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Eamon Ryan bottles out of debate in UCD when chalenged by Shell 2 Sea protesters

category national | anti-capitalism | news report author Tuesday October 30, 2007 23:39author by E - UCD Shell 2 Seaauthor email ucdshelltosea at gmail dot com Report this post to the editors

On yer bike Eamon

A successful protested took place this evening in UCD where Shell to Sea activists took on both the government and the Shell Corporation in the space of one evening.

The protest was called by UCD Shell to Sea when it was revealed that the Shell Corporation was giving a careers lecture this evening at 6pm in UCD Student Centre. Around 40 protesters gathered at 6pm outside the Astra Hall where the lecture was held. Banners and posters highlighting the crimes of Shell and the Garda in Erris Co. Mayo were on display. Several members of UCD security services and two gardai were present to protect Shell. Some of the activists engaged with students entering the talk by pointing out what Shell are doing to the people of Erris. When hearing this some students decided not to cross the picket line while about 10 students entered the talk.

At 6.45 the protesters felt their point was well made to Shell and decided that the next port of call would be a Law Society debate sceduled for 7pm. The debate entitled ‘This house believes the wrong government was elected’ was due to hear speeches from both Brian Cowan and Eamon Ryan. Biffo was a no show obviously believing that bailing out his old chum Michael Woods was more important that blowing hot air with the Law soc kids. The Shell to Sea activists congregated outside Theatre M in the Arts block, where they awaited the arrival of Eamon Ryan. When the Green Party Minister appeared circled by the special branch and UCD security. The Shell to Sea activists began to chant ‘Shame!’ and ‘Shell to Sea!’. Ryan who no doubt was embarrassed by his lack of action on the issue bottled it and ran for the nearest exit deciding that tonight was not the night to deal with concerned students and citizens over the theft of our natural resources, garda brutality and environmental destruction in Rossport. No doubt rattled by the fact that before the election he would have been standing with us against Shell, while now with the Greens in government he is defending their actions in Mayo.

After Ryan left a Shell to Sea meeting took place upstairs in the Arts block. All and all it was a successful protest which managed to get the issues of Shell to Sea raised directly with both Shell and the Government in one night.

Fair play to all involved, see you on Novermber 9th in Rossport where the struggle will continue.

Related Link: http://www.shelltosea.com
author by Pidgepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 00:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

That's a real gem, that. For an actual account, which various people (including FG, FF, Greens and unaligned) can account for, check out the story on Politics.ie

Related Link: http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=28077
author by JMpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 00:16author address Rossportauthor phone Report this post to the editors

Well done to the economic folk at UCD, two birds with the one stone!

While Shell got the message (again) in the capital and Eamon Ryan decided to exit stage left, back in the wild woods of Mayo the locals were again disrupting Shell's unauthorised test-drilling on the defunct pipeline route.

One protester managed to squirm under the drilling gear and stop work once more (this has been going on for two weeks now) and the heroic new Superintendent Gilligan stepped in to save the day. He crawled on his belly under the machine, through the muck, to clear the way for Shell.

No doubt Shell's head of ExPro Malcolm Brinded will again be thanking the Gardai for their sterling work, who are showing they have no shame at all when it comes to serving their masters.

At least the cops seem to have more stomach for their work, but they literally cannot get any lower.

Guard of "honour"
Guard of "honour"

eight million Euro and rising
eight million Euro and rising

Related Link: http://www.shelltosea.com/
author by .publication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 00:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The above comment by Pidge (Green Party members) claims his comment on the right with website politics.ie is unbiased. Please ignore him and his comments the above article was made by someone who was at the whole event.

remember this Eamon
remember this Eamon

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 00:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Well done to all involved in targetting both Shell and State in one evening.

