Countdown to Armageddon

by shoegirl Thu Feb 06, 2003 17:28 shoegirl at eircom dot net

This is the grave danger posed by an unprovoked invasion of Iraq. If the US invades Iraq without the sanction of the UN, it raises the spectre of a dangerous series of attacks by other countries such as North Korea.

Also, every single US out post, ally, company or installation will become targets for international terrorist groups as they retaliate.

Part of the problem today is that there is no longer the principle there was in the Cold War days that a war would be unwinnable, since the Us are aiming towards totally disarming these countries, it is granting itself absolute might and military dominance. The likely result will be a huge incease in covert militarism, ie. international terrorism.

by Poster Child - none Fri Feb 07, 2003 00:38 poster at ncafe dot com

It's sad to say, but Kim Jong Il has gotten himself into a mess that it may be very hard to get out of. I am not talking so much about the current iteration, although it is probably the worst one so far.. I am talking about the way he has limited his own choices for the future so completely with lies and misdeeds.. Not unlike some other aging cold warriors who I could name.. :(

The big issue in the nuclear crisis, as has been shown again and again is verification.. The US needs it, North Korea will never allow it.. (there are killing fields, yes, some very very scary things going on in NK that Kim wants to keep bottled up..for an idea of what I mean, see http://www.ncafe.com/northkorea/SunOkLeeTestimony_w_llus.pdf )

For an interesting analysis of North Korea's strategy options, take a look at the paper available at:
http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/north_koreas_strategy.htm

They don't look very pretty.. It all goes to show the truth in the old adage.. "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive"

by charles hooper - self (I guess that you could call me a California Consumer) Fri Feb 07, 2003 01:01 userc988570 at cs dot com 188 stoney hill dr. folsom, calif. U.S.A. 95630-4626 916-983-9780

If you can translate this into North Korean, or whatever the language is there: You know, we're not really a bad bunch of people over here in the U.S. I wish I had a grain of sand for all of the millions of dollars that we've given to foreign aid. I could have my own beachfront property on my 1/4 acre of street property. Sometimes we just get bored over here. We know that we're not supposed to be the world's policeman. But it's all because of these 'other country's rejects' that we have here. It seems like everyone has a foreign relations stake in just about every country in the world. Every time someone fights a war, the loser comes over here. I don't know if that's good or bad. It can be for either political or economic reasons. Or the plane broke down and they got 'lost' over here. (yeh - right). Anyway hang in there. And if you can see just a little light at the end of the tunnel, we'll help you make it bigger and better. Just think positive, It's all good. We'll be more than happy to help you economically and politically. We'd help you militarilly, also. But we hear that your quality control system could use an overhall. (Key words - Understanding, Communication, Trust and then Respect and Committment). Easier said than done. But it can be done. (Why do I have to solve all of the world's problems? gggg) Thanks. C.A. Hooper, Folsom, Calif. U.S.A., 95630-4626.

by pp gotera - tia Sat Feb 08, 2003 19:39 pp at cplus dot es dsafasf 45 65895452568

a la mierda el mundo

by Ivan Ctisphonics Sat Feb 08, 2003 22:28 kaptaineivan at yahoo dot com West Virginia

Bomb Ireland! You guys are hurting our bussiness with your plastic bag tax, people want to do that over here in America now! This will put me out of a job, REMEMBER THE TRENT! We can threaten to go to war over stupid stuff too!!!! Neither Iraq or N. korea have a bag tax! DOWN WITH IRELAND! (Unless they get rid of the tax, then it's, oh, look at the Irish, such a nice, peaceful people, getting rich off those pot of' gold they find at the end of the rainbow.

by Patrick Sun Feb 09, 2003 03:48

Ironically, sometimes war is necessary to reach peace. National boundary/sovereign state issues are irrelevant - people anywhere deserve freedom of speech, freedom to information, freedom to publish, and many more kinds of freedom. We are all the same; with the same human aspirations. Any dictatorship is immoral; morally wrong. It is wrong because it condemns those under it - against their better judgment and moral convictions - and coerces them to collaborate with it, if only through their silence. It strips people of moral responsibility; it can change any attempt to be humane and morally responsible into virtual suicide. This is why dictatorships must be removed. It doesn't matter what country they are in - people are still people. And governments that destruct individual liberty should not have weapons of mass destruction (because they will not use them in the name of human liberty, but in the name of their own interests - i.e., holding onto power).

