Tree Walk in Eyre Square Galway.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:51

"Point is Pat the Green PARTY are just like leftist parties (that you criticise on a fairly regular basis), there's nothing GREEN about them being pro-double taxation."

There is a false "greeness", the cynical opportunists like brollachain pretend its to save the enviornment when its really about extracting more tax from ordinary people.

under Green Party bin taxes Millionare Ciaran Cuffe and Self employed computer consultants would pay the same fees as a bin man!

The Green Party want a flat tax (based on weight) on refuse no matter what your income.

They also want a flat income tax! a shop assistant would pay the same rate as michael o'leary! even in the US only fringe right wingers support the idea of a flat rate of income tax.

"It's more a matter of class and reformism. Tagging on all this bollox about people before trees just alienates rev. eco. types."

there are some eco types who want to force us all to go back to nature. they are just as much enemies of the working class as fascists are.

by Sylvia Pankhurst - Eco. Soc. Tue Sep 16, 2003 21:58

"trees and cuddly animals are more important than the struggles of working people."

Go to the Secret Book and Record Store, buy a copy of the latest Do or Die (which is incidentally biocentrist to a large degree), see the Labour movement heartlands where there were anti-roads camps. There isn't this dicthomony (sp????)between "trees" and "the struggles of working people."
Hey look at the rambling movement in the 1930ies, back in the days of good ol' workerism ; )

by Sylvia Pankhurst - Ecology Society Tue Sep 16, 2003 21:51

"You tell me, you are the one who raised it. When did i ever support Sligo SF or the others who chickened out on Mar 1?"

Point is Pat the Green PARTY are just like leftist parties (that you criticise on a fairly regular basis), there's nothing GREEN about them being pro-double taxation. It's more a matter of class and reformism. Tagging on all this bollox about people before trees just alienates rev. eco. types. Incidentally people should be prepared to make sacrifices for the good of sustainability, not cause trees are more important than people, but because people need somewhere to live. Bin charges is not about that, bin charges is about double taxation on PAYE workers.

by pat c Tue Sep 16, 2003 17:17

http://www.iol.ie/~niallob/recycle.html
"5. The introduction of a weight related waste collection charge with free collection for minimum weight of waste per annum per person in a household. This would reward efforts made at household level to reduce the amount of waste presented for collection. "

Very nice of Niall. The deserving poor who make efforts would be rewarded! This is typical middle class Green condescension.

Shove it! We wont pay any of your local charges! No double taxation!

by pat c Tue Sep 16, 2003 16:45

Sylvia
"Pat that's a false dicthonomy (Sp???) o.k. say division...Eyre Square as I have pointed out and as anyone who has ever been in Galway knows is an amenity for the PEOPLE. Likewise people need trees (small thing called global warming, you might have heard)."

You are picking me up wrong. To some Greens, trees and cuddly animals are more important than the struggles of working people.
you could also have a sense of proportion. if those particular trees go it is not going be the death knell for the world.
"The Green party is a reformist outfit, with little in the way of any notion of transcending capitalist society, and zero class anaylsis - that's it's problem, not eco heads putting trees before people or any similar such nonsense."

Agree withe the 1st part above, but their problem is also that they have a lot of airheads who do put trees before people.

And also opportunists like Brollachain whos dishonest about his support for bin charges.

"Kindly tell me the difference on this between the Green party in Dublin and Sinn Fein in Sligo, or between the Green party on March 1st and all of the left parties on the same. "

You tell me, you are the one who raised it. When did i ever support Sligo SF or the others who chickened out on Mar 1?

are you saying that i cant criticise the greens about one issue without criticising everything else i disagree with simultaneously????


Brollachain
"In my view, TREES are much more closely related to PEOPLE than bin charges. "

Not surprised that you say that. You support Bin charges.
"Huge numbers of PEOPLE in Galway support the campaign to save the TREES in Eyre Square."

fair play to them.
"There are also many PEOPLE in Galway who oppose bin charges."

you are not one of them

"The fact is that the Greens are far more concerned about PEOPLE living in a healthy environment than about the method of tax collection to pay for bin collection. That much is true."

thats a copout. why not be honest and state that you support bin taxes its green party policy.

