INLA Statement on Strabane Attack

by iosaf Fri Nov 01, 2002 19:47

What do we do in the case of sexual crimes within anarchist communities?
rape, assault, paedophilia?
what do we do when guests leave syringes in beds?
We don´t go to the police.
now one of the problems we have with the police are the characters that become police. the same with prison warders.
I suspect it is often the same with "paramilitary" police as well.
These are difficult questions for anarchists.
And this isn´t the right place to discuss them.
But it seems to me one community is discussing its policy of "auto-policing", even if its means are repugnant to me, (I don´t like seeing guns, and the last time was by a cockney gangster in ´99 who quite quickly without police help busted our squat) but the question remains as I put it no? how do we police ourselves in extreme cases?

by pat c Fri Nov 01, 2002 17:15

i might not be a good drummer but i can squawk many a loyalist ditty.

"if guns were meant for shooting,
then rifles were meant to crack.
i've never seeen a better taig
than with a bullet in his back."

Written by the late lamented John McKeague, Loyalist & paedophile. Executed by the INLA 30 January 1982.

by Indy Head Fri Nov 01, 2002 17:08

Inside the head of an anarchist is bit scary. Although probably not as scary as meeting Pat in a dark alley while carrying a Lambeg drum

by Iosaf Fri Nov 01, 2002 16:41

Here we see an exchange between an IRSP/INLA republican and another of the Ireland Indymedia family. The issue is the use of violence.
Now I do not want to get involved in this particular issue (I suspect like many many others of the Irish indymedia family) but something has been troubling me for years, it is not news, therefore I can´t post a newswire article on it, but it is a "community" issue.
If we argue against "state violence", if we call for the end of "police and security force entity" "intimidation and persecution" of activists around the world we do so as "enlightened pacifists and thinking anarchists" [I´m talking about anarchists here]
However what happens when one of a community "goes out of line"?
Today I´m thinking about pension plans and old people, Tony O´Reily posted a "Zen budhism world solution" thing yesterday, that reminded me of the plight of many old anarchists.
If you will permit tell you a story.
In the 1990´s mostly in England but in Wales and Ireland as well, many road / development projects were faced by occupationist protesters. Activists went and lived on site and up trees to give direct action resistance against enviromental destruction and all it entailed. These protests were amongst the most important roots of "Reclaim the Streets!" I knew many of those protesters and one a man in his fifties by the turn of the century was still living in occupied housing in an anarcho-collective community in London. He had through years of "criminalisation" lost his "papers", "social security numbers" all those little things that help "normal life". Nothing strange in that, many anarchists become used to such. However one night at one of the free parties in London, [raving events which many will know are also important to the RTS movement] he "lost the plot". Free parties are "free" they are "self-policed", anarchists choose to be "peer-responsive" if there is a problem with someone´s behaviour we deal with it ourselves. That night a man who had earned great respect amongst many of his peers, on "losing the plot" almost killed another. This caused us great problems. What were we to do? The worst that can happen to an old anarchist is to be ostracised from his community. But it brings me (as rambling as always) to a question, if there are some who do not wish to see police forces ascribed or devolved moral and political authority to "judge wrongdoing and apply summary ´justice´" then how do we do it?
The most difficult aspects of anarcho-syndicalist social organisation seem to be such problems.
Now I don´t want to get involved in the "INLA/IRSP SF/IRA punishment issues" but they seem to me to skirt around issues of vital importance to all of us. IF a community does not accept a state´s police force, then how should it "police" itself?
I recall on many ocassions in occupied houses in Europe where I have had the privelage of being an assembly member the recurrent problems of "rule-breakers", the thieves, those who use hard-drugs in "non-hard-drug tolerant houses" and also many other types of anti-social behaviour. I recall with regret seeing people as "fucked up" as anyone else thrown out on to the street, I recall wondering to what ultimate point would violence when used in these circumstances serve. The communities within which I have lived have often been subject to attack by fascist elements. I often wondered was violence a justifiable response?
When I write or speak or "preach" as the intellectual I of course always pursue the "pacifist" line. Violence begets violence. I know that many of my anarchist comrades and perhaps myself would have for reason of our involvment in "free parties" "raves" and "drug decriminalisation issues" have found ourselves on the "anti-social behaviour lists".
Indeed the London fascists who killed our animals might have done so thinking they were protecting their communtities from "anti-social" behaviour by "foreign drugged up punks".
As an intellectual we can adopt many comfortable viewpoints on such conflicts, but really it isn´t very comfortable is it?