Checked that politics.ie site - so typically anal isn't it?!

author by Starstruck - WSM (pers cap)publication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 01:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Great work to all involved.
You need determination,values and moral strength to stand up to scurrilous foes like Shell and the state,something the keyboard warriors of politics.ie are completely lacking in.
Shell to Sea want whats best for the Irish people,right-wing junior-execs just want the status quo.
Onwards!

author by Apparat - ISN - pcpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 08:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Those of us on the far left have more in common with most people than the insular politics.ie posters. 7 threads in under 12 hours - do these people get any sleep. Were they Autonomistas or Marxists, the question would be asked as to weather they have any jobs to go to. I can't say I read the whole lot, but I did see Dan O'Neills comment, which well explains why nothing more challenging to authority than a strongly worded letter has kicked off in UCD for years.
Eamonn Ryan wasn't threatned. And I don't mean that like the way the Rossport 5 were locked up, and locals beaten up in Mayo. I mean that nobody threatned any violence against him or his dinky little car. He approached the door to the theatre, waited 5 seconds while chants were led against him, then turned around and walked back through the Arts block , ending up around the Maths dept. He was flanked by a number of special branch and some of UCD's hired muscle. 2 branchers pushed, shoved, and threatened the crowd in a manner that would cause a moral panic back on politics ie.

So that's all that happened. Later on in the night, we saw one lawsoc sap attaching clothspegs to his face, and another turning off all the lights to prop up a shit joke. We made the point to Ryan that we didn't welcome the presence of a yogurt eating hypocrite on campus, and did so pretty successfully.

He never made any attempt to engage with us. He just grimaced the whole way back on his walk of shame.

Don't you have a job to go to, or do you spend all night on politics.ie ?
Don't you have a job to go to, or do you spend all night on politics.ie ?

Related Link: http://irishsocialist.net
author by MacEpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 09:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Here's a man with a job to go to. And, boy is he grateful to Fianna Fáil for it. Pity he wouldn't do it like he said he would. Where are all these LawSoc peg-stuffers when due process is being (literally) thrown into the ditch in Mayo?

What's changed, Eamon?
What's changed, Eamon?

Related Link: http://www.publicinquiry.ie
author by antibullypublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 09:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"He approached the door to the theatre, waited 5 seconds while chants were led against him, then turned around and walked back through the Arts block , ending up around the Maths dept. He was flanked by a number of special branch and some of UCD's hired muscle. 2 branchers pushed, shoved, and threatened the crowd in a manner that would cause a moral panic back on politics ie."

Strange that the maths department is in a different building altogether. One gets the impression from the sloppy writing that many of the protesters were not even students in UCD. Interrupting free speech by bringing in hired muscle to an event is contemptible. Student radicals are thoughtful and willing to listen to dissenting or unpopular voices, without censoring or intimidating them.

Perhaps these shameful tactics explain why there is so much activity on the other board compared with here.

author by shell chun sáile corcaí - shell chun sáile corcaípublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 09:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

excellent stuff lads and lassies!

author by MacEpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 09:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Antibully, live up to your name. Here's a better target for you than noisy students:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0JKLCH9SdiE
http://youtube.com/watch?v=P8pqaOnGDNs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6DrMoBpbJiA

Related Link: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=rossport
author by Dan O' Neill - Labour Youthpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 09:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"I did see Dan O'Neills comment, which well explains why nothing more challenging to authority than a strongly worded letter has kicked off in UCD for years."

Would love to know what that's supposed to mean?

All I said was that UCD Labour do not disrupt democratic debate.....I saw no problem with blocking the Shell propeganda talk but I will not or never prevent democratic debate.....(like the senators and congressmen debate)

I agree that the account of the event on Politics.ie is completely biased......Indymedia explains what happened in the most accurate way to my knowledge....

Related Link: http://proudtobeleft.blogspot.com
author by observerpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 09:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Your "party" got 505 votes in thw whole country in the general elections. You have no mandate to do anything, least of all deny free speech to those who represent tens of thousands of voters.

author by Dan O' Neillpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 09:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Who's that aimed at? Good point!..Seriously.

author by antibullypublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

MacE - thanks for the links. The gardai are doing their jobs there and in the process destroying the goodwill they need to do their jobs properly. They must be following a mandate from our political leaders. Who has shares in Shell? Who benefits from the pipeline? Why are people upset?

