Student Strike

by Peader Thu Mar 19, 2009 15:07

1) Education benefits mostly one sector of society
2) If education is a right, not a privilege then why are most of the politicians, lawyers, barristers and some teachers educated in private schools?
3)Introducing fees was never about 'introduc[ing] better education services', its about getting some money off the 200,000 millionaires.
4)There has been little to no increase from poorer areas since fees were abolished, which was one scare tactic promptly used by the ''anti-fee movement''. Also, the anti-fee movement only uses other countries as examples when it suits them. Theres no mention of other countrie's taxation systems.
5)Since the fees were abolished hundreds of millionaires (who probably avoid tax) have sent there teens to third level education using tax payer money (which they may never have paid).
6)'This is likely to happen'. So are a lot of things. I could sit here and type things that might, or are 'likely' to happen.
7)Fair taxation system? Our governments get elected by how they run the taxati0on system. All our governments have lowered taxes. Why, I ask, would they change the fundamental 'workings' of our system (Low taxes) that gave our country the economic boom?

''Funding an equitable education system pays back in so many ways, but making cuts in the wrong places can cause irreparable damage. We must ensure that both the quality and cultural value of our education system is protected while at the same time, ensuring people from all walks of life have equal access to educational opportunities.''

Whats this got to do with anything? The way it is now does not ''ensure[ing] people from all walks of life have equal access to educational opportunities'. Therefore I say, introduce fees for the rich. Then we get lots of money back. Or, we can dream and hope the taxation system that gave Ireland all of its wealth and has worked perfectly for the people in positions of power will be changed by the very people who benefit from the current system. Third level students need a good kick in the rear. Did anyone know all the universities an Spain are occupied at the moment? No? Maybe because our so-called union of students in Ireland didn't mention it to us. Heres what we should do. Every university in Ireland should be occupied, and we should demand the taxation system is radically transformed. Until then, I will not support a small propagandist group (FEE) or the defunct SUI. I will support the reintroduction of fees because the student body is really just useless and lazy. (that is, most of them...)

by UCD Student Thu Mar 19, 2009 15:16

-If anything, I agree what you say at the end. The government and ruling class will only change with pressure. I bet the rich are sitting at home laughing at the students protesting against the reintroduction of third level fees; they are the ones who will have to pay.I dont really think its the best idea to introduce fees but until the USI puts forward a real argument to sway me, I dont see another solution. As Peader said, occupy the uni's and demand a better taxation system. Thats not too much to ask, or is the student body really too lazy? We shall see.....

by Jay Thu Mar 19, 2009 15:32

http://www.corkindependent.com/local-news/local-news/uc...wn--/

by hb Thu Mar 19, 2009 16:22

"Our governments get elected by how they run the taxati0on system. All our governments have lowered taxes. Why, I ask, would they change the fundamental 'workings' of our system (Low taxes) that gave our country the economic boom?"

Yes and this is also in large part to blame for where we currently stand with regards the recession, to quote from another article "these income tax cuts had not been balanced by increasing corporate tax, or other taxes on the rich. The balance was being made up by stamp duty and VAT on what was very obviously an unsustainable property boom, the collapse of the boom means that as predicted the funds have vanished."

Housing in the most part doesn't create wealth but merely moves it around, we can see this too in the amount of builders currently seeking liquidation and declaring bankruptcy. If anything the fact the boom lasted so long is remarkable. We don't have a progressive or fair tax system in Ireland. A 20/40 tax band is not equivalent. Low taxes and high indirect taxes aren't going to solve our current economic problems. What is, is a highly skilled and educated workforce. Everywhere else in the world is talking about the transission towards the creative/smart/knowledge economy, everywhere except Ireland. An introduction of third level fees is not going to assist in that, if anything it will only hinder.

We are currently seeing an attack on third level institutions, staff, lecturing staff and students because mainly this government hasn't got a fucking clue what to do, is incapable of making the hard decisions needed due to its own political power base (not the cumann :p but the developers and bankers) and has been interested in remaining in power and maintaining the staus quo for far too long.

Hopefully, all of this is only a start and a sign of an increase in both student anger and self activity, so that it will only be a matter of time until university occupations and assemblies become the norm in Ireland, catching up with the rest of Europe.

by Garda Dave Fri Mar 20, 2009 13:08

So, as some people may be aware of, though it would seem not so much in insular Ireland and its even more insular students, there's been a HUGE wave of student protests in both Itlay and Spain in the last few months. Coupled with a ruling class 'anxiety', shall we say, in most of Europe over the events in Greece, the cops are going in hard. Some videos and other links

Barcelona
http://blip.tv/file/1891860
http://blip.tv/file/1891138
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40tS0H3RpbA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Ds7RbImqk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tIIeQr3F4
http://www.tv3.cat/videos/1092159/Els-professors-donen-...iants
http://www.tv3.cat/videos/1092129/El-rector-ordena-desa...la-UB

Rome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB4gqzJQevs
http://www.uniriot.org/foto18.html

Respect for the police is on the wain. But by jesus not in Ireland if I have anything to say or do about it.

by Speller. Fri Mar 20, 2009 13:13

You mean "on the WANE".

