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Crunch meeting on Labour Party row

category sligo | miscellaneous | news report author Wednesday October 29, 2003 09:37author by Allen - lp Report this post to the editors

The transfer saga of former Fine Gael Alderman Jim McGarry to Labour could take a fresh twist this week. A crunch meeting of the party’s constituency council on Thursday evening in the Trades club is due to consider the decision of the West Ward’s branch to accept him into the party.

The branch accepted the councillor’s application to join on a 7-6 vote. But a previous meeting of the constituency council voted to defer Councillor McGarry’s request to join until after next year’s local elections. Councillor Declan Bree has sent a letter to all members claiming that the future of the party is at stake. Councillor Bree said the had been contacted by a number of members who believe that McGarry does not share Labour values. However party bosses have told local activists to toe the line in a statement issued last week. Party members have been urged to accept Councillor McGarry’s arrival. All activists have been told to accept the democratic decision of the branch. They have been urged to set aside differences and work towards increasing the party’s vote in the forthcoming local elections. Councillor Bree declined to comment on the national executive’s call to toe the line ahead of Thursday night’s meeting.

However he said the statement would not allay fears about Councillor McGarry’s membership. Meanwhile Councillor McGarry said he was not holding grudges against any members in Labour. He said he was looking forward to working to maximise the party’s vote in the local elections. He said he had to toe the FG party line in some votes which went against his natural leanings.

author by B&B - lab. memberpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Surely the Labour Party now has a duty and an obligation to the people who support it, to explain why a party which claims to be of the left would welcome a politician like Jimmy McGarry into its ranks. Where do the Labour councillors stand on this issue? What about a bit of openness and transparency from the Labour Party.

author by John D - Sligopublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I am proud of the fact that I have campaigned for, canvassed for, and voted for the Labour Party. It's a Party I have been proud off.
While no party is perfect I have particularly admired Labour representatives like Michael D Higgins, Joe Costello, our own Declan Bree and others, people who hold Labour values and who are not afraid to take a stand on issues and who always stand by their principles. Having watched Alderman McGarry's in his role as councillor over the years it is obvious that his outlook and values are far from the socialist values of the Labour Party. If his membership of the Labour Party is ratified how can I be expected to campaign for the Party in future

author by leave labourpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 13:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Labour Party is a capitalist party. If there is anyone left in the Labour Party that considers themselves socialist or that wish to stand up for the working class it is time they made the break and left the party.

The Labour Party is the party of coalitions, partnership, cutbacks, bin tax and sell outs.

author by patpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 14:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

For many left members of the LP, it is the loyalty to the party that keeps them there. If they were to leave, the party would move more to the right.

author by Labour Loverpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 14:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Constituency Council has no role in deciding on membership. Those are the rules so nobody has ganged up on anybody. The National Executive is merely upholding the rules. Anybody who joins the party is expected to abide by its policies and vote accordingly in the future. The Labour Party has been bedevilled by dominant local bosses who think they can control everything in theor constituency, following from the introduction of one member one vote real democracy now exists in the organisation.

author by Dpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 15:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Cllr. McGarry is hardly an ordinary member, he's an elected councillor who for over 15years was a member of a conservative right-wing party, who voted against most labour policies in this period, and who in recent months voted against labour on such topical issues such as privatisation, bin charges, war in Iraq. This is the same McGarry that was going to run for the PDs in the 2002 general election, but pulled out at the last minute.

On top of this, the only reason why he left FG was not because of their politics but instead beacuse they wouldn't support him as Mayor in last years mayoral election.

The constituency council represents the view of all the members from Sligo and Leitrim, not just one branch. The branch in questiononly voted by a majority of one to let McGarry in.

The question has to be asked, What would happen if tomorrow a party branch decided to let CJ Haughey become a member of LP? If a branch and soley a branch has this power, then there should be certain criteria. Or maybe an other procedure for entry of elected reps, as in Sligo.

The reason why the Constituency Council and most labour members in the constituency don'T want Cllr. McGarry is due to his past, his politics, he lack of socialist principles or any principles at that.

The national exectutive in Dublin, may have endorsed his membership, but they forget that the Sligo organisation is in many ways distinct from other areas who may be willing to put up with directions from Dublin, many of the members have remained since the merged independant socilist organisation, members where principles actually still matter.

Overall these members feel it is better for the LP to go out and work on the ground to elect strong socilaist candidates rather than taking the easy option. an option now beingn proposed by some Sligo members and supported by HQ that they co-opt a former blueshirt so that LP has an extra Councillor on Sligo Town Council!

author by pat - ex-labpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 15:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Rabbitt it seems has no problems with people of the Caliber of McGarry entering the party, from reading the Pheonix this week!

I doubt this would have happened under Mr. R. Quinn....but mind you much of this is the worth of the great socialist Pat Maigner...

author by pat cpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 15:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

What do you want, the NEC to undemocratically overturn the decision of the local branch? Whats at issue here is procedure. Declan Bree certainly has a good Socialist record but, as has been pointed out previously, maybe he brought some Stalinist habits with him.

