"No to Lisbon" Campaign Launch

by Con Carroll Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:58

the disgrace of the Labour party preformance at yesterdays forum on Europe
was eye opener. their alliance with PDS FG was something to see.

off course people attending who opposed the treaty put across their points. Sf Councillor Daithi Doolan. Joe Higginns, Maire Ni Begeley.
Patricia Mc Kenna. the attacks against Mep member Reter Bonden was something else

then came swaggering in was Dick Roache FF. this charachter is one too watch.
Bonden was asked his views on the Pope's statements on Europe. the so called champion of the liberal agenda raise the abortion issue. which has no place in this political debate

Deiordre De Burca views on Irish youth European identity. one would love to open the bank accounts of DeRossa. Mc GUinness FG.
does Sexton of the PDs not recall that the PDs were smashed during the 2007 elections.

we should stand in solidarity with the millions of people who experience political, economic social alienation. standing with the rights of people to be members of trade unions. against exploitation

our work is cut out for us in theis referendum. we can be the right politcal agenda. if we stand together on Europe for political accountabilty social justice. Peace. standing up to war-mongers

V OTE NO

by davekey Fri Mar 07, 2008 18:30

Sorry messed up the embed, here's the link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-42917704894725...dex=1

by Don Fri Mar 07, 2008 20:09

You let people know that the link is something "we are change Ireland" produced. Its really hard to know of they are serious, or just making fun of the hard left.

Its not a documentary, its propaganda. Theres valid reasons to be against the treaty, but they're not mentioned by the looney no side.

by Caroline Mulqueen Fri Mar 14, 2008 07:21 c.mulqueen at crestnova dot eu

The fact that leaders of member states are unable to read and understand this treaty is in itself enough reason for a no vote.

Why on earth should the people of Ireland give up their right to vote when they struggled so long and hard against this very same styled tyranny to gain the vote?

How many times have insurance companies and other financial institutions ripped people off just because they were unable to correctly interpret the small print.?

This treaty will be no different.

Whether this video propaganda is neither here nor there. It is a fact that the treaty is Incomprehensible to our ministers and therefore should not be agreed too.

by redjade Fri Mar 14, 2008 13:20

Merkel to travel to Ireland for EU treaty vote
14.03.2008

''German chancellor Angela Merkel is to travel to Ireland next month to help persuade Irish citizens to vote yes in the country's referendum on the EU treaty....Ms Merkel due to make the visit on 14 April.''

more at
http://euobserver.com/9/25834?rss_rk=1

by davekey Fri Mar 14, 2008 18:02

"You let people know that the link is something "we are change Ireland" produced. Its really hard to know of they are serious, or just making fun of the hard left.

Its not a documentary, its propaganda. Theres valid reasons to be against the treaty, but they're not mentioned by the looney no side."

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, can you explain what you mean by propoganda and looney. Everything in the video is backed up and uses valid arguments from MEPs and other experts. Also what are these mysterious valid reasons that only you seem to know about?

by Don Fri Mar 14, 2008 19:19

First I'll describe Looney. Take a look at the no side. Far left groups like, SWP, SP,WSM and other various anti-democracy groups from the left. Far-right groups, Libertas and over the top anti-imigrstion groups. On of that Sinn Fein and groups that think Sinn Fein arent extreme enough. The worst the yes side have is FF. I dont like them, but they're still better than the above mentioned groups.

I'm not going to watch an hour of some random non-sense from a group that thinks having a heated debate with some means, heckling them and then running away. The starting line is something like, "we started doing a documentary on the Lisbon treaty, but instead we found that it was just something "the people" rejected before". Cant remember what he said. Something like that.

The only valid arguement in see in the Lisbon debate is either, isolutionist or internationalist, pro-british vs true republicans(SF dont count), anti-Europe vs pro-Europe.

Theres part of the treaty I dont like but they are fixable. I'm lauching a campaign if the Treaty is passed to fix the democratic issues I have with the EU, ironically that can only be done if the Treaty is passed. At the end of the day I'd rather a large economic and political force of 500 million, rather than the current 250 somthing million lobby group that currently rules the world. And that massive dictatorship with the force of billions of disposable people is also a worry.

by G.D.Flynn - International Republican Fri Mar 14, 2008 19:32 flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot com

