photos of evictions - not a lot has changed

by Seáinín Sat Jul 19, 2003 05:36

I'm speechless that you could be so ignorant. Your history book is not for colouring in, it's for reading.

by mr. aggro Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:53

Careful now Grim Reaper, or you'll have Prof. Shauneen from the Erris Hedge School lecturing us about the Races of Castlebar and how the valiant Mayo Pikemen would have freed Ireland if it hadn't been for the treacherous Dubs ......

Sadly his analysis overlooks the fact that these gallant pikemen were nothing more than cannon fodder under the command of a French officer ....

They may have had plenty of brawn to offer ..... but there wasn't much native brains in evidence ....

by Seáinín Mon Jul 21, 2003 03:07

It's because of their liking for flying the Union Flag on every possile occasion. The turncoat people of Dublin who spat and jeered at the men of 1916 on their way to the castle.

The same jackeens who slavishly followed every English trend and decimated the Irish language.

Proud history there, mr. aggro.

by mr finnerty Mon Jul 21, 2003 15:04

Jackeen [dʒæ'kiːn]
noun (Irish) a slick self-assertive lower-class Dubliner
[ETYMOLOGY: 19th Century: from proper name Jack + -een, Irish diminutive suffix, from Irish Gaelic -ín]
http://www.wordreference.com/english/definition.asp?en=Jackeen

Now I recommend everyone read P.K. Joyce's little book on Irish as she is spoken by the Irish. It was a favorouite source book of Sean O'Casey and even though it has been out of print for many many years, there is an online version.
and I qoute from Chapter 7.

"n the Irish language there are many diminutive terminations, all giving the idea of 'little,' which will be found fully enumerated and illustrated in my 'Irish Names of Places,' vol. ii, chap. ii. Of these it may be said that only one - in or ee'z - has found its way into Ireland's English speech, carrying with it its full sense of smallness. There are others - án or aun, and óg or oge; but these have in great measure lost their original signification; and although we use them in our Irish-English, they hardly convey any separate meaning. But een is used everywhere it is even constantly tacked on to Christian names (especially of boys and girls) - Mickeen (little Mick), Noreen, Billeen, Jackeen (a word applied to the conceited little Dublin citizen). So also you hear Birdeen, Robineen - redbreast, bonniveen, &c. A boy who apes to be a man-puts on airs like a man - is called a manneen in contempt (exactly equivalent to the English mannikin)".

So there you go no connection what-so-ever bewteen Union Jack and Jackeen.

maybe you should try be less narrowminded Seanín.

by mrs finnerty Mon Jul 21, 2003 15:07

there has been a lot of work in etymology since the P.K. Joyce book, Mr finnerty and well you know it, on our shelves we also have the online O'Byrne files.

which define a Jackeen as
"Term for Dubliners by persons from outside Dublin (opp. of 'Culchie'), Basically, a Dubliner. Or sometimes more specifically, a Dublin born and bred 'between the canals', as would his parents and grandparents. Most definitely though, a 'true' Dubliner, not a blow-in who thinks he's a Dubliner just because he lives there. Also Dublin was always seen as the most "English" city in Ireland by provincials and this was coined as a term of derision stemming from the English flag, the Union Jack, by adding the diminutive, -een. Literally, "Little Jack". Derived from "shoneen", a sort of "working-class West Brit""

by the finnerty local priest - out with those two all night Mon Jul 21, 2003 15:12

as indeed is their work for Hiberno-English Etymology but I thought the reader and indeed maybe Seanín might appreciate some thoughts on the origin of the term "Union Jack".

if you go to http://www.orange-street-church.org/text/union-jack-flag.htm (I'm very ecunemical) you'll read Douglas C. Nesbit essay first published in "The Prophetic Expositor" demonstrating the link between Jacob and the Union Jack and thus the people of Ulster.

or you could go to the online etymological dictionary
http://www.etymonline.com/u1etym.htm

you will get the definition:

Union Jack (1674) is properly a small British union flag flown as the jack of a ship, but it has long been in use as a general name for the union flag.

by mr finnerty Mon Jul 21, 2003 15:15

The Union Jack of 1674 wasn't the Union Flag of today! and you well know it.
It had a fleur de lys in the centre and no quarter for Ireland! The people of Ireland didn't call it the Union Jack till the 19th century, and the jack flown in Dublin was not the Union flag which Seanín is reffering to.
at all at all atall.

by mr. aggro Mon Jul 21, 2003 22:41

Shauneen my dear boy ... I can hardly understand your sympathy for the men of 1916 (what about the women you male chauvinist redneck bigot ?) ....

By your logic they were a bunch of deluded crusty gougers with no respect for property ... proclaiming a republic without any popular mandate .... and look at all the damage they caused in the centre of Dublin by their illegal entry and occupation of public buildings ...

So please try to be consistent and condemn them for what they were .......


PS: What was going on in Mayo in 1916 ... ?
I can't find the entry in my history book ......

by Seáinín Wed Jul 23, 2003 03:30

As Mr.Finnerty's quote already said 'most of these names have lost their original significance'. The signif. being the Union Flag.

It is always utterly misguided to compare people in the past with present day figurines like your bunch of self abusers. Conditions were different then, there was no Univeral Male Suffrage, we were governed by a foreign power (need I go on?).

As for Mayo in 1916, well you may ask the same about Belfast or Limerick or Cork. There were however, active and effective North Mayo and South Mayo brigades during the War of Independence.