If the Sligo Supreme Soviet, oops I mean Constituency Council, want to change the rules then they should submit an amendment to the Labour Party constitution at the next ADC. Maybe they will convince the party to airbrush this nasty ex FG out of the party history.

Should the party constitution out the window because you dont like this persons politics?

author by Fpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 15:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Labour is a broad church comprising everyone from old cpi people to blarite social democrats. Thats why we're still the only party in Irish politics with a snowballs chance of implementing socialist/ social democratic policies as members of government. A previous poster has made snide remarks about Pat Magnier, well fair play to Pat, he was behind a lot of the moves to fuck the trots out of the party in the late 80s and get us into power where could make a real difference to real peoples lives.

If you join the Labour party you wont be forced to bleat out pre written speeches at branch meetings, you wont be forced to hand over a % of your income every month, you wont be forced to attend 'ideology lectures', and basically burn yourself out before the age of 20 so that you turn your back on politics never to return. Unlike the Socialist Party, or 'Militant' as we used to know them.

Bree, like a lot of long standing TDs and Cllrs is (justifiably) wary of new people joining the party who might potentially challenge their own positions. That doesnt mean we should tear up the rule book the last thing we need is for an existing 'ward boss' culture to be enshrined in the rules.

author by Seamuspublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 16:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It is should be obvious for members of the LP in Sligo, that a number of members in their own organisation and the national executive do not share the same values and principles. No socialists would vote to accept or endorse the likes of Cllr. McGarry into the party. IF they were real socialist then they should leave the party.

I very much doubt whether the SP or Greens would have him in their party, I also doubt that the FF organisation in Sligo would have such a loose cannon in their party either.

Even if he gets nominated and elected as a Lab. Councillor, i give him less that 12 months in the party before he leaves because he can't become mayor or he dosn't get a nice cushy seat on the health board or another body.

Then the LP in Sligo will be a laughing stock, if they aren't already now. I'm sure SF and MR. Sean McManus are loving this!

author by damien - lppublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 16:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If ever evidence was required to illustrate how far the Labour Party has strayed from its roots, surely the recent admission of Councillor Jim McGarry into membership provides the proof.

In fairness to Councillor McGarry he was never shy in nailing his colours to the mast. He not only supported, he championed the right wing and conservative views of his colleagues in Fine Gael and Fianna Fail. Voting for service charges and voting for the privatisation of the refuse service came naturally to him.

In fact the only real difficulty Councillor McGarry had with his Fine Gael colleagues was the fact that they would not support him for the position of Mayor and for appointment to various local authority committees.

Councillor McGarry is not to blame for the present upheaval in the local Labour Party. If anyone is to take the blame surely it lies with those labour members who have either abandoned their principles or who are unable to tell the difference between left and right.

One has only to look at Tony Blair's new Labour in the UK to see what happens when principles are jettisoned for the sake of expediency

author by Degeneratepublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 16:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Should the party constitution (go) out the window because you dont like this persons politics? "

In a political party the answer is surely yes.

author by Dpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 16:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I doubt much people in the LP actually like Mr. Magnier. A man with no principles and no conection with the real members!

author by Januspublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 16:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

While letting McGarry into their party is an act of unparalleled stupidity, they should be allowed do it as they have followed their procedures.

The branch voted (The size of the margin is irrelevant) to admit him. This decision was confirmed by the party nationally. The Constituency Council, bizarrely, doesn't seem to have a roll in this matter. Therefore, McGarry applied and by Labour rules and regulations he has been approved as a member.

Whether they should have done this or not is a completely different matter. (They shouldn't) The simple truth is that he has passed the democratic procedures to be a member of the Labour party and their membership in Sligo should get used to the idea or leave if they're that pissed off.

author by Peterpublication date Wed Oct 29, 2003 18:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why all the fuss about this Blueshirt joining Labour in Sligo. Sure won't these parties be in government together again somtime in the future

author by pat cpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Peter has made the best point yet: Labour will inevitably end up in government with FG again. During the last Lab/FG government Declan Bree managed to swallow his bile and stay in the LP. So why is one ex FG joining a local branch such a problem?

author by allenpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The arguments above make the asumption that FG and Lab are the same....

There is a huge difference in going into coalition government and welcoming a former PD and elected FG member into your party. Although many people within the LP dissagree with coalition government, that can be seen from conference motions, the reality is the we have a mulit-party system. This is a better alternative than the British´electoral system. This system is a reality in many other countries where social democrates, communists and greens have been in coalition governments for decades.

Ideally labour would like to be a majority party but this is very unlikley. So they have to face the fact that they will never be in govn. and they will never have any of our polices implemented. A FG, FF, PD government for 20 years is ´the other alternative.

