POWs brutally beaten in Maghaberry

by Sammy Wed Jul 09, 2003 17:51 sammy at ulster dot com

They should give them another blast of the hose. Good enough for them. POWs???? Would you ever fuck off.....what are the thugs in for? Shooting some guy in front of his kids or blowing up pensioners??????

by kokomero Wed Jul 09, 2003 18:26

Sammy I notice you make no mention of loyalist prisoners not receiving equivalent treatment.

I guess it doesn't matter to you what happens to republicans because they're Taigs? Personally there is nothing that makes me more annoyed than blatant sectarianism and injustice.

In the North if you're a loyalist you can do pretty much what you want, if your a republican you can expect to have plastic bullets fired at you and land up in jail or dead.

by Questioning Authority Wed Jul 09, 2003 18:39

Unlike the previous comment, this one is genuine. I request information, please.

Why does it matter whether they are segregated. They are in cells anyway. Why does it matter who is in the next one?

Of course, it is quite wrong for any defenceless prisoner to be beaten. This is incompatible with the principles of modern liberal democracy and it's penal code. Prisoners, too, have rights. The point is to punish by restricting liberty, not to destroy the human spirit.

But if I'm in a cell, I'm in a cell. What does it matter who's in the next one?

If prisoners can talk 'through the bars' (forgive me, I have never been in a prison), then perhaps this is an opportunity for Republicans to ask questions of Loyalists so that they (Loyalists) can begin to think. Likewise, if the dialogue is to be genuine, we should acknowledge that it is equally an opportunity for Republicans to learn from Loyalists. We, too, should be willing to listen.

If we are all human beings, and we can learn through dialogue governed by the principles of reason, then why is it so terrible that we should be housed next to one another, even with those who disagree?

Surely this requires some supporting explanation...

I'm sorry for being so dumb, but to me it is not obvious.

by Questioning Authority Wed Jul 09, 2003 18:42

Ooops! When I said 'previous comment', I meant the FRO one (which may yet be deleted), not Kokomero.

I'm sorry about that.

by Side show bob Wed Jul 09, 2003 19:30

Surely, QA, you don't think that most prisoners spend their whole time in prison in their cells or that they don't share cells. Being in the same block, even if one has an individual cell, will mean that you are likely to come into regular contact with people whose relatives may have been killed by you or your organisation. Go figure.

by Mags Wed Jul 09, 2003 19:34

To Questioning Authority.

Here is a bit more background to the protests, which maybe answer some of your questions.

The Northern Ireland Office is currently operating a "forced integration" policy within Maghaberry prison.

Irish republicans prisoners at Maghaberry are being held individually isolated on loyalist landings where they are outnumbered up to 13 to 1, surrounded by hostile loyalist paramilitary prisoners. Groups who would normally not ever associate on the outside are being forced by the Northern Ireland Prisons Service to coexist in close quarters.

All terms of political status* have been totally revoked for these Republican prisoners, and vicious assaults and death threats are a part of their daily life. Several prisoners have already been viciously assaulted under these conditions; one very nearly fatally.

In March a vicious attack was leveled against a republican political prisoner at Maghaberry. John James Connolly, 28, was taking exercise in the prison yard when he was seriously burned with scalding water thrown from a cell window above. This is yet another in a series potentially lethal attacks against republican prisoners that have taken place inside Maghaberry prison in recent months.

Additionally, several Irish political prisoners at Maghaberry were recently visited by Northern Ireland Prison Service officers, who warned them that loyalist death threats had been issued from inside the prison against all of them.

Last week two Republican prisoners were abused and sent to the punishment blocks for refusing to share cells with loyalists and criminals. To force Republicans to share wings with loyalists and criminals is unacceptable but to try to force them to live together in a cramped cell beggars belief.

Irish republican political prisoners are being pushed to the brink of endurance under these deadly conditions, and many on the outside now fear that there is no choice left for these men but to take the drastic step of blanket or hunger strike protest. Already a token 3 day hunger strike has been held and up to 10 prisoners are no on ‘dirty protest’. Within prisons situations can escalate rapidly and there is very serious possibility of a prolonged hunger strike.

The solution is very simple – the NIO can agree to give Republican groups cells on the one wing. That is all they are asking for. From the point of view of the British it will also quieten down the prison and make administration more efficient. The current turmoil is to the benefit of no one.

_____________________
* Political Status.

The main points of ‘political status’ are as follows:

The right not to wear a prison uniform
The right as political prisoners not to do prison work
The right to associate with other political prisoners
The right to one weekly visit, letter and parcel

10 men died on hunger strike in 1981 to achieve these rights. The 1998 ‘Good Friday Agreement’ these rights were revoked and the ‘forced integration’ policy introduced so that it could again be claimed that there were no ‘political prisoners’ in the North.

by Paddy Wed Jul 09, 2003 19:38

kokomero - you are talking out of your hole. Just becasue somebody quesions the validity of political status for republicans doesnt mean they are loyalist/brit-lover etc. I'm certainly not backing the police on this but republicans/loyalists whatever - although not in the category of so called normal criminal - are certainly not freedom fighters and are guilty of blatant undemocratic methods esp against people with no concrete relation to thier struggle. Im sick of people - esp southerners - refusing to question the methods of republican militarism. Judge them the same way you judge loyalists, even despite the quantum political diferences. By all means, slate the cops and prison authorities for thier actions (quite rightly)but give somebody the rigfht to question the left wing credentials of the anti agreement shinners

by Tadhg Wed Jul 09, 2003 21:35

....Because so-called "Republican" dissidents today are nothing more than murdering scum. They are going to cry out, but nobody will answer. And you know what? It's their own fault.


