Colombia 3 proved Innocent, but still not free

by naive Wed May 26, 2004 14:30

What the hell where they doing there in the first place, travelling around rebel territory on fake passports. There's no smoke with out fire and what these guys where up to stinks to high heaven. The columbians have the right to do whatever they want to these scum it's their country.

by Tufty Wed May 26, 2004 19:33 ezl at eircom dot net

I have no truck with the "scum" comments above but I do have a some questions which haven't been answered.

It is bizarre to suggest it is safer to travel under fake names using false passports "to protect the peace process". That is rubbish. Why were they really doing this?

To follow on, they felt the need to use fake passports, so they obviously felt there "legitimate" presence in Columbia was unwanted. Why? And what were they doing?

The observers to the trial felt there was no problem travelling legitimately to Columbia. I agree the current regime is dangerous and very right-wing but a broad spectrum of Irish people travelling to the trial of a clearly anti-goverment and unpopular trio felt perfectly safe.

I'm prepared to consider any reasonable comments or possible answers to these questions. I have yet to see any that satisfy me.

by a.k.a. Thu May 27, 2004 13:00

If you haven't watched it from the beginning and can't say anything relevant then don't.
They're acquited. Using fake ID is very very normal in third world countries,especially if you're known as political activists. Using fake ID is very normal. If you think it's shock horror the other side of civilisation, then the closest you've got the real world has been a Jehovah Witness mag put through your door.
How do youthink third worlders survive in europe? false ID.
How do you think 17year olds get a drink in th USA? false ID.

now bring them home and dont go back to the beginnings of the campaign.

by Tufty Thu May 27, 2004 14:53

If you have strength in your beliefs you should be able to have an open and honest debate.

You should also consider that those you debate with may have more experience than you realise.

You shouldn't be afraid to go "back to the beginning of the campaign" if you can justify your beliefs.

I have used fake ID to buy drink in the USA when I worked there illegally. I should point out I travelled there on a legal passport. The relationship between the two types of ID is not relevant.

On my regular travels through Africa, including some of the most right wing and corrupt regimes in the world, I used my legal passport. I travel though Zambia, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Mozambique, South Africa, Kenya. My political leanings are very clear from my writing and my thoughts are deeply unpopular - especially in Zimbabwe. It is still safer to travel under my Irish passport as it affords me the immediate protection of the Irish state and leaves no question mark over my reasons for being there.

You haven't explained why they were travelling under fake names and passports. and you haven't explained why there were there.

I'm not saying they were up to no good. I don't know. I'd like to know. It was very very foolish to travel anywhere on a false passport and it makes me suspicous.

by a.k.a. iosaf Thu May 27, 2004 16:16

in a civil war zone. They are members of the Irish Republican movement, SF to be precise, and an such are beyond my remit as english language spokesperson and theorist.
I may have consistently expressed our solidarity "over here" and "over there" with not only the Columbia 3 but all prisoners in the Uribe Regime. I have also read most of the statements and releases which are available to peruse here (imc eire) and in español (imc latin america) and moved from my first position that the men "be brought home to face trial or otherwise, just get Irish citizens home" to "bring them back now please".

The situation now, as far as I understand it, is that Columbia is more obviously in civil war than at any stage, and that that war is now proven to be fueled by decisions made in Europe as well as the USA. I understand that the left, liberal, bolivarian socialists as well as liberation theologists support regime change, and that the country is unsafe for Irish citizens.

bring them home.

by iosaf Thu May 27, 2004 17:33

sorry. Why not ask them when you get them back? It just seems obvious to me now that right wign elements in Europe are using this case for geo-political advantage. And I remember writing I'll stick with anything Paul Hill says on this. So bring 'em home. And the taoiseach and foreign minister have belatedly joined that call. If you want to "go back to the beginning" then _do so_ but do it "_there_", on those articles, on those threads.
You search, you upload the page and you add your comment.

by Tufty Fri May 28, 2004 12:57

I've nothing to add but I do appreciate the responses. They offer so much more help and information than more recognised media.

by paddy whack Thu Dec 16, 2004 18:36 paddywhack at mickmack dot ir

Sinn Fein Math Class

Gerry McCabe Killers: 4
Colombia Three: 3
--------------------------
Total Jailed: 7

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1216/colombia.html

"Three Irishmen initially acquitted of training Marxist rebels in Colombia have now been jailed for more than 17 years following an appeal."

Happy Christmas, Gerry!

by redjade Thu Dec 16, 2004 20:36

Photo series:
Outside Department Of Foreign Affairs
Dublin @ 2.30
Saturday March 15th 2003

series one → http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?id=34990
series two → http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?id=34993

the 'Bring Them Home' Campaign

by Barry Thu Dec 16, 2004 20:45

I dont support sinn Fein in the slightest but these men have been acquitted. The case against them has been proven to be largely a stitch up. There is a strong possibility they are being used as political pawns.

