Students Against Poverty (Daltaí inEadan Bochtannas)

by SAP Supporter Wed Aug 24, 2005 01:00

"Why post your info in Irish when there are no Irish speakers in the School or area which are going on that bus?"

I live a few estates away from the meanscoil (west belfast). I know more than a few people in my school who only speak Irish(I dont go to the meanscoil/bunscoil).

What you said about the Irish language use in sectarianism is true, just like the Red hand of Ulster is taken as a religious divide, but realise that it isn't in all cases.

My brother and a few of my friends are members of SAP and have already pointed out to me and others that the organisation isn't sectarian.


Good luck to Sean and SAP. I hope to be joining you all very soon ;-D.

by sean Fri May 27, 2005 15:22

i never said that west belfast was an all irish speaking area, i said that theren was an all irish speaking area in it. Its called Gaeltacht Bothar seoighe and contains around 30 houses. To be honest i think your looking into this a little too deeply. The reality is we used a tiny bit of irish to aknoiwledge the fact that some of our members spoke it as their first language. thats all. You have an obvious ignorance of west belfast, and the irish language. Check your facts

by Dublin Non-believer Thu May 26, 2005 20:38

If you speak Irish as your main language and others do then I've no problem with using it. Irish should be used to communicate and not to be used as a sectarian badge. West Belfast is not a Gaeltacht area. Some people may speak it. That doesn't make it an Irish language area. To claim that West Belfast is a Gaeltacht is to be sectarian in my opinion as it is trying to make Protestants appear as a seperate ethnic group that don't have access to Irish.

by Seán mitchell - sap Thu May 26, 2005 18:12

Are you some sort of idiot. The Irish language is the language i was brought up in as it is for others in the group. There is an all irish speaking area within west belfast in which many of my family live. But by your logic we should hide the fact that some of our members speak irish as their first language so that no one thinks we are sectarian catholics. Im sorry i offended you so much with that vast amount of irish language that i used. ill make sure to confine my usage an chead ur eile, i mean the next time

by Duine Thu May 26, 2005 15:02

An Ghaeilge=caitliceach=náisiúnach?

Béarla= duine nach caitliceach = duine nach náisiúnach ???????

Cad eile?

Araibis = muslamach = antoisceach ?

duine gorm = duine iarrtha tearmainn = caimiléir???????

Ó! Nach saonta an saol!!!

by Dublin Non-believer Thu May 26, 2005 11:55

I would raise the question of Catholic sectarianism. Why post your info in Irish when there are no Irish speakers in the School or area which are going on that bus? I would suggest that it is a latent Catholic sectarianism in this case. Most of the time Irish is used in a sectarian way by Irish nationalists. I have no problem with Irish (or anyother language) being used to communicate. But I do have a problem with SF sectarianism. Gerry Adams uses the Irish language to differentiate himself and his party from Ulster protestants. Sinn Fein have played the key role in sectarianising the Irish language. They try to paint Irish as a thing for Catholics only. Largely due to provisional Sinn Féin Irish was adopted by many as a badge of Ulster Catholic sectarianism. I don't think that "Dublin Protestant" can be accused of sectarianism. Remember all though his/her life s/he has probably been painted as not fully "Irish" due to his/her religion. That's Catholic sectarianism and it's alive and well in this country.

by Another Dublin protestant Wed May 25, 2005 19:29

They provided a translation of the title - I'm sure Douglas Hyde or Yeats and maybe even O'Casey would have had no problem with this. Why are you trying to sectarianise the Irish language?

by Dublin Protestant Wed May 25, 2005 18:48

What's the story with the use of the Irish Language in the title. Initially I thought that this was a bus going from an Irish language school or from a Gaeltacht area. But it's not. So why are you using Irish? It's obviously not to communicate. It must be that you are making a political point?

by Davy Carlin Wed May 25, 2005 16:43

D is me

by D Wed May 25, 2005 16:34

Sorry Mindset - You are wrong -

by seifo mo Wed May 25, 2005 15:09

Shame on you D. You leave a message then you leave a message as the ananymous "SS supporter". Check out the times the 2 messages were left. You actually left a message claiming to be some one else supporting you.

