ballymun Against the War Public Meeting

by cool Wed Jan 29, 2003 23:08

you have everthing u need.
and a clean water source nearby.
others have done the same with similarly designed blocks in eastern and central europe.

end Speculation.

by john p. Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:14

It should be pointed out that this same meeting is actually being organised (and advertised in Ballymun) by the Ballymun branch of the Irish Anti-War Movement and that Kevin Wingfield is an SWP organiser.
Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that but the Ballymun Against the War group is not connected to the IAWM or the SWP and that it seems very dubious that IAWM is claiming to be a group that they have no jurisdiction over.
BAW is an independent and loose organisation of Ballymun residents, not a branch of the SWP.

by iosaf Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:24

enough open space for cultivation of food if organic soil is brought to help reclaim the concrete and tarmac.
Enough experiance of beurocratic nonsense to know that a community can best help itself.
Enough water from one open source and two others underground. Enough bad pointless rent has been paid for that complex.
Squat it! you all think i´m being silly or stupid but no, Ballymun is a perfect location. The ratio of residents to hecatarage is right.
Someday this is what "the people" will have to try and do. Do you think that 1st world civilisation can continue as before?
Do you think the exploitation of macro-agro-economics can continue? Do you think Dublin in 80 years will not have food being grown in its centre? Do you think that the equity and mortgage system will bring you global development and prosperity? no.
no-one does.
So why does everyone wait for a party with a majority in the local parliament to write more bad law to implement change that is so obvious at the level of the..."street".
Speculation means exploitation
and property thus assigned ridiculous value.
Equity means social division and the perversion of education, the creation of a class system that makes a mockery of educational values.
That class system has spawned social, and health problems that the poorest have seen recorded as criminalisation.

If places like Ballymun can not be reclaimed then no Parliamentary square can ever be a garden.

by red - sp Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:35

no SP speakers invited. SWP back to their old tricks? I was wondering when the SWP we all know would return. Looks like the War has rubbed off the last of the post-election non-sectarianism!

by E - SWP Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:45

I think there is a misunderstanding contained in the last post from the Red-SP. If you check this posting

http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=26010

it clearly states that Mick Murphy is speaking on behalf of the SP. Also I know SP members have spoken at Anti War meetings in Dublin city centre and elsewhere. There is no issue here I think.

by Intransigent Thu Jan 30, 2003 13:18

Time for the Socialist Party to emerge out of their petty sectarian attitudes. While you constantly moan about others organising against the war you seem to still be focusing on building your electoral base and the upcoming council elections. There are massive splits in the ruling class yet you choose to focus your energies upon the bin tax campaign. The front page of your paper clearly illustrates the great importance you feel you need to place on the bin tax and other economic issues because you obviously feel that your constituents couldn't possible understand the war. Understand that you are having some divisions in your own party about this very focus. Stop complaining and start building. Even the Shinners are getting stuck in for the 15th and building anti war movement. Time to forget petty secatarianism especially all your hatred against your old comrades in Labour. Sure I don't like Labour. Not one bit. But the idea behind builidng a united front is that it ia actually united????? Sectarianism breeds sectarianism.

by crux - SP Thu Jan 30, 2003 13:41

I think you will find that the SP are fully behind the demo on the 15th of Feb. To say otherwise is just plain wrong. The January ediation of the Voice covers governemnt cut-backs, and the back page covers the war.

I make no apologies in sticking by campaigns. The bin tax camapign is very important and any serious revolutionaries that wish to build respect from workers will stick to camapigns and not flit from issue to issue.

The SP are also getting stuck into anti-war work. That is the subject for most party stalls over the past while.

Your right, I dont like labour. I dont like any capitalist party. But I dont say they shouldn't be allowed in the anti-war movement. At the same time they should be criticised for their support of sanctions and their support for a 'multilateral' war.

by Denis Tourish - ex Militant Thu Jan 30, 2003 14:12

'The SP are also getting stuck into anti-war work. That is the subject for most party stalls over the past while.'

It seems to me that you are merely building the SP and your fronts such as YAW.

On the other hand the SWP appear fully committed to the IAWM and do not maintain a front organisation within it.

by Brian Cahill Thu Jan 30, 2003 19:05

1) As everybody here knows, the war has been the main campaigning issue for the Socialist Party for months. We are affiliated to the IAWM and play a full role in its activities.

2) Recently some SWP branches have taken it on themselves to organise anti-war meetings. Good. I applaud their initiative.

The problem comes when these meetings are billed as IAWM meetings yet with few exceptions they exclude the Socialist Party from the platform in favour of an SWP/Labour/SF line-up. Either these are SWP meetings - in which case who they put on a platform is entirely their business - or they are IAWM meetings - in which case those decisions should be made by everybody in the IAWM. Unless of course the SWP intends to treat the IAWM as its property rather than a real united front.

3) Every issue of the Voice for months has covered the war on either the front or back page. Every issue has also contained more in depth articles on the war inside.

4) Given that Denis makes part of his living throwing abuse at left wing organisations (as opposed to merely being an enthusiastic amateur like some here) I would suggest that he isn't really the most reliable source. On this, as on so much else, he is incorrect. Seeing the relative success of Youth Against the War, the SWP have launched a pale imitation, "School Students Against the War".

by Magneto Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:41

Why are ypou opposed to Anti War Demos against British bases in the north? After all the RIR are part of the force in the Gulf.

by monkey mafia - rathmines swp Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:51

its good to see the sp's commitment
however there was a while back say in the summer when there was a national conference the sp didn't bother sending anyone to it, your party lost interest and its only really been since october that kevin mc loughlin made a humble aplogy for ignoring the building of the IAWM. You have rejoined it after it has been built, but you seem to want a lot of the credit. you can't have everything

by Andrew Fri Jan 31, 2003 15:06

'The SWP built the IAWM therefore the SWP will determine how it is run'

While the first part is obviously true and I can see why as a result 'monkey mafia' thinks the second part is acceptable I don't see why they think anyone outside of the SWP would accept this equation.

More to the point - some of us reckon the IAWM is simply another SWP front, if in the style of GR rather then the ANL. Above we have a self-proclaimed SWP member not only admitting this but defending it.

Now before the inevitable 'unity = no dissent' chorus starts up let me ask this question. 'Is the fact that the IAWM walks like a front and quacks like a front a help or a hinderance in building a broad anti-war movement?'

by mick burke - ballymun against the war Sat Feb 01, 2003 20:25 ballymunagainstwar at hotmail dot com

Ballymun against the war is not a front for the SWP.Local SWPers are involved ,as are Sinn Fein ,Labour, Green Party supporters and non-aligned people like myself.We want to keep the campaign as broad as possible. Although we are not formally part of the IAWM we will be holding a meeting on Tuesday night Feb 4 at seven o'clock in the AXIS centre where it will be proposed that we affiliate. The meeting is open to anybody with connections to the Ballymun area who want to get involved in the local the antiwar movement. Last Thursday's meeting was very successful ,attended by over 40 people (including supporters of the Socialist Party ).