.....sorry for adding my little bit here.

by Danielle Ni Dhighe - Irish Republican Socialist Movement Fri Nov 01, 2002 16:39 danielle at irsm dot org

It certainly sounds as if certain people here have mistaken ideas on a great many things, particularly accusations of the INLA selling drugs and being involved in feuds.

No serving member of the INLA has ever been arrested, charged, or convicted on drug offences. Members of the IRSP and the INLA are known anti-drug activists, and earlier this year two senior members of the IRSP were invited to participate in a major anti-drug event in Dublin sponsored by a coalition of over 40 community groups.

The feud accusation has no basis in reality. On three occasions the IRSM has come under attack from counter-revolutionaries and/or those doing the dirty work of the British state.

by pat c Fri Nov 01, 2002 16:02

jesus, but i am sick of the juvenilia that passes for sarcasm on indymedia.

do you support the loyalist attacks on taigs?

do you believe people have the right to defend themselves from attacks by loyalist fascists?

or are you a typical imc pseudo pacifist pro imperialist?

by Em... Hello... Fri Nov 01, 2002 15:49

Hypocrisy - the art of condemning murder on one side committed by a specific organisation without condemning the brutal system of the world every time you open your mouth. This must mean you support the latter violence.

The innocents murdered by the world's imperialism are clearly very supportive of the INLA. Many's the time I have heard of slaves in plantations, prisoners in concentration camps, residents of refugee camps say "if only we had the INLA in our part of the world fighting for a unified socialist Ireland, keeping drugs of our streets and fighting against those pesky loyalists."

by pat c Fri Nov 01, 2002 14:56

"tell that to the relatives of the dead innocen"

you tell it to the countless thousands of victims of imperialism.

"its hard to believe that you actually try and justify the INLA's record"

i dont. there are many actions of the inla which i could not defend. but they pale in comparsion with the atrocities carried out by imperialism.

now run away home to mammy you hypocrite

by Dave D Fri Nov 01, 2002 14:45

The activities of the INLA was "the defensive violence of the oppressed" - what a complete load of bollox - tell that to the relatives of the dead innocent, most of the time you just killed each other in feuds and built up a criminal empire - if thats the defensive violence of the oppressed then I'm Willy Wonka, bloody hell, its hard to believe that you actually try and justify the INLA's record.

by pat c Fri Nov 01, 2002 14:35

"No I'm not, I'd be happy to watch you and your scumbag mates have your heads kicked in, (from behind a two way mirror of course "

typical of the craven imc hypocrites. you support imperialist violence but attack the defensive violence of the oppressed. you even believe stateviolence should be used against those you disagree with.

you won't take up the issue of imperialism because you are incapable of rational argument.

by Dave D Fri Nov 01, 2002 14:30

"you are typical of the pseudo pacifists of imc, you only condemn those who use reactive violence"

No I'm not, I'd be happy to watch you and your scumbag mates have your heads kicked in, (from behind a two way mirror of course - you'd probably come after me, sell me drugs, rob them back off me, burn my house, kill my cat, have sex with my hamster, and bury me alive - what you and you mates call legitimate political activity, or a typical Friday night out). And please spare us the "imperialism of the world" jargon crap - your politics are still up your arse.

by pat c Fri Nov 01, 2002 14:19

the real hypocrisy is your failure to refer to the amount of people killed throughout the world by imperialism in the same period.

but you are typical of the pseudo pacifists of imc, you only condemn those who use reactive violence.

you still haven't explained how you speak on behalf of the irish people. perhaps you look into your gall bladder?

by Dave D Fri Nov 01, 2002 14:09

"How dare I speak on behalf of the country" - I know, what a scandal.

What is more of a scandal is that a load of thugs calling themselves the Irish National Liberation Army used to go around claiming to act in the interests of the nation and the working classes brutally killing and mutilating people, (invariably from their own side) and running crime rings etc etc etc. How dare I....the hyprocracy would be almost comical if it werent for the fact that so many were killed.

by pat c Fri Nov 01, 2002 14:00

so now dave d speaks on behalf of everyone in ireland? what does he do? look inside his heart? certainly not his brain.

by Dave D Fri Nov 01, 2002 13:50

"irrelevant fool" - sorry I forgot that the INLA were the most relevant, wise and enlightened organisation in the country, how stupid of me. Bloody hell, everybody in ireland thinks they're a gang of gobshites. Defending the common man - yeah right.

by Dave D Fri Nov 01, 2002 12:56

What a pathetic statement issued by the worst kind of mindless thugs. Who the fuck do they think they are? You are all assholes and should be locked up to rot for the rest of your lives.