LOOOSSSER!!!!!!

by SS Supporter Tue May 24, 2005 17:39

D and street scene must really bug you. I went to there website and have got the paper i wouldnt call anything there thatcharite. You remind me of paxman and galloway. can you not at least congratulate the sap instead of pushing your agenda.
d and John seem to be involved in every campaign going what are you up to other than critisising. shame on you.

by D Tue May 24, 2005 17:38

SAP - spot on - and well said.

Also to {R - the mindset} -

Yaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnn.

by R Tue May 24, 2005 17:03

There you go D (still with the same mindset - attack the left more than attacking the establishment btw you haven't mentioned when your book is due out).
On Thatcherism, Tim is right, which is why I picked up on it. If you read what Street Seen stands for it does sound like Thatcher talking about small business's : "Street Seen … gives homeless people a hand up not a hand out, empowering them through their own actions. Helping the homeless help themselves is one of the key principles behind Street Seen breaking people from dependency, offering an alternative to begging or crime. It allows people to make choices and develops their self-esteem. It provides empowerment; money they have earned through hard graft … teaches vendors how to run their own business… homeless people are elevated above the traditional hand out culture. "
Sorry but "traditional hand out culture" is part of the lexicon of the right, as is "run their own business" etc.
Despite the well intentioned aims of street seen - the politics is dubious and ends up parroting the statements of those opposed to radical change.
Having said all that, its not much of a model if it is only printed once every 3 or so months. When is the new issue out? Or do the homeless have to sell The Big Issues to obtain a regular income?

by sap Tue May 24, 2005 17:01

For clarification there is 1 SP member and 1swp member in SAP. Thats out of 50 members. Its not like were bein swamped. Of course every organisation that comes across us wishes to have us involved with them. If SP SWP Grassroots or wat ever wishes to help us out then fine. You may think that were naieve and being used but its more like were using them as they havent gained a single thing from us. If members wish to join SWP SP etc then thats ok too, thats there choice. We have recieved offers to attend SWP and Dissent meetings. As well as an amusing attempt by the SP to recruit the whole organisation in one big patronising inncident. We decided as an organisation to stay out of all these meetings.

by D Tue May 24, 2005 10:17

'You say you have no practical experience of SAP but previously you talk of the 'party mindsets involved in it' -

I know that certain mindsets of the SWP and SP are involved - nuff said

And as for your reply to me R and my pounts on Party Mindset - All I can say to the objective viewer is that of 'see what I mean'.

Again any one wishing to get involved in Street Seen contact John above, myself or Mark Grehan in the South.

Keep up the Good work SAP and we will meet up with more of youse soon. D

by Jon Glackin - Street Seen Tue May 24, 2005 01:08 streetseen at hotmail dot co dot uk 07743275533

Congratulations to all involved with getting the SAP bus on the road! Hopefully we will meet up again on the 4th June at the Make Poverty History Rally in Belfast....
The build up to the G8 this year is looking better than ever, lets not let those who would like to divide us succeed...the fools always try!!
As someone said here before...'Were on the one road.....

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................

M / R or Tim: This is getting tiresome! A lot of threads recently on Indy have been attempted to be derailed by nameless Trolls....This is turning into another one...

Your rabid sectarianism has got the better of yourself once again...you really should be more careful!!!
Or at least have a chill pill !
For example.....
I dont believe Davy made mention of any socialist papers... why have you?

Then a ridiculous term I have heard only once before describing Street Seen as 'Thatcherite' appears......

Now where did I hear that before....

Street Seen
by Tim - Not in one Thursday, Apr 21 2005, 1:10pm
Yep it's hardly left wing - in fact the politics of the paper (not contributors) come across as Thatcherite.
Doh!
c/f: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69472&search_text=make%20poverty%20history
....................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Once again fair play to Students Against Poverty in getting the bus on the road...lets hope its the first of many!!!

by R Mon May 23, 2005 23:00

You say you have no practical experience of SAP but previously you talk of the 'party mindsets involved in it'. You don't really know. Think of your own 'mindset'.
Trawling through some of your postings you boast of the success of street seen - but your link points to an issue that is nearly 3 months old. The socialist papers you sneer at produce more regular issues and without the thatcherite rationale that street seen has.

by Davy Carlin Mon May 23, 2005 19:44

Hello Sean,

Party Mindset {M rings of it - the bite} - I do not have time to go into it but I have covered it extensively -

-my points on party mindsets {SWP and SP}can be found trawling through either this site or the wider web under the name Davy carlin - I was a long term member of the SWP and know 'exactly' how they organise as I do the SP.