Remember the Omagh bomb.

by Killian Forde Thu Jul 10, 2003 00:57

The negative comments above could have been written in 1980 and about as useful then as now.

It seems that the British govt and policy makers have learnt nothing. The conflict in the prisons for the five year period of 1976 -1981 only fuelled the wider conflict on this island ensuring that it continued on until 97.

The rights and wrongs of the prisoner, their grouping and paramilitary assocaition is totally irrelevant. For peace sake they need to be given political status - they are political prisoners and nobody, surely, in their right minds wants to see another dirty protest escalate into a hunger strike.

IRA prisoners in 1976-1981 were not beaten into submission and it would be a fool who would think that 'real' IRA prisoners in 2003 will somehow keel over and accept their 'criminality'. It won't occur so why waste lives and time, highten tensions and tempers, risk alienating political moderates on another futile 'criminalisation' policy.

by Sammy Thu Jul 10, 2003 16:11 sammy at ulster dot com

Earlier post said::::

The main points of ‘political status’ are as follows:

The right not to wear a prison uniform
The right as political prisoners not to do prison work
The right to associate with other political prisoners
The right to one weekly visit, letter and parcel

I say the main points of not been murdered by terrorist scum on both sides are:

The right to be a pensioner on a parade without been blown to hell.
The right not to be shot to death in front of your wife and kids.
The right to go shopping in Omagh without been blown to pieces.

Shove your political status up your hole. They should make prison as tough as possible for those bastard thugs. If there wasn't "the troubles" most of the thugs on both sides would be regarded as the criminal lowlifes they really are.

by Sammy's Nemesis Thu Jul 10, 2003 18:05

When I catch up with you we will see what will be inserted up anyones arse.

The point of this newswire is that people can post articles and appeals regarding political campaigns.

No one is interested in your bigotry and hatred. You obviously do not support the prisoners. Neither do you understand anything about human rights or prison conditions.

So go off and amuse youself somewhere else, surely there are lots of things to be doing over the next couple of day. Collect some tyres, or burn out some taigs, beat up some disabled mixed race kids..

Off you go, heres a good boy...

by kokomero Thu Jul 10, 2003 20:16

I notice you've now moved the goalposts to include loyalists who are not the only murdering scum as you put it. Let's not forget the murdering scum in the British occupation forces such as the guy who shot Aidan McAnespie from 300m with a single shot (quite a feat of marksmanship!) while "cleaning" his gun in Aughnacloy, or Lee Clegg to name but two. You can also add to that the RUC and RIR scum etc. Of course you no doubt support this type of tactic by the "security" forces and probably believe they should recieve a medal, not end up in jail. Uneven/unequal justice is no justice at all as you should know in the North, but you don't believe in equal rights/justice do you Sammy? At least not for Taigs!?

by Disgusted Fri Jul 11, 2003 00:29

AND A FUCKING DISGRACE TO IRELAND. I HOPE THEY GET THE SHIT KICKED OUT OF THEM AND THAT THEYRE FELLOW SCUM FRIENDS SHOOT THEM WHEN THEY GET OUT.

MURDERING SCUM!!!

I KNOW WHAT WOLFE TONE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THEM, HE WOULD SPIT ON THEM.

by Kokomero Fri Jul 11, 2003 09:23

Disgusted Sammy Paddy,

you have obviously had a rush of blood coming up to the 12th. Is it possible that you fall over and over into the same trap of discriminating against republicans. Don't forget that these people are in jail and the state has a duty to protect people in its' care. Do you advocate beatings for republicans only?

It sounds like a camp X-ray in the north you are advocating but for republicans only! Is there any guarantee that such summary beatings and injustice as you advocate will not be meeted out to other prisoners, paedophiles, rapists and murderers? Then you'll move on to manslaughter etc. It's a slippery slope you're on when you approve of such methods. What about victims of misscarriges of justice or victims of frame-ups, the stock in trade of the British justice system?

It is you who should give it a rest and think about the implications of the type of policies you approve of, which puts you in the company of Saddam, Pinochet and George Bush!

by Sammy Fri Jul 11, 2003 13:29 sammy at ulster dot com

Dear Sammy's Nemesis,

You really are some fucking idiot. Giving out about my views about the poor prisoners and telling me to go off and burn out some Catholics yet you open your message with a threat to me?