"To suggest that we are anti-people is very very silly. "

by supporting bin charges you are supporting the criminalisation of those who are fighting them.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:50

Dear Pat C,

In my view, TREES are much more closely related to PEOPLE than bin charges.
Huge numbers of PEOPLE in Galway support the campaign to save the TREES in Eyre Square.
There are also many PEOPLE in Galway who oppose bin charges.
Many PEOPLE support both issues.
The fact is that the Greens are far more concerned about PEOPLE living in a healthy environment than about the method of tax collection to pay for bin collection. That much is true.
To suggest that we are anti-people is very very silly. In fact respect for all life, especially human life is a fundemental Green principle.
I wish you luck in your campaign.
However, I hope you would also be supportive of recycling and the removal of pollution from our environment.

Regards,

Niall.

by Sylvia Pankhurst - Eco Soc Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:01

"think people are more important than trees, which is more than can be said for the green party"

Pat that's a false dicthonomy (Sp???) o.k. say division...Eyre Square as I have pointed out and as anyone who has ever been in Galway knows is an amenity for the PEOPLE. Likewise people need trees (small thing called global warming, you might have heard).

The Green party is a reformist outfit, with little in the way of any notion of transcending capitalist society, and zero class anaylsis - that's it's problem, not eco heads putting trees before people or any similar such nonsense.
Kindly tell me the difference on this between the Green party in Dublin and Sinn Fein in Sligo, or between the Green party on March 1st and all of the left parties on the same.

by pat c Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:37

i think people are more important than trees, which is more than can be said for the green party. i dont accept that it is ranting and raving to state this.

The GP are responsible for people going to prison and will continue to be so responsible as long as they support the imposition of local charges. They are dishonest about this, it has nothing to do with the enviornment, its just a way of getting funding for local government. (the more honest gp members will admit this)

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Galway Environmental Alliance Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:09 niallob at esatclear dot ie

The Galway Environmental Alliance has never supported flat rate bin charges.
I have never supported flat rate bin charges.

And...

The only time that the Green Party has supported flat rate bin charges is when our elected councillors on Dublin City council supported them for tactical reasons. This was against Green Party policy. Green Party policy favours a waste not, pay not system.

However, this is precisely nothing to do with the issue of the trees in Eyre Square, or with any other issue for that matter.

The issue of the trees is a very important issue to me and to many others who have no interest in the Green Party or in bin charges.

While I accept the right of people to rant and rave all they like about bin charges, there is no particularly good reason to denigrate other genuine issues in the process.

by pat c Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:59

Seeing an article about trees by Niall was a red rag to a bull given the GP attitude to bin charges. I hope all ideologically sound tree lovers enjoy the event.

by Ruairi Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:58

Fair play to all - 'keep her lit' and move onwards and upwards.......all issues are connected.

by Sylvia Pankhurst - NUIG Eco. Soc. Thu Sep 11, 2003 18:03

Niall Ó Brolcháin is Green party - so your criticism are directed rightly in that direction, however I doubt if all Galway Environmental Alliance are Green Party (dunno) and the Eyre Square Trees issue does not belong to the Green Party, nor is this some airy fairy up in skies issue - Eyre Square is an ammenity for the people of Galway. I would hasten to add that not all of Galway's eco types are pro-bin charges (err me for example).

by pc Thu Sep 11, 2003 17:55

...

by pat c Thu Sep 11, 2003 17:14

I would say that these are 2 seperate issues. But this is a time when a class war is being waged by the wealthy to make ordinary people pay double taxation. What do the Greens do? They support the bin charges and they irganise a walk to look at all the lovely trees they have saved!

There are real people involved in this struggle, some hacve already gone to jail more of us may well yet be imprisoned.

The Greens are responsible for the consequences of their actions, by supporting bin charges they are supporting the imprisonment of activists.

Enjoy your tree-hugging session.

by Angry Thu Sep 11, 2003 17:07

But by supporting bin charges you are criminalising people. Are trees more important to you than people?