I do provide but a few links below..

As Stated I have no problems with students organising but do have problems with some Party mindsets’ - as is my right to do so.-

Finally while relatives are in the group {who all live in West Belfast like my self} - and with myself being supportive of it -with work and various other activists commitments I unfortunately cannot make any of the Students against poverty meetings.

However although I do not have any practical experience of SAP I do try and keep my hand in - and I am involved in other Anti Poverty Work -

I am chair of The Northern Ireland {MPH} Make Poverty History {of its Events Committee} which is both organising the Belfast June 4th mass rally Against Poverty - as well as organising several buses to the G8, I am also on the editorial collective of Street Seen - the North’s own anti poverty paper - link. -

http://www.streetseennews.blogspot.com/

So I am in full support of your cause - but as stated I do have - as many do - problems- with the 'party Mindset - of some, which fortunatley you have not as yet come across as such groups have been 'Moved' - presently- to attempt to work differently

. All the best mate - keep up the good work. Have to get back to work - Signing off D

by ire Mon May 23, 2005 10:56

Enough of these "Consciousness Raising" exercises...

by Seán Mitchell - SAP Sun May 22, 2005 19:14

If you have a problem with "party mindsets" or whatever you want to call it,within SAP, then speak up. Whats the point in bringing up the subject and not clarifying it. Maybe your comments will be a helpful insight for us all. Or maybe it wont be, seen as despite having relatives in the group you didnt attend one SAP event, and therefore have no experience of it.

by M Sat May 21, 2005 21:05

Al - these are school students from Belfast (we don't have the Euro) and they hail from a fairly deprived area. Nevertheless fundraising for a political event is a way of spreading the message.
The only mindset appears to be from you D - its the mindset of someone itching to have a go at the party you used to be a member of.

by Al Sat May 21, 2005 12:22

You dontated so students could go on a nice trip? The money donated not actually doing anything for those in poverty? Students cant afford 15 a head? Give me a break. I was in college, I was not starving or dying from lack of alcohol and I see more than one or two students getting legless at the weekend, in fact how many will be out paying 5 euro a pint today and watching the match?

by D Sat May 21, 2005 11:01

Not to sure what tune you are talking about

I had said previous on this site that a number of my young relatives {whom have spoke to me in relation to this} are also involved in this project .

I do have problems with some of the party mindsets involved in it {for their own reasons}but not with the students who know what they are about.

Will go into all the G8 stuff in an article after the G8.

No doubt I will also find out in time what and who is doing the 'knife rounds' in such party mindset circles. - presently - {It usually changes every few weeks - so i'll put the word out }

by supporter of MPH Fri May 20, 2005 17:17

The campaign title is supposed to be a slogan, rather than a plan of action.
The three main issues it deals with are
Trade Justice - eg developing countries' farmers not being forced to open their markets while rich countries continue to protect theirs;
Drop the Debt - to give developing countries a chance to achieve the poverty reduction that they have begun working on;
More and Better Aid - to make sure countries, like Ireland, don't break their promises to increase aid, and to look at quality of aid, eg making sure it is not tied to security spending, war on terror, etc.
see http://www.makepovertyhistory.ie
http://www.makepovertyhistory-ni.org
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org for more
It might sound like an empty slogan but at least it's catchy - the same groups have been banging on about this for years but now they have a handful of celebrities and they have decided to exploit the opportunities of 2005 (eg G8 so close to home) to make some noise and hopefully get people on the streets.
Check out the websites for more concrete actions.

by julie Fri May 20, 2005 13:41

What exactly is the "initiative"? Make Poverty history sounds more like a slogan than a plan of action.

by wendy Fri May 20, 2005 10:49

Why what was Ds first opinion on SAP

by M Fri May 20, 2005 10:06

Well done. Its the first bus to be filled from Belfast. (D has changed his tune a bit on SAP)

by D Thu May 19, 2005 19:29

Good job - these students organised this under the banner of Make Poverty History - Students Against Poverty.

And such initiatves should be welcomed and supported.

by (required) Thu May 19, 2005 18:04

how about getting a job?

by Guesser Thu May 19, 2005 17:54

One solution, Revolution.

by curious Thu May 19, 2005 17:51

Everyones against poverty surely? Or do you have some specific solution?

by Duine Thu May 19, 2005 17:13

Go n-éirí libh ag an gOcht!!