How do we stop the next war?

by Raymond McInerney Mon Apr 28, 2003 20:23 raymond.mcinerney at ul dot ie

Good news for all peace-loving people

Funds being raised to establish a group of 16,000 peace-creating experts in India

(22 April, 2003) His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi proclaimed that with a pinch it is possible to establish a permanent group of 16,000 peace-creating experts in India. Their collective practice of Vedic technologies of consciousness will create coherent world consciousness and lay the foundation for harmony in the family of nations.

Maharishi’s dramatic proclamation came on Wednesday, 16 April, during his weekly global news conference, broadcast live via satellite, Internet webcast, and teleconference call.

Support from a few generous donors funds the 16,000 group Maharishi’s announcement of funding for the 16,000 group comes after appealing to the wealthy to create a $1 billion world peace endowment fund for a permanent group of 40,000 experts in India. "Now, with a pinch, there is enough money for about 16,000 experts. This is a modest start for creating world peace," Maharishi said. He added that a philanthropist could step forward at any time with more money to employ more experts to make the group bigger and intensify the coherent influence in world consciousness.

by unbelievable Mon Apr 28, 2003 23:06

40,000 sitting around dreaming of peace is one thing but if you wanted to do the job cheaper then me and a couple of mates will stick on some vedic pants and smoke a bit of the ganga. After we get some munchies then we will also dream of peace.

by Josef Tue Apr 29, 2003 13:29

incognito. I can almost hear the acrimony already. Wouldn't miss it for the world.

by Amanda Tue Apr 29, 2003 22:32

One way you could stop the next war is by getting rid of all the scummers who dont have the mental capacity to understand two words : "Peaceful Protest". Next time we protest I hope the unwashed brigade will stay away. Our whole campaign was a shambles - the nail in the coffin was when Mary Kelly attacked the plane at Shannon. It was totally downhill from that day on. I wonder why I bothered.

by Phuq Hedd Tue Apr 29, 2003 23:57

if you don't understand that destruction of an airplane is "peaceful protest" then you must be one of the "scummers" that you refer to.

Just out of interest, why did you bother?

by index - Citizen of Ireland Wed Apr 30, 2003 13:02

I would just like to say that I agree with the fact that maybe smashing up a war plane is not the way. We have to look at what was the result? Did it stop the war machine? Not in the slightest. Did it prove a point? That we are as bad as Bush if we don’t get our way we will use violence. Did it get press? Yes it did get us press and made us all look like a bunch of loons.

I believe in peaceful affirmative action occupation no problem but as soon as we use violence we have lost. If we go around engaging in smashing up planes we engage in cheap thrills. We have to remember that the anti war movement is a loose coalition of people of different political beliefs but there one thing that we agree that the war was wrong. All you have to do is look back to what happened when 100,000 people took to the streets in Dublin. They were families, trade unionists, men of the cloth, socialists, humanitarians, pensioners.

With a new war looming we need to adopt peaceful means, look more to people like Gandhi and King. Who were great uniters of people, not dividers. But also led a very brave campaign of peaceful civil disobedience. We need to look at what works! Smashing up a plain does not work but to allow the media paint the whole anti war movement as bunch of head bangers. Remember the movement belongs to 100,000 who marched Dublin as much as it does to you.

by Ray Wed Apr 30, 2003 13:44

Bertie ducked and dived for a few days, waiting for the heat to pass. That's it. The planes kept on landing at Shannon.

What happened when security was repeatedly breached at Shannon?
Three of the carriers used by the US military pulled out.

The march didn't work. The direct action did.

(Not that there was anything wrong with the march. But it could only ever work as a STARTING point, not an end in itself.)

by Andrew Wed Apr 30, 2003 14:29

I think all of use involved in planning and carrying out the various direct actions are actually aware of the limitations of them. That is part is why we are having tonights meeting, if we had suceeded then there would be little reason for it.

On the other hand I don't get this head in the sand approach of those who oppose(d) these actions. There was a provable impact on the war machine in terms of the actual temporary removal of two planes from that machine and whatever logistical problems re-routing the 3 carriers who pulled out of Shannon caused. No one pretends that this caused a major headache but it must have had at least a pin prick of impact.

If you look at the history of GNAW in the broad sense of all those of us who worked together from December 2002 onwards you'll see we bent one way and then the other to try and accomodate those who were unsure of the way things were done. We asked for meetings, we asked for observers, we organised public actions when secret one's were criticised, we carried flags to identify ourseleves when people complained of being mixed up with us etc, etc. There were problems with the way we did some of this of course, again this is why we are having this meeting but at least we tried.

Now it may be that those who oppose these actions as too 'violent' actually do have alternatives. If so lets hear them, I'd be more then willing to go along with something that would _work_ and would leave people less open to marginalisation and criminalisation. The problem has been that those making the most amount of 'plan A is too violent' have been silent as putting forward a convincing plan B. If you have it lets hear it.

by Joe Sheehan Wed Apr 30, 2003 15:45

Have to say as someone who started out thinking that if we got enough people on the streets that it would change the government's opinion, my mind has changed completely. there was 100,000+ on the streets on Feb 15th in Dublin and it made not one bit of difference, in my humble opinion the way forward is Mass Civil Disobediance.
The only time the government and co seemed to react is when there were Non Violent Direct Actions, and the general public are beginning to come on side some ultra conservative hippies aside (right Amanda?) Having seen how the big blockade works in Faslane I do like an idea like that but i do not think we can coordinate with the Gardai like the TP coordinate with Strathies.
We need to get people to wake up and see what is really going on, start working on people NOW and educating them on what is happening in the world that there are wars in too many parts of the world being supplied by arms companies the world over.
But we have to keep at it!

by Tim Thu May 01, 2003 01:35

To pick up on Joe's point about Faslane.
The Faslane blockades involve large numbers of people, with different tactics and with visible effect.

some people sit and pray and sing, others lock on, others cut through the fence and get to the ship-lift (a VERY sensitive area considering these ships carry NUCLEAR weapons)

It's all good.
The difference in the protest climate is vast.
A valuable point is this.
The people who sit and sing - whether they agree with fence cutting and sabotage or not - DO NOT RUN FOR COVER AT THE FIRST HINT OF CRITICISM OF PEOPLE WHO CUT THE FENCE.

