Freedom of speech again attacked in Dail

by hold your fire Thu Oct 24, 2002 23:42

Lets take the labour shits advice and get them in 4 years time, lets target any marginal labour seat and expose the fake rabbit labour party. Hopefully working class people will see through the sell outs and they will only get blueshirt transfers

by jak Wed Oct 23, 2002 23:30

Parliament doesn't exist if that's the case!

by OK - SP Wed Oct 23, 2002 17:04

I've no illusions in the Dáil. They make up their own rules in that fucking place.

They will change the rules as it suits them. Joe Higgins was suspended for a month for demanding the right to speak at the time of Nice Treaty I. They introduced the rule that 7 TDs are needed, that was something that could not be changed, even though 3 of the 5 opposition parties have under 7 TDs. However all of a sudden with the help of the "Labour" Party the rules have been changed to block the Technical Group.

The Dail and the position of TD gives revolutionaries an excellant platform. I think it's ultra leftist to agrue against running for Parliamentry positions.

by Andrew Wed Oct 23, 2002 16:53

From the 1850s onwards, against a background of great new wealth in society and a working class that was more independent and resourceful, the 'problem of democracy' became urgent for the rich and powerful. In general wealth was rising throughout society, but so was the greed of those who owned the new factories, mines and plantations. The key question was: what was to be done about the general demand for democracy, and about the incessant clamour for political rights which, during the revolutions of 1848, had almost got completely out of hand?

Maintaining their privilege and wealth while generally conceding a semblance of democracy was the principal aim of the 'rich and privileged' during the second half of the 19th century. Parliament is a means of diffusing democracy, of channelling real struggles into a safe dead-end. Time and time again it has become a graveyard for the workers' movement.

Read on at the link below

by Eamon the Anarchist Wed Oct 23, 2002 13:48

Maybe the SP, Greens and others are finally waking up to reality. At one stage 4 TDs were required to get recognised as a group and have speaking time guaranteed. At the time the WP had 2 TDs. Then they got 4 elected in 1987. The rules were changed again and a group was deemed to be 7. They got 7 in 1989. This made certain people in the Dail (Labour in particular) very angry. Dick Spring and Ruairi Quinn made it their mission to destroy the WP. We all know what happened next...

As Ken Livingstone said, If voting changed anything they'd abolish it.

by Daithi Wed Oct 23, 2002 13:15

I haven't seen the transcript so could some tell me, was the reduction in Bertie-time and the change about the Technical Group part of the same plan? It won't go on the web until later or tomorrow (hey, we live in the NOW world...)

Something seems a little fishy about all this. And what Maura says is true but everyone (i.e. the non-Blueshirt opposition) should have refused to deal with the Dail's business until the party recognition rules were changed and it's a disgrace that a party of six deputies is forced to engage in this sham of a technical group. The WP had to do the same thing at one stage and it's not a viable solution.

by Maura Wed Oct 23, 2002 12:48

It's very simple. Speaking time should be allocated in proportion to the number of members. When the technical group was set up (including Michael Lowry) it had 22 members while Labour have 21. Does anyone believe that the group, a "party", is the third largest party in the Dail? If the smaller parties were allowed to have party status in their own right none of this stuff would be necessary. Joe Higgins and Michael "Extension" Lowry are not in the same political party. If the group got to speak first and for longer that would mean Lowry, or any of the independents, would be recognised as the second opposition to the government.

THAT's undemocratic.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Wed Oct 23, 2002 11:16 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Labour collaborators passed it amongst much waving and shouting and screaming and calling of names. You've never seen a more smug, self-satisfied group of Labour hacks in your life :)