In Dublin many of us are not aware of what happens in the west. When there is a chance to learn about the situation and debate these points here with the politicians who can make a change, it is hijacked. Hiring bullies who are not even students to disrupt student debates undermines the protesters in the west. It is also deplorable and an indication that if in power, these groups would attack freedom of speech and intellectuals. If this is the nature of the protesters, then I would reconsider my reaction to the garda's tactics.

Also, since these protesters were not students in UCD, why were they there? It begs the question - what about the protesters in Mayo, are they local people? These bullying tactics are wrong in this instance and counterproductive.

author by ...publication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Your "party" got 505 votes in thw whole country in the general elections. You have no mandate to do anything, least of all deny free speech to those who represent tens of thousands of voters."

So, if we are to extend this logic then at what point does one get a mandate? Getting into government? Is someones "mandate" based on being a member of a party that's in government or in the dail or just of a party? Or does the "mandate" come from the amount of votes in correlation to other votes, i.e. being a majority? Or maybe it's once one has voted for a party that got more than 5% or 10% or 15% of the vote that people are allowed or, sorry, "mandated" to "do anything"? Does one get a mandate to "do anything" when one has voted for the party in power otherwise must one put up and shut up? This is all very confusing you see, people need a mandate from the rest of the voting population of Ireland to "do anything" is that it? Or was it just the majority of the voting population? But then why would I need to do anything if the party in the majority is doing what apparently they've been mandated to do and get the chance to look for another mandate in 4 years time? What's the point in even having this "the wrong government was elected" debate since they surely have a "mandate" and thus shouldn't be questioned?

author by Caoimhe - Dublin Shell to sea pers cappublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In relation to the argument that the Minister was blocked from speaking:

There are numerous entrancs to Theatre M in the arts block of UCD. There are at 5 to 6 doors at the top of the theatre and an entrance at the bottom of the theatre, which would bring you straight onto the platform.

Eamon Ryan showed up and was chanted at by approximately 30 Shell to Sea protesters. He had intended in walking in one of the 5 or 6 doors at the top of the Theatre. He decided against this and walked away.

Now he could have just walked downstairs to the basement and walked in the entrance at the bottom of the lecture theatre. This is not at all unusual for high profile guests of debating societies. Many high profile speakers prefer to go through the bottom entrance, as it is not a public entrance into the Theatre, and many high profile figures obviously prefer to enter discreetly.

However Eamon Ryan decided not to walk downstairs and to go home instead.

To say that the people at the one of the entrances at the top blocked the Minister from speaking when there were numerous different entrances is ridiculous.

Note that the crowd of protestors did not follow the Minister, even though it was presumed that he was going to go downstairs. Shell to Sea went to make its point, which it did. If the Minister decided to cancel his appearance at the debate due to being chanted at, that was his decision, not ours.

Now that we have dealt with the dramatic little tantrums, can we get back to talking about the real issues surrounding this Shell gas project.

See you all on the 9th! Shell to Sea

author by ...publication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The gardai are doing their jobs there .... They must be following a mandate from our political leaders."

Good point, except there job is protecting the interests of shell, so it's great to see that one of the ways in undermining the abiltiy of the state (and the gardai as a wing of it but you seem to understand that from your above post, except I wouldn't say following a mandate, following orders would be more correct) to protect the interests of large corporations is the questioning by people of the state's/gardai's supposed "goodwill" and roles.

"Who has shares in Shell? Who benefits from the pipeline? Why are people upset?"

Good question, why don't you answer it?

Also, I don't see where it says these protestors weren't UCD students or also for that matter that S2S somehow want to come to or achieve power. If anything it's an example of true democracy in action, when power is at the grassroots of society, when the people in a community have a say and control over their own communites.

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/66410
author by Caobhinpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The gobshites are getting all pissy because they are pissed off by the action - great work. That they have to bubble their slime onto this website is further proof of the effectiveness of the action.

As for the gombeen who seems to think you are only allowed to protest based on how many votes you buy once every five years - try organising a demo/action in support of the likes of Shell and see how much support you get
(no outsourcing job to consultants now mind)

author by MacEpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"...when the people in a community have a say and control over their own communites..." By way of the Aarhus convention (see link), which Ireland has been a signatory to for quite a while, and more recently, in serious breach of.