Are we going to stop protesting because someone else's tactics differ from ours?
Do we roll over when the government makes an angry splutter?

Do governments and politicians abandon campaigns because of more militant politicians or lobbyists?
No they don't? Why should we fall for a deliberate divide and conquer strategy?

Don't agree with Mary Kelly and the Catholic Workers? fine, your choice.

Think the whole movement should have to bend over to accomodate any 'offence taken' for those actions? ... take a reality check.

let me decode some patronising cop/ politician speak for you.

"we support the right to peaceful protest but this is unreasonable"
in plain english is "well, we can't be openly facist and force them back into complacency, but we can be morally outraged at anything more affective than marching with banners... there's a risk it could upset the power balance and that's unacceptable"

next time you hear that phrase, remember what various empires have done to simple peaceful protest they either ignore it or repress it (Sharpesville, Amritsar, Bloody Sunday)
Protest AND civil resistance are needed.

sit ins, blockades, boycotts all get called "unreasonable" by powermongers scared of the spread of such tactics.

Personally, I applaud the bravery and dignity with which people have taken action and stood up to their critics and the law - even if I don't share their faith in our legal system.

We should support them in their struggle, for it is also our struggle.

There are millions of people under occupation and more wars in the works - lets not despair just because the media circus tells us the war is over and that the good guys won and we can go back to watching "Pop Idol" and buying petrol to burn in traffic jams.
There were no good guys leading this war. the good guys got shot and blown up, starved and irradiated with DU. and Bush and Co plan some more of the same.

People will have different levels of anger and compassion and different tactics to oppose this horror. Diversity is no bad thing.

So, let's get comfortable with seeing diversity of action. It's not like we are in a position to stop people taking direct action anyway.

The major tactics have been debated and I won't get into them here, but the goals should always be peaceful and effective at resisting whether by refusing to co-operate with the war, denying the warmongers facilities to prosecute the war, or else supporting other resisters.

But what we should not do is get into a rut of sham-actions.

eg. having a protest at the Dail that moves just before the TDs get out, after listening to speeches from "enlightened ones".

The warmongering elite want us to shut up. But we ALL have a voice. We should ALL be heard, and not just in repetitive chants holding mass produced banners. A herd mentality is not an empowering thing.

I suggest if we have another Dail blockade then have an open mic.
Let everyone say their piece, however small, and don't leave until we are done. sure some people will repeat themselves "I'm Mike I'm against the war, I'm Mary and I'm against the war" but let them say it. Let the traiterous leeches hear the people they hide from between elections.

That's probably a good starting point. Put them on notice of our anger and our resolve.
Come up with a game plan and advance it.
The first steps were asking politely and using our feet and the courts.
I think the law was on our side, but we forgot to factor in the power variable.
That's also on our side if we can organise properly.
If we make concerted efforts to disrupt collusion we will have an effect, and their will be a reaction. (anytime there is no reaction then you have had no effect - that's not just politics, its basic physics)

We also have to think of ways to resist in our daily lives. We cannot simply inconvencience the warmongers on an ad-hoc basis.
Previous successes notwithstanding, Shannon can get used to monthly protests, call in hundreds of cops etc, and then business as usual for four more weeks.
In the mean-time, work out what small but collective changes you can do.
Speak to others, tell them what's really happening, provoke constructive debate.
How about a local ballot/ poll?
Perhaps, for impartiality, switch neighbourhoods with another local group and organise a mini-referendum. record the local populations attitude to the war, Shannon, the arms trade etc.
Report the findings, encourage others to find out what their locality thinks about the issues

Put the heat on politicians - clinics, public appearances, meeting them on the street, confront them with the reality of what they did, and demand a straight answer.
Ring that radio talk show! tell them what you think.
You don't have to be an "expert" to have a valid opinion.
set up your own local media, a paper or maybe pirate radio.
Boycott /protest products, events, companies that promote warmongers.
Find out which companies support the war. check AfrI or Amnesty's reports - there's more than you think. My brother worked on hi-tech arms components and only found out by his own investigation. (they told him it was just "digital signal processors")
Don't work for arms companies or their suppliers (unless you are a mole or sabotuer)
Promote the idea of Buy Nothing Day.
Believe me, greedy corporations do lose sleep about one days profits.
Do more of your shopping in markets and co-ops.
Apart from being more sustainable and friendly, markets and co-ops (unlike multinational companies) tend not to give brown envelopes to politicians, tend not to have subsidiaries that also make cruise missiles etc.
They may seem more expensive than big shops, but they don't slash half the workforce for higher profits while taking government subsidies (the real welfare spongers)

Sod the car - cycle/walk for short trips
car-pool, hitch, take a bus/ train.
(simple but effective way to reduce oil consumption - sounds very fluffy, but think how much Oil barons hate cyclists)
and lots more besides.

All these are small things, they only become powerful when lots of people do them.
They're not illegal and there's little the FF/PD scum can do to clamp down on it.

That's my two bits, daft as they may seem, and tired and rambling as I am at 01:29 on a Thursday morning.
What do you suggest?

by Gerry Thu May 01, 2003 17:18

A strong military

by Justin Morahan - Peace People (as individual) Tue May 06, 2003 13:28

Don't go away. Be prepared for setbacks. Stick together.