World 'losing battle against extinctions'

by pete ranks Sat May 24, 2003 09:34

you should check out some of the info available about the building of 'the aparteid wall'. Where it is being build, huge swathes of land are being cleared by IOF bulldozers, which not only has devastating consequences for the flora and fauna in the areas, but also is splitting delicate ecosystems and dividing populations of various animals(which will lead to a decrease in the gene pools of particular species, which can lead to extinction) as well as interupting the migratory routes of several species including some of the native deer species.
So before you go harping on about the bigger picture, try to sort out the mess you guys are creating in PALESTINE.

by Avi H. Thu May 22, 2003 23:53

Leaving them all aside and the political turmoil even of the middle east or northern ireland: all these will be just a detail of history, when we find that the fish stocks in the sea have collapsed, the air is unbreathable, most of the planet's species are extinct, there has been a type of nuclear or volcanic winter for several years meaning no growing seasons, while humans die in their millions from starvation and civil strife...

A sneak preview of what awaits us later on this century, folks - if anyone's interested...

by Jahweh Thu May 22, 2003 17:12

Avi.. you vile sanctimonious holier than-thou fork-tongued pontificating ass.

Mike..much of the same to you, less vile more sanctimonious perhaps.

by Avi H. Thu May 22, 2003 14:54

By all means, if you all would like to squabble on blithely while the planet dies, that tells me something...

by Mike Thu May 22, 2003 14:51 stepbystepfarm at shaysnet dot com

Maybe that's something we should be thinking about. Sorry, but at the level what we humans are doing COLLECTIVELY (both oppressors and oppressed alike) to the ecosphere of the planet how we treat each other doesn't matter. Nature doesn't care if we humans treat each other with justice or not, and we are certainly not an endangered species -- quite the contrary, there are close to an order of magnitude too many of us for LONG TERM balance.

BUT THAT SAID -- it IS perhaps pertainent to consider the consequences of human injustice. For those of us directly involved, for whom it is OUR survival and the survival of our children, a case can be made that we WILL NOT pay attention to the environmental destruction until out social justice issues are settled.

To which there is the contrary arguement, available to those NOT directly involved, that there can be no "justice" on a dead planet. Except perhaps the equality of the grave.

Avi -- I have seen little to no interest on any IMC site towards considering the question that perhaps we SHOULD be paying more attention to the environmental struggle than the social struggles, at least with regard to those with whihc we are not PERSONALLY involved. I rather suspect that too many here have some "religious" faith that if only we humans managed to solve our social probelms then the environmental ones would "fall into place". A belief that the environemntal crisis isn't real, that it's just an artifact of capitalism (for example), and that if we divided the "wealth" of the world fairly there would be plenty fo go around for everybody. Sort of like the Christian story about the loaves and fishes. They have this faith, in spite of the fact that the soil fertility and water to grow the grain to make this bread is rapidly being depleted and the seas have been emptied of fish.

You'll need to go elsewhere to find news/discussion of environmental concern.

by mad scientist. - the mad scientist grouping Thu May 22, 2003 11:46

planet.
http://paris.indymedia.org/article.php3?id_article=3108
whose eyes?
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ check NCSA-CRAY2

by Yossarian Thu May 22, 2003 11:24

These questions posed for the first time this post, fourth time overall, still no response:

Give us a break. Tell us about something relevant, like how far Israelis are prepared to go for peace. Would they stop building settlements? Would they remove all existing settlements on occupied territory? Would they leave a Palestine administration control all thw water under their land? Would they cede control of the currently occupied territories as contiginous entities instead of strips of land criss-crossed by Israeli highways as proposed in the "best deal ever" offered by Clinton and Barak? How about control of the borders wuth Jordan and Egypt, would Israel cede control of these?

Or what?

by Joss Thu May 22, 2003 11:02

We can argue but our country is dying.

It is important to keep political disputes in perspective. Humans are treating the Palestinians of the Earth with terrible arrogance. In a very real way, this is the big picture. We are literally killing the Palestinians for the purpose of consumerism. Giving a public talk in London, a US expert said yesterday that most Palestinians will become extinct without the human race ever knowing about their existence in the first place.

In any case, the question arises, for how long can this go process go on, before the planet takes its revenge, and we become extinct?

by Joss Thu May 22, 2003 11:02

We can argue but our country is dying.

It is important to keep political disputes in perspective. Humans are treating the Palestinians of the Earth with terrible arrogance. In a very real way, this is the big picture. We are literally killing the Palestinians for the purpose of consumerism. Giving a public talk in London, a US expert said yesterday that most Palestinians will become extinct without the human race ever knowing about their existence in the first place.

In any case, the question arises, for how long can this go process go on, before the planet takes its revenge, and we become extinct?

by Avi Thu May 22, 2003 09:35

I find the tone of your post insulting. Moreover, it looks like an attempt at censorship: you only want me to post on an 'approved subject', simply because of my identity. How do you justify any of this? Surely, it is both inherently repugnant and undemocratic?

The nature of posts is no different to the vast majority that are permitted without comment. Why single out me?

by Avi Thu May 22, 2003 09:33

I find both the content and tone of your post insulting. Moreover, it looks like an attempt at censorship: you only want me to post on an 'approved subject', simply because of my identity. How do you justify any of this? Surely, it is both inherently repugnant and undemocratic?

by R Isible - 1 of IMC Thu May 22, 2003 05:20

as I am sure you are aware by now Indymedia.ie does not seek to be a discussion group, or a debating forum. As I am sure you are also more than aware there is a problem with the newswire moving too fast and articles disappearing off it. Your "news" above is another of the "here's a story I read: discuss" type posts that a small number of people are foisting upon other newswire users. Please don't do this. Confine yourself to trolling on issues of Zionism,Palestine and US Imperialism. After all that's what you're good at.