Please God theyll be home with their families soon.

by Tom Thu Dec 16, 2004 22:08

I support the peace process. Even a flawed peace and the endless talking and procrastination, not to mention childish behavior, is far preferable than the decades of terror and counter terror that went before. "Jaw Jaw not War War" as Churchill said. But enough already with the hypocrisy. Can Sinn Fein and the IRA not try a little integrity for a change, even if it goes against the rub?

I've just watched a Sinn Fein mouthpiece bleating on Sky News about the political trial and the miscarriage of justice of the new sentence. For what its worth I think she was probably right but as with all Sinn Fein pronouncements on the peace process, to fully empathise and feel outraged requires one to suspend disbelief and ignore the elephant in the corner of the room.

If one of the most experienced bomb makers in Europe, an active terrorist and a member of their organisation's political wing acting as guide and translator enter a warzone under false names and consort with narco terrorists who, co-incidentally or no, suddenly start producing improvised mortars more or less identical to those that the said bomb maker personally developed for the IRA, should we be surprised if they land up to their ears in it if caught.

To accept that they were "monitoring the peace process" is stretching credulity just too far. Yes, the case against them was weak. Yes, there is a fair chance they were stitched up and yes, they would definitely not have been convicted here on such evidence but do they deserve the level of support they are getting?

No! And were it not for the ability of the Sinn Fein publicity machine they would be left to rot, deservedly. The acid test is that if they were members of the UDA or UVF would anyone give a shit? No answer needed.

I have seen Sinn Fein's concept of justice up close and personal. I have seen street junkies in Dublin who have had their kneecaps shattered with hammers and drills and, admittedly very rarely, firearms. No appeals, legal aid, publicity. Even the junkies were rarely capable of emotion about it. And Ive seen how the dealers and godfathers were left in peace because they had either paid up or were too well armed themselves. I knew at the time some of the Sinn Fein members who participated in this actively and denied knowledge afterwards.

The murderers of Detective Garda Jerry Mc Cabe are another case in point. Responsible at the time for over half the armed robberies in Munster, they had become famous for their disregard for life, regularly discharging firearms in post offices and banks full of pensioners. The two policement were given no notice, chance, right of appeal. Just executed. The four heroes, who have lived in the Midlands Prison in the lap of luxury since, were on a solo run in Adare. Personal profit was the motive, not politics. And the people of Ireland are expected to tolerate the humiliation of their release and the Provos cant bear to have a photo taken?

I hate them all. I hate what they've done and what they stand for but I could live with them in Government if they could stop the hypocrisy. Everyone knows Adams and Mc Guinness are members of the IRA Army Council. Yet they deny it. Why? That and all the other denials give excuses to the bigots who want to maintain the status quo. How about a genuine commitment to peace from the Provos, one and all and lets move on? Without the Columbia 3.

by Barry Fri Dec 17, 2004 00:55

Bitter as a Ballymena orange.
Give it a rest for f***s sake, youre pathetic.

by rooster Fri Dec 17, 2004 02:56

"This is a huge blow to the families of these three men who never expected this decision. Coming in the month of Christmas it will be especially difficult for the 8 children of the three men."

BUt what about the children blown up in Omagh? ESpecially the two unborn twins who did'nt even see one Christmas!
Or Jean McBrides children who must have asked every Christmas "where's my mummy"

by Clever Boy Fri Dec 17, 2004 16:35

What about them rooster. Both cases you mentioned were absolutely terrible, disgraceful and utterly inhumane. However if you are saying that because of these two separate incidents that the colombia 3 should be thrown into prison (and certain death) then you have no concept of the meaning of Justice.

by rooster Fri Dec 17, 2004 22:21

not so clever boy, how is it certain death?

Try not to be so melodramatic, they committed a crime in a foriegn country, they deserve to be tried and sentenced in that country.
If a country has a dubious justice system
(and which ones don't)

THEN MAYBE THE INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST SHOULD AVOID THAT COUNTRY.

by pat c Sun Dec 19, 2004 20:12

"THEN MAYBE THE INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST SHOULD AVOID THAT COUNTRY."

good man! glad to see that you want to keep the US armed forces out of columbia.

by Paul cahill Thu Feb 03, 2005 15:57

Listen has anyone been thinking of what the families are going through at the moment!! those men are fathers husband brothers uncles cousins to families i dont think that people relise how hard it must be to be for the families who are reading this stuff on the net on mags and the newspapers i think people should be a bit more sympathetic to the families they must be going through a terrible time at the moment. It certainly isnt easy on them to hear their husband and fathers being called scum and that the columbian government should be allowed to do as they please. Columbia is one of the worlds most corupt countries, im not saying its not suspicious that those men were there but how would other families feel if they were faced with the same situation.

by mise Thu Feb 03, 2005 16:06

listen paul ur wasting ur breath with this lot - theyd' rather see michael stone running around, kevin fullertons the lot of them

by Sligo Republican Socialist Thu Feb 03, 2005 20:14

Rooster said: "THEN MAYBE THE INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST SHOULD AVOID THAT COUNTRY."

But they rule Colombia Rooster. They are called the Colombian Government and Colombian Military, armed and trained and financed by the US Government. Did you not know that?