Great logic...if you read my responses you'll should have seen that I'm against violence on all sides and no I don't want to see prisoners beaten up or whatever but to hear some of the posters bleating on that they are POW's and they should be treated with kid gloves and not have to work or wear a uniform????? What is it a fucking holiday camp?? Where's the respect to those poor people they murdered??????

As for your threat to me??? What a laugh.......your support is giving the old POWs a great name. You say this site is for opinions and yet when someone doesn't agree with yours you threaten them? You really are a sad fucking idiot.

I'm shaking by the way.....................

by Tadhg Fri Jul 11, 2003 14:50

It was murder, plain and simple.

The simple fact is that there is no justification for those tactics, particularly after the GFA.

If people want to oppose the GFA, the best way is through solidarity with Working Class people on both "sides" - not terrorism.

Terrorism is completely counterproductive.

by Sammy's Nemesis Fri Jul 11, 2003 15:49

Sammy – nice to see you have now come over all liberal and say prisoners should not be beaten, considering your first post said "They should give them another blast of the hose. Good enough for them." And later on "They should make prison as tough as possible for those bastard thugs." But now you don’t take any side, but still call yourself "Sammy@ulster.com". Pull the other one, it has bells on.

None of the POWs involved was convicted for anything to do with Omagh. When was the last time a Republican was jailed for murder in the North? It is amazing that people on here seem to know what all the convictions are, considering none of the names of the POWs involved have been publicised.

If you do not understand political status and related issues there is little that can be done for you. However this is not the case, in fact you are a loyalist or at least a loyalist apologist (an even more verminous life form).

The point I was making is that this site is for people to write articles and raise concerns about political issues in Ireland. When people do this in an honest way and identify themselves, etc. they get reams of abuse from people like you. And you are surprised when people give you abuse back?

Have a nice day tommorrow – don’t singe yourself at the bonfire!

by Tiocfaidh Armani - Republican Fri Jul 11, 2003 16:48 info at fiannaeireann dot com Ireland

A chara, my bigoted friend, can to tell me to the thousands of killers of Iraqi men, women and children, what their killers are? Are they not murdering scum? Or is it because their bombs are bigger and the papers are their apoligist?
Armed struggle is legitimate against all occupying forces,in countries that do not belong to them.
Na Fianna Éireann will be holding a picket for our political prisoners on the 19th of July, between 1-2 pm outside the GPO, Dublin.
VICTORY TO THE POW's!

by pat c Fri Jul 11, 2003 17:29

under special laws, tried in special courts, these prisoners are entitled to special status.

you dont have to support cira or rira to believe that people who are put through an abnormal judicial proces deserve a special status.

i think the actions of the cira & rira are conter-productive. not just civilian targets. also the targetting of the territorial army. the TA have never played a role in the war in the north.

BUT these people would not have taken up arms if british imperialism did not occupy part of this island. the brits are the ultimate source of all violence.

by Ailín Sat Jul 12, 2003 14:28

Irish Republicans are charged under political inspired acts and tried in political courts where no evidence is needed for their conviction. They are political prisoners and deserve political status. History shows us that Republican prisoners will not accept the slur of criminality. Thomas Ashe, Tony Darcy, Frank Stagg and Francis Hughes fought for political status and died for that status. The men in Maghaberry, Magilligan and Portlaoise jails deserve our support. Victory to the POWS.

by rooster Sat Jul 12, 2003 19:41

In the North if you're a loyalist you can do pretty much what you want, if your a republican you can expect to have plastic bullets fired at you and land up in jail or dead.
-the fact that the loyalists are in prison with the republicans shows that the state is jailing both categories of prisoner irrespective of what flag they murder for.

by Side show bob Being in the same block, even if one has an individual cell, will mean that you are likely to come into regular contact with people whose relatives may have been killed by you or your organisation. Go figure.
-side show bob you ignorant ass, and maybe if they had not killed in the first place they would'nt be there? Go figure, what a gay american saying!

by Ailín Sun Jul 13, 2003 11:52

"The TA is an essential element of the British Armed Forces. It forms one quarter of the British Army, playing the vital dual role of reinforcing the Regular Army" - from the TA website.

There are 16 units of this so called territorial Army in the six counties which actively target Irish people for recruitment. Some of these recruits will go onto to join the regular british army. They are a legitimate target.

by Disgusted Mon Jul 14, 2003 03:27

for unelected, upopular minority groups who feel like killing.

Who do fuck do you think gave you the right to act on behalf of the Nationalists in Northern Ireland? (No one did).

IT'S OVER SCUM! GIVE IT UP.

by pat c Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:42

The TA are weekend soldiers, they have never been deployed on active service in the North. The PIRA never actively targetted them because of this, in all of their war, PIRA only killed 3 TA members, in 2 cases because they were Military Intelligence Operatives, the third because he was a UVF Intelligence Operative.

To target the TA can only be seen as sectarian by the Protestant Community. The CIRA are discrediting themselves by attacking such soft targets.

To make matters worse, the TA member killed by CIRA was on a base which trains UN Medical Personnel for Relief Missions.

THis doesnt take away from the fact that CIRA & RIRA prisoners deserve Special Category Status. It just makes it more difficult to campaign for it.