But that really isn't the point here. It is about a section of the LP, the Sligo organisation, willing to make a stand on issues of principle. For many menembers now the problem is will they leave the party and split the socialist organisation in Sligo. The only strong socialist organisation west of the Shannon. Its not that they are afraid of new members, as the sligo organisation has been one of the more progressive and expanding organisations in the country. It is simply that these people have been working with and fought against Mr. McGarry for 15 years and it detests them having somone with his track record and decitfull character in their proud organisation.

Although people say Labour is a broad church, which is a positive thing at times. But what we have here is the extremes of this broad church coming together. The members of the old independant socialist organisation at one end and on the right a former blueshirt with no socialist ideology what so ever.

author by Paddypublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 14:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

While these Sligo shenanigans are exercising the minds of Labours 'Left', the most ferocious battle for years is being waged by working class communities in Dublin ie the anti bin charges campaign. And where are the Labour 'Left' when it comes to this crucial class battle, nowhere to be seen, not a squeek. For example nine people from Finglas jailed in October (only two of whom were political activists) and not a word from the Labour Cllr, TD or MEP who are supposed to represent the area. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that many of the so-called lefts in Labour, with a few honourable exceptions, are just wind bags, all talk and no action. And before you go on an anti-trot rant, yes they have made many mistakes, and should be criticised for them, but if you are not even involved in the campaign, your criticism counts for nothing.

If you are serious, make the break, leave the rotten mess, and help build a genuine mass socialist party, encompassing all the radical left.

author by Dpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

you have a good point, this is an option for them in Sligo!

I think that Lab. members in Sligo sympatise with Dubliners on this issue, they know only to well. The LP in Sligo has always opposed bin charges and privatisation. however due the conservative parties on the council and with the help of Cllr. McGarry, these services were privatised in Sligo where they now face annual charges of over €500.

author by Labour Loverpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As Pat C points out Bree could support the party line on Europe, Maastricht, Northern Ireland, SDLP, Amsterdam, Nice 1&2, PfP, Rapid Reaction Force and a host of other issues but suddenly the issue of one member joining is a great principle...give us a break

author by John Dpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Knowbody in Dublin raised an eyebrow when the Sligo refeuse service was privatised and we were forced to Pay €540 a year!

Not much was said when SF voted for services charges and the following year voted to increase them!

author by Degeneratepublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You may be a Labour lover but you are no lover of labour.

author by Jimpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Your ignorance is breathtaking.

The anti-bin tax campaigners at every opportunity have shown that they care for the costs people are paying in the country. We have repeatedly pointed out the increase in prices throughout the country and how the service is being privatised.

And ask any member of SF whether non-SF people in the campaign have had anything to say about Sligo and I'm sure you will find out that we have.

author by John Dpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The LP in Sligo was fighthing this battle two years ago. The conservative parties were very cute and privatised the services!

author by Dpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Sligo labour party was the only organisation to publically canvass against Nice and Amsterdam, After motions were passed at Constituency council level.

at party conferences over the years that organisation has put fwd motion in exactly the areas pat c mentions above such as neutrality, pfp and the North. I most cases they were defeated.

In the 1990s Bree was nearly expelled from the party for continued statements on the North, while at the party conference last may he was quoted in the media as saying that the SDLP never struck him as a socialist party, when proposing a motion on Labour becoming a 32 county party. I believe that motion was passed!

From what i know, the LP is not anti-neutrality, pro-pfp or ERF. Even the European question is not wholey supported by the membership, opinion poles at the time of Nice support this.

author by Jimpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

How did ye fight it?

author by John Dpublication date Thu Oct 30, 2003 15:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

One the streets, in the council chamber, in the media.

Protests, public meetings, petitions!

Once the majority decison was made at the Council meeting, that was it, a privatised service.

I don't think the general public thought it would cost so much,

author by Dublinerpublication date Fri Oct 31, 2003 13:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Not much was said when SF voted for services charges and the following year voted to increase them! "

Have you been on this site in the past year? Have you not been at public meeting in which Sligo is continually mentioned (including SF's role in it BTW)?

Of course people in Dublin do not want to see cuts and double taxes on people from outside of Dublin. An attack on public services in Sligo, Limerick, Cork or whereever is an attack on us all.

But I am in Dublin now, there are some practical difficulties for me to oppose the bin tax in Sligo. The bin tax is in Dublin and I am fighting it here. If the bin tax is defeated in Dublin it could well be revoked in towns such as Sligo, this is what happened in the water tax.

Don't allow yourself to be caught up in the governments divide and rule tactics of turning Dublin against the rest of the country. A win for Dublin workers is a win for all workers!

author by dirt bregadepublication date Fri Nov 07, 2003 14:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Its nice to be talking about votes taken at meetings of the Sligo Labour Prty constituency council. It begs the question ,how was that figure put together, who voted and who had a right to vote on the night. It would be interesting to know that and the affect it had on the outcome of the vote that was taken. Many people have heard romours about this and have asked that question. However this has remained clocked in secrecy, is there something to hide or what?

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