Related Link: http://ec.europa.eu/environment/aarhus/
author by observerpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why don't you run for election and see how well you do? Supporters of Shell to Sea got something like 10 votes in Rossport !

And BTW I don't support Shell and beleive that they should be subject to proper taxation and royalties.

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors


What a miserable rant in defence of 'free speech'.

As one who has witnessed the State/Corporate nexus in all its ignominy in Erris for the past seven years such bluster rings very hollow.

If you want to see what happens to free speech in this country get yourself to north Mayo any day of the week, observe, experience and then post.

If you're not fit for that then organise your protest - and hand out free can of Coke to all who participate.

author by Cogsy (M-L) - Socialist Party (pc)publication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:41author email offensieftegenracisme at yahoo dot co dot ukauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Wipe the spittle from your chin Lodge2000.

Nobody attempted to stop Eamon Ryan from speaking last night. Nor did anyone physically threaten him. He struck a pathetic figure, scuttling away with voice quivering when confronted by an angry and well-organised protest. The Greens have bared themselves as Fianna Fail'ers with a penchant for organic yogurt and macrobiotic pastries. Hence the demonisation of protestors from dribbling cretins like Pidge on politics.ie who were supporters of Shell 2 Sea when the Greens were in opposition.

Its not at all surprising that members of the Greens and wannabe frat-brats from Law Soc spread lies and misinformation about the protest. But its absolutely shameful that self-styled leftists like Chris Bond and Dan O'Neill jave joined in on the baiting of Shell 2 Sea activists (including their own comrades). Its not the first time this term Chris and Dan have baited socialists in UCD: a few weeks ago Dan was scribbling on public forums that the Socialist Party were going to launch a "riot" against the visit of US senators and congressmen to campus (http://tinyurl.com/26l633). I suppose you could call them master baiters.

author by Cogsy (M-L)publication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just to clarify, there were no members of the SWP/PBPA participating in the protest. This was most likely due to the sudden notice of the event. Most protestors were non-aligned, but included comrades from the SP, ISN, LY and a very sizeable contingent from Eirigi.

And the only person who threatened anybody last night was Societies Officer Richard "Ping Pong" Butler. There's a certain lurker on indymedia who has Eamon Ryan to thank because he dissuaded Butler from punching his lights out :-)

author by Davepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

That doesn't mean that protestors need dispense with dignity and decency.

Before the usual "the guards do this, Shell do that" starts, ask yourselves if spitting and abusing makes you any better.

I don't condone the actions that led to Shell's arrival in Mayo but the behaviour of some of the protestors is despicable.

author by Willpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I've just checked politics .ie
What a bunch of precious sheep. They'll do themselves an injury having hissy fits like that.

I notice the site asks for your e.mail address in order to contribute - no doubt to pass on to the Branch
if you're the wrong colour - a bit like China - be careful.

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The accusation of spitting is nasty and should be demonstrably proven; if true then it is up to Dave to pursue it 'through the proper channels'; if false it's libellous.

Which is it - and let's not descend into 'yes s/he did, no s/he didn't'.

Quite simply, post your proof or retract your accusation.

author by Dan O Neillpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"But its absolutely shameful that self-styled leftists like Chris Bond and Dan O'Neill jave joined in on the baiting of Shell 2 Sea activists (including their own comrades). Its not the first time this term Chris and Dan have baited socialists in UCD: a few weeks ago Dan was scribbling on public forums that the Socialist Party were going to launch a "riot" against the visit of US senators and congressmen to campus (http://tinyurl.com/26l633). I suppose you could call them master baiters."

Cogsy.........That is absolute rubbish>>>>>....

1) The reason Bondlad and I left the protest is because we had to be in work at 7:30!!!!!!!!

