Celtic anti racist gig in Bray

by Andrew Mon Oct 21, 2002 14:46

I don't get how a benefit for Holy Cross School, Ardoyne can be described as an anti-racist one unless you are buying into the UDA/GR line that catholics in the north are being attacked because they are 'Irish'. Seriously the cause is worth supporting but using 'anti-racism' as a description here is accepting a pretty dodgy set of arguments - a bit beyond two nationism in fact! Wouldn't 'anti-sectarian' be better?

by Andrew Mon Oct 21, 2002 15:04

Pat I'm not suggesting the UDA etc are anti-racist organisations! Nor am I denying that some sections like to use the language of racial conflict (eg 'Irish Out') rather then religous conflict (eg 'Taifs Out'). What I'm saying is that WE should not fall into the trap of using the same terms for what is actually an attempt to MANUFACTURE 'racial/national' differences from a sectarian conflict.

This should be ABC for exactly the same reasons that you would almost certainly argue against describing the situation as being one of 'two nations'. I'm quibbling on this because it is an area of great interest to me, see for instance the article on 1798 I link which ends with a discussion of this point, one brief quote from this below

"The rewriting of the history of 1798 by loyalists and nationalists alike has a common purpose, which is to define being 'Irish' as containing a requirement to being a Catholic. The greatest defeat of 1798 is the success of this project, in particular after partition when the southern and northern states adopted opposed confessional definitions of themselves. One legacy of that failure is that in 1998 we not only live on a divided island but that the vast majority of our hospitals and schools are either Catholic or Protestant."

by Mags Mon Oct 21, 2002 15:36

It is only a gig for a good cause. This is what the organisers called it. Neither myself, Pat or anyone in Dublin is an organiser. The organisers are the Micahel Davitt CSC in Wicklow. Bring it up with them.

Personally I think broadening out the issue and appealing to people on the basis of anti-racism as well as anti-sectarianism is a good thing. Perhaps if people get active and raise awareness of this issue it will motivate them to also actively oppose racism against immigrants and others.

by pat c Mon Oct 21, 2002 15:38

the working class celtic supporters will no doubt be won over by your undoubted wisdom.

when you are in belfast at the grass roots mtg, take time out to go the ardoyne.

i'm sure the people there will accept your analysis, throw out the tricolour & raise the red & black standard.

by Andrew Mon Oct 21, 2002 15:49

Guys you are being way too defensive here about what I said was a quibble. You haven't joined the SWP recently have you? Anyway I've stayed in North Belfast on the peace line on a number of occasions in the last couple of years so I don't feel I have to prove my 'credibility' on this. And I have made exactly the same general points to people there. Words are a weapon, we need to be careful of how we use them.

by pat c Mon Oct 21, 2002 16:04

oh dear! its red herring time from andrew again. i disagree with so that means i must have joined the swp.

you were the one who started this qubbling, dear boy.

by Another Quibble Tue Oct 22, 2002 21:05

As we all know no such thing as 'race' actually exists thus Andrew should be complaining about everything described as 'anti-racist' because it's accepting the racist argument. Yup and that makes about as much sense as the first comment on this matter.

by Andrew Thu Oct 24, 2002 11:22

Look if people can't see the political problem with using 'Irish' and 'Catholic' interchangably then you've been sleeping though 'republicanism for beginners' never mind 'advanced socialism'. Oh and not only do 'races' have no onjective existance. neither do 'nations' or 'religions' so from that point of view the whole discussion is daft.