Not Only does it dilute, weaken and circumvent the Bureacht na h;Ereann,it erases the form of Erins Neutrality ,it ensures that ANY future Amendments can be out voted on by Quantative Majority Voting on any subject ,Contrary to the "Bureacht",it also endorses the GAS Giveaway at Corrib in County Mayo,so dont come to me when the infrastructure is,nt in place,Schools,Hospitals,Universities,Old Folks Homes,Tech Colleges,Pensions,Road,Rail, Utilities infrastructures and the rest of it because you will have to go to Brussels to get your money back.Most of all you will lose the CONSTITUTION which is,nt yours to LOSE,you are the Custodians of it. I cant ask you to vote,I can only advise you to vote NO,theres more to this than the City Slicks are telling yer ! We Luv You CORKIE !
POP Flynn O Flynn

by Don Fri Mar 14, 2008 20:05

The EU cant veto the Irish consitution. EU only supersedes Irish legislative law. But that has nothing to do with the Treaty. We signed that away decades ago. Theres no point turning our back away on something we knew that was going to happen years ago. Any "kinks" in the treaty can be fixed. A treaty of such epic historic proportions cant please everybody. Thats what democracy does. Its about compremise.

by G.D.Flynn - International Republican Fri Mar 14, 2008 20:18 flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot com

Don,the Dutch,French,Polish,British and Danes are ALL at the Barricade on this one
Trade Unions,to Republicans to Barons Lords Thanes Thunes and even Prunes,Im not the smartest pencil in the BOX,but theres a lot of unanswered questions,Democratic Deficits so please look at this lot again,the European Borders are at the same place as they were in 1942,everything in Europe is getting bigger,"Even the mistakes",dont trade a hard won Constitution, and our Gas and Oil for a Multinational three card trick.

by Frank Fri Mar 14, 2008 20:22

But isn't that the problem Don, the Treaty does not wish to utilize democracy to change itself, it doesn't want referendums to ratify amendments it wants some form of internal mechanism which invariably means control by the larger states. One mans kink is another mans common defence policy.

by davekey Sat Mar 15, 2008 06:06

"I'm not going to watch an hour of some random non-sense from a group that thinks having a heated debate with some means, heckling them and then running away"

So you're commenting on a video you haven't even watched... unbelievable

"The only valid arguement in see in the Lisbon debate is either, isolutionist or internationalist, pro-british vs true republicans(SF dont count), anti-Europe vs pro-Europe."

Of course it's always two choices isn't it ...black or white, you're either with us or with the terrorists.

" I'm lauching a campaign if the Treaty is passed to fix the democratic issues I have with the EU, ironically that can only be done if the Treaty is passed.

And you want to fix the democratic issues with the eu after the treaty is shoved down peoples throats with no referenda in 26 countries. Yeah I wonder who the real loonies are.

by Don Sat Mar 15, 2008 13:33

I trid watching it but its too bad. "we set to make a documentary about the lisbon treaty, but found something much worse". Its obviously propaganda. After 2 mins I had to stop.We are Change Ireland, are awfull. Everything they do is stupid.

by G.D.Flynn - International Republican Sat Mar 15, 2008 20:28 flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot com 188 burghsliussingel 3086 vg Rotterdam

From what Ive read and from what I,ve understood,The Lisbon Treaty formally the Constitution allows within it the Amalgamation of all other Treaties before it,remember that the Maasdricht treaty was signed by 6 republics and 6 monarchies (who own manage and control ALL of Europes Oil/Gas Past/Present and Future) I,m a retired Oil/Gas Msc Engineer.My contention therefore is that the Bureacht is Sovereign ? not so if this treaty is amended and Eire cannot out vote 26/1 members,also the Agreement which Eire has already signed under the Bureact was it Constitutionally legal ? will the Gas/Oil agreement have to be re Negotiated under the Lisbon Treaty ? or will the Bureacht still remain the Sovereign Legal Instrument of Eire ? or will someone have to challenge this in a Constitutional Court in Eire ?
Having Dutch,French, Irish,British family (along with Ausie/Canadians etc)
we are all interested in this Political Vote most if not all having voted NO in three Countries already,but we are not Anti European ! but thats not what we are all SAYING,
Eire would be Politically Naive to go back to the 1800,s and place itself under a bigger
Totalitarian setup than the one that took my Grandfather years to get rid of down Conakilty way.You can download all the Treaties on the Web,Ive read the lot many times over the years,and I dont know where all this is going.
Thank you for your time,and your effort
Warmest Regards
Grandad Flynn G.D.
Flynn O Flynn
The Treaty Should also be written in Gaelic,so as not to confuse the Bureach na h'Ereann as it also says that IN IT SPECIFICALLY,Eire will lose a lot more than its Constitution,it will lose its Revenues,its Control,its Courts,its Administration,Eire is now the Gulliver of Europe in more ways than one.

by davekey Sun Mar 16, 2008 02:24

The referendum bill:

"NO PROVISION OF THIS CONSTITUTION invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by membership of the European Union, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State."

If this treaty is passed you can throw your Constitution in the bin because it will be worthless. Our treasonous politicians are selling it out and we will be left at the mercy of the European Court of Justice. This is one of the greatest Constitutions in the world and has served us well for 50 years but the they don't give a f**k about it.