A democracy is not perfect either. Indeed, it is the worst form of government, except of course when compared to all other forms of government. (Churchill said something like that.) It's the best so far. There may be a better one someday. A democracy has the important difference from other forms in that it makes it possible for a people to depose their own government without bloodshed.

What's upsetting currently is that all those who are protesting around the world against war do not seem to know history. Other countries are against the war because they don't have a perspective on the evils of tyranny like us in America or the UK. So many people seem unaware of everything that has happened in the past in Europe or other places. There are parallels between now and then. For example, Churchill knew what Hitler was up to long before the rest of Europe did. There seemed to be nothing wrong with the German national spirit. ("Deutschland, Deutschland, uber alles, uber alles in der Welt.") Indeed, even Germany didn't know: The freely elected Weimar Republic made Hitler dictator through the constitutional means of an Enabling Act. And so, back then, people argued against Churchill, too, just as they argue against Bush/Blair today. But we know what eventually happened (and any nationalism is stupid, by the way, it's almost like racism). And that's not the only example. Hussein would attempt something similar in the Middle East. He already has - against Saudi Arabia. It's good that Bush won't cave in to public opinion. People are vastly and incredibly misinformed about the meaning of current world events. Mass ignorance may be good for keeping a market economy alive or when it's watching sitcoms every evening. But it's blind when it tries to make global decisions about what's right and wrong. People in the west will do well to take advantage of their freedom to information and educate themselves before protesting what leaders in the west are trying to accomplish. People should revisit the goals of historical figures like Roosevelt and Churchill. Because of those mens' ideals the world has been getting better. Not worse.

People should read accounts of life in unfree countries or visit those places. All people deserve freedom. It's better for a society. Individual freedom is better for the collective. Governments that force equality on their people rob them of their individual liberties. Read the accounts of the German doctor who spent a lot of time in North Korea in Time Magazine or Wall Street Journal. Compare North and South Korea. Search online for a satellite image of the Korean penninsula at night. The North is completely dark; a barren wasteland of poverty and misery. The whole penninsula is almost like a well-designed experiment, where the treatment effect (form of government) is bounded by the 38th parallel. People, just like those anywhere else, starve and die above that demarcation line. Because of the regime. The same suffering happens in other regimes, like Iraq. It's because of the governments. Why would any rational person NOT want those regimes removed? As a human being, it should be offensive that others are treated so badly; that they can be killed for expressing themselves. It's just wrong. When you look into the eyes of people in those places and spend time with them, you feel a connection with them. You are them; they are you. We all deserve the same freedoms.

by david Mon Feb 10, 2003 02:39 dearlt39 at hotmail dot com

lets do it, go to war. and stop the evil of iraq, north korea now , before its too late !

by Oyako Shimura - MCC/Himawari Tue Feb 11, 2003 13:34 ccmcc at meishi dot co dot jp

The current situation in North Korea in many way's resembles the situation in which Japan found itself prior to Pearl Harbor.

North Korea is economically held in a deathhold by the the US and its allies, just like Japan was under a crimminal blockade at the beginning of the the second world war. Japan at that time launched a brave and honorable strike against Pearl Harbor in order to break the blockade against Japan.

I very agree with the author that North Korea may well act pro-active and launch and all out attack in responds to the economical blockade under which it is suffering. The cause for such a strike however is not expansionism of North Korea but rather the arrogant and dictorial attitudes of the western powers.

Personally I call on Asian powers and particular Japan to recognize the true situation and take steps to protect rather than attack North Korea. For the same token I call on the people of Japan and Asia in general to refocus on our national values and heritage such that we free ourself from foreign domination. I call on the people of Japan to reinstate the Emperial Court in correpondance with our traditions.

No longer should we allow ourselfs to be humiliated and falsy accused in repect to the real reasons for the second world war. In this context we should realize that North Korea is victimized and forced into action by the Americans and Western Powers.

It is not North Korea which is part of an axis of evil it are the Western Powers which a the aggressor and by consquence the true evil.