A wain is an old word for a cart .
("Haywain"= Hay cart.)

by Ginsberg Fri Mar 20, 2009 20:48

The last time UCDSU organised a lakeside rally, it had to be called off after 5 minutes because nobody showed up. Now, on a day when the college will be shutdown, they decide to hold another lakeside rally. If the staff are out on strike and everything is closed, who is the protest targetted at? While the vote on the referendum is positive, mindlessly repeating unsuccesful tactics, like a rally by the lake, is a road to defeat.

by Godot - UCD FEE Fri Mar 20, 2009 20:59

"Every university in Ireland should be occupied, and we should demand the taxation system is radically transformed. Until then, I will not support a small propagandist group (FEE)"

One of FEEs main points is that we call for education to be paid for by a radical transformation of the tax system. It was the group behind the referendum to shut down UCD & UCC and was involved in an occupation of the Green Party spokesperson for education earlier this year. It has consistently called for more direct action, such as occpations, from USI and local SUs during the year.

The name of the national union is USI, not, SUI as you have repeated on various indymedia posts, under various names (hint: it's a giveaway when you're the only person consistently making the same mistake)

by Jay Sat Mar 21, 2009 16:36

Saturday, March 21, 2009
Students at UCD to stage anti-fees strike on March 30th

THOUSANDS OF students at University College Dublin are to stage a one-day strike on March 30th against the re-introduction of fees.

The action will consist of a lunchtime rally at the Belfield campus as well as talks and social activities.

The “education shutdown” is being organised by the college’s students’ union. The union was mandated to organise strike action in a referendum passed by students earlier this month. The proposal was put forward by anti-fee activists from the Free Education for Everyone (Fee) campaign.

Staff at the university look set to take part in the Irish Congress of Trade Unions strike on the same day. This means that students will not be boycotting classes because there will not be any taking place. Julian Brophy of Fee said March 30th was the best day to hold the strike to ensure there was a successful shutdown of the university.

The Union of Students in Ireland (USI) does not yet have plans to stage an all-Ireland student strike on the same day. However it will make an announcement in the next few days, a spokeswoman said yesterday.

Some 20,000 undergraduate and postgraduate UCD students will be affected by the action.

Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe indicated this week that no new system of fees would be brought in until 2010. He said this would not affect students currently in the system.

by Keynesian Sat Mar 21, 2009 17:27

"Housing doesn't create wealth but moves it around" says "hb".

In the "Dismal Science", Economics ,Housing IS wealth hb.

The wealth-value of housing,or anything else we value, is measured in units we call "money".
Money is just bits of paper,currency notes etc., we write the wealth-value of something like housing on.

The Americans are about to print (create from nothing) a Trillion dollar bills right now to try to kick start their faltering economy.

Technically,they are re-calibrating the wealth of the American economy.

The bits of paper themselves,the "greenbacks", are just "symbols".

by Conor. M Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:23

I presume that post was for me because I'm the only student in the country who thinks differently to you. That post wasnt me, I have too much shit going on in my life, I honestly dont care about fees. Its the last thing on my mind.

Do you really think I'm sad enough to use false names? I'm not afraid to speak my mind...

by Conor. M Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:33

Its looks like fees are coming anyway... Who knows what that scum O Keefe will do. He knew fees were coming in for months but he waited till the last second to say it wont affect students already in college, sneaky rat. I suppose most students wont care because they wont be affected. I hope FEE keeps going, I dont disagree with every little thing yous say. Its good to see the student body active.

Occupy the universities in solidarity with the workers and demand a change to taxes, fuck the ''U S I'' : )

by Conor. M Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:48

....one more thing Godot, I looked over my comments with regard to fees. I didnt see me saying SUI even once. Whats the point in trying to make me look bad? Does it make you feel better?

by Godot Sun Mar 22, 2009 14:21

"It's seems the SUI (student union of Ireland) is really becoming complacent. I know some work hard but, damn, they really need to get the finger out. Sorry if I offended any SUI members."

by Conor. M Sun Mar 22, 2009 20:23

I stand corrected. Still, relax there with your ''consistently making the same mistake'' comment. One stupid mistake. And it really looks stupid looking back at it.

by Ed Galligan Mon Mar 23, 2009 08:26

I must say I agree wholeheartedly with every one of your 7 points, yet none convince me that fees should not be re-introduced.

I will ignore points 1 and 2 as they have no relevance in this argument.

The rest:
3. Nor is there is evidence that reintroducing fees would degrade education services or infrastructure. It will however increase public finances - the management/mismanagement of those finances is a completely independent issue.
4., 5. I am vehemently opposed to a graduate tax as this will, as you say, have a detrimental effect on subject choice.
6. This is a travesty, and I would gladly take to the streets to oppose anything similar were it ever proposed here.
7. True, the very wealthy should pay for education. Any economist will tell you though that bureaucracy adds cost and decreases efficiency. The most effective way of reducing bureaucracy is direct taxation - on top of the inherent inefficiencies, the current situation where half the wealthiest people in this country are paying little or no tax is not likely to change any time soon no matter how much lobbying is done by FEE on tax reform.