Sadly this is what our nation has become :(

by ec Sun Mar 16, 2008 03:11

I'd disagree with the last post simply on his idea that the Bunreacht served us well for fifty years. It didn't. It held this country back. Until 1973, the Roman Catholic Church held a 'special position' in Irish society; recognised as such in our Constitution. Until 1992, providing information on abortion, and traveling to another state for the procurement of an abortion, was illegal under this Constitution. The document is still riddled with Old Ireland references to women in the home, and Church walking hand-in-hand with the State. See Article 44.1 'The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion.'
Anyway, that's my two cents.

by TJ Sun Mar 16, 2008 08:02

I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man: including the Lisbon Treaty.

by G.D.Flynn - International Republican Sun Mar 16, 2008 19:54 flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot com

Find your best friends to scrutinize all the Treaties from the Web,they are loading the YES vote in their favour, this will betray everything in our History,forget the 1916 blogg,this is going on behind their back.

by Brehon Sun Mar 16, 2008 21:51

It was the same at the most ancient period as it was in the beginning of the seventeenth century, when Sir John Davies--an Englishman--the Irish attorney-general of James I., testified:--"For there is no nation of people under the sunne that doth love equall and indifferent [i.e. impartial] justice better then the Irish; or will rest better satisfied with the execution thereof, although it bee against themselves: so as they may have the protection and benefit of the law, when uppon just cause they do desire it." But later on the Penal Laws changed all that, and turned the Irish natural love of justice into hatred and distrust of law, which in many ways continues to manifest itself to this day.

by davekey Mon Mar 17, 2008 02:26

"1 All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirments of the common good."

Some people get caught up in the word God in this article, however I believe it's the inate sense of the common good that we all have, striving to make a better society and advance our civilization. This article is what sets it apart from other Constitutions where the sovereignty lies in the elected representatives.

One of the great things about our Constitution is that it's easy to ready and can be carried around in your pocket. What we are voting for is a constitution based on 3000 pages of treaties that is incomprehensible and doesn't have our rights enshrined, but for some people this is considered progress and the way forward.

Others don't see how our Constitution has served us because they have taken it for granted, for example we can invoke article 40 under the european arrest warrant while the citizens of other countries are at the mercy of their judiciary.

Considering that we are the only country out of 27 to vote on this stupid treaty(constitution) it surely says a lot about what we're asking to give up.

by We the People Mon Mar 17, 2008 22:39

Hey Don, what have 'you' done about the Treaty that is not stupid?

The Don fails to see that this ,so amazing Democratic (mob rule ) stuff is the best thing since sliced bread. That , if only 20% turn out to vote, 11 can decide what form of dictator can rule the rest of us (amazing thing this democracy).

But,even this will be overun by a Fascist E.U. United States of Europe if this Treaty is ratified.
Don, you really need to do a Course in this stuff. At least see the Documentary in full and post an informed opinion.

The People at we are change and wiseupjournal seek to persue a middle objective.

This Left and Right lark is designed to keep People confused , and it's designers are doing a dam good Job.

by Don Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:29

How is the EU fascist or a dictatorship?

by Mark Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:40

The Lisbon Treaty is a treaty which moves legislative powers away from national parliaments and directly elected politicians, and moves them to unelected politicians in the Commission/Politburo and Council.

Why does Europe not revolt against this attack on parliamentary democracy? The EU has always attacked national democracy so why do Europeans not stand up against the EU to save democracy?

by Vercingetorix Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:02

Because "Julius Caesar" type thinking has never really left European politics for very long during the past 2000 years or so, or world politics either for that matter.

Now this "big-ego" (or "Super Ego") associated kind of "empire building" looks set to be hugely (and irreversibly!!) boosted by the Lisbon Treaty, in addition of course to boosting the Pied Piper class of "public servants" (so called) who are at present busy hoodwinking gullible voters into cutting their own throats.

The despots and plutocrats of Europe (and the rest of the world) want "government of the corrupt, by the corrupt, for the corrupt": which is sadly very different to the "unfinished work" of GENUINE democrats such as, for example, ASSASSINATED former United States President Abraham Lincoln.

"-- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth --"

by Curious Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:06

"Why does Europe not revolt against this attack on parliamentary democracy?"
Why should we care about an attack on parlimentary democracy- Why would stopping it being replaced by a european democracy change anything?

by Cockney Rebel Tue Mar 18, 2008 18:31

Lisbon Tready ain't worf a shite.

EU President Tony Blair - on yer bike mate!

by Boudica Thu Mar 20, 2008 08:20

Vercingetorix is correct (see Mar 18, 2008 12:02 above).

Don't forget the way that I, my two daughters, and the whole Iceni Celtic people were treated by the Roman Empire.

Queen "Boudica was flogged and her daughters raped, ... " see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica for more on my particular story.