2) YOU were trying to cause trouble at the democratic debate a few weeks ago (Not the whole socialist party by the way)......However, I never said there was going to be a riot

author by Chris Bondpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Can you please point out where we have baited socialists, i didnt spend 7 minutes arguing for socialism on front of 150 students in UCD to be labelled a Bater of Socailists. You're dismissing of other peoples tactics is not out of the best interest in the cause, its out of your own radical individualism. I participated in the Demonstration outside the senator talk, but at the same time me and my comrades weren't afraid to challenge them on the inside, leaving no holes barred in our criticism of the war in Iraq, Guantanamo bay and the various atrocities committed by US imperialism. You have no respect for other peoples opinion or tactics whatsoever as you are completely closed minded. Your politics are those of denunication, you're willing to pick rows with people who have even a minor difference

I left early cos i have to go to work, not all students are priveledged enough to go through college without having to work to support themselves.

Related Link: http://chrisabond.blogspot.com
author by Davepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It was word of mouth from someone who went up to support the protestors.

I'll detract the statement since I have no evidence that i could post but if it's untrue then no one need feel any guilt.

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Let's not get into navel fluff-picking here.

The thread is about Eamonn Ryan choosing not to attend a debate which was dismissed by FF as, presumably, beneath their arrogance to attend.

As one of the delegation who met Ryan in Leinster House I can say that any attempts to raise the S2S question in speaker's time would hardly have altered the course of a State oil/gas give-away backed up by State subversion of its own police force in north Mayo.

Still waiting for proof or retraction from Dave ...

author by Cogsy (M-L)publication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Can you please point out where we have baited socialists?"

Chris (JimLarkin), you've just edited your denunciation of the protest from politics.ie!
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=28077&postdays=0...t=144

Unbelievable! You're lacking a backbone like a certain Mr .Ryan. I was notified by text message about your comments this morning so others on this site have seen them and can confirm you did denounce our protest.

But the following comment from your auld mucker Eddiepops reveals the thrust of your post -
"Appreciated Chris. Maybe we should get together to form a "No free speech for those who try to oppose the free spech of others" counter group, in an ultimate act of irony"

Meanwhile, Comrade Dan was keen to distance himself and your organisation from the protest, stressing "UCD Labour DO NOT DISRUPT DEMOCRATIC DEBATE!!!"
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=28077&postdays=0...rt=72

And neither did we. So what is Comrade Dan insinuating?

author by Davepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 13:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I already said i had to retract it since I had no evidence that could be posted.

Though that doesn't seem to work both ways.

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 13:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Apologies Dave. It appears I was writing my next post when you posted yours. Thanks.

author by MacEpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 13:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

There's copious video evidence of people in Erris being "...bullied, threatened,intimidated...even assaulted..." Unfortunately for your argument, Guess Who, Shell to Sea campaigners, no matter their age or gender, are on the receiving rather than the giving end, and I've never seen anything in all my research of the topic that would lead me to conclude otherwise. Apart from the boycotting, it doesn't work the other way. And boycotting never drew blood. Michael Ring and Derek Reilly are two among many who have rubbished the wholly unsubstantiated claims that Shell loyalists are treated as the guards treat Shell to Sea supporters.

Related Link: http://www.gcmonitor.org/article.php?id=598
author by Apparat - ISN publication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 13:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Democracy isn't confined to the parliament. It includes the right to association, protest, and so on. And on another level, who would deny justification to violent protest by the oppressed against their violent oppressor?

Last nights protest was peaceful. Peaceful protest can include chanting/ranting/holding placards, etc.
Well, actually, it wasn't. The thugs that Ryan brought along did a fair bit of shoving, and threatened physical violence.

The former bicycle salesman had his best suit on, and his meatheads around him to do his pushing and shoving. Nobody laid a finger on them, or on Ryan. As minister for natural resources, he also has his thugs down in Rossport to do his dirty work. When it comes to defending freedom of speech, freedom of association, and so on, the politics.ie saps might take time out to consider this quick Q&A with a policeman last night:
Q:What do you think of your colleagues throwing pensioners over fences in Rossport.
A:Well, that wouldn't happen to them if they weren't there.

I expect an outcry against such anti-democratic behaviour by the late night keyboard warriors on politics.ie!

The reason he left was political. Unlike McDowell, it wouldn't do for him to be photographed while a load of student's hold S2S placards and protesting against his hypocrisy. Such imagery would only serve to damage the green party brand.

It’s funny that I haven't seen anyone here (or in my scan reading of politics.ie) condemn:
1)The basis that Corrib should be nationalised, and the gas processed at sea.
2)The violent pushing and shoving of the cops last night.
3)The extremely violent behaviour of the boys in yellow hi-vis vests in Rossport.
4)The fact that people have been locked up by the state for resisting MNOil in a peaceful manner.

Instead, elaborate realities are constructed, and our right to hold a peaceful protest is condemned . . . . . . . . . in the name of freedom of speech!

Well, we won't be gagged. All S2S activists should take heart from the response of the right, the far right, and the yoghurt eating right to last night. Lotta Continua!

Related Link: http://irishsocialist.net
author by guess whopublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 13:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I have One Question for the S2S members on this site.
Ask yourselves why is it that the local people opposed to the S2S strategy are unlikely to post their real names?

author by Becausepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 13:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

because they aren't actually local people. Just rightwing cranks like yourself maybe?

author by Maura Harrington - S2s; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 13:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Because they are moral, ethically bankrupt cowards who cannot claim the 'courage of their conviction' because they have none.

author by MacEpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 14:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Many local people opposed to Shell and the government's strategy are afraid to attend protests because of the guards, and I don't blame them. What do you find objectionable about boycotting, GW? Why shouldn't I spend my money where I like? Shell to Sea supporters don't vandalise the property of businesses that are pro-Shell. Why do Shell loyalists vandalise the signs for Healy's supermarket?

Related Link: http://corribsos.com/index.php?id=1611
author by ucd leftiepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 14:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It amazes me to watch the left in UCD tear each other apart as for another year a right wing SU and union council get away without being subjected to serious scrutiny by councillors as to their actions.

A privatised health system is being brought in, where are the protests .................. ????

Well done on last nights protests,it must be time to bring another motion to council on solidarity with the people of Rossport

author by MacEpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 14:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"...I have a family and I don't want them targeted, so I consider myself a "justified" coward.
I am not proud of been "a coward" but I have seen what happens to heroes in Erris and I don't want "that" at my door!..."

What are you talking about? Do you really think Shell to Sea supporters will treat you as they have been treated? Would you like to answer my question about the vandalism by Shell loyalists?

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com/index.php?id=1105
author by Maura Harrington - S2s; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 14:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The parishioners of the receiving/imposed upon commumities of Kilcommon Parish have spoken - over 80% of whom express opposition to the proposed Corrib Project as configured.

This is attested to by letter to Eamonn Ryan signed by the priests of said parish.

The receiving communities do not want Shell in their midst for reasons of Health and Safety and Shell's global record which is a dire threat to the continued integrity of the area. They, and their supporters are the heroes.

You remain an anonymous inconsequentiality.

author by Etain - Green Partypublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 14:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Has annoyone even considered that Eamon Ryan, might have been called away to another meeting?

Politicians have busy schedules. Its a waste of time attacking him over the indefensible.

Related Link: http://www.greenparty.ie
author by UCD Alumnipublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 14:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Firstly - Etain - your comment is so ridiculous and asinine that it barely deserves reply, but...
He was called away to another meeting - and that call came at the exact moment that he was walking towards Theatre M and realised that he was going to be challenged over his and his party'.s recalcitrant flip flopping in relation to Rossport? Sure.

Also - to all the people alleging that the protest was trying to stop Ryan from speaking..
Why then was no effort made to stop the Shell representative from speaking?
Surely if that was what we were about then it would have been the #1 priority to stop the ACTUAL Shell employee from speaking, rather than just their puppet Ryan?

Face up to it. Nobody tried to stop him from speaking. You're allowed to chant at a protest. If you think otherwise, then perhaps you might like to allege the same thing with regard to the many, many anti-apartheid, anti-war, anti-torture protests etc all over the world who have chanting and slogans as a key element as well.

I know it's hard to come to terms with the fact that Ryan just couldn't handle being in any way challenged and had to leg it like someone lit a fire under him, but for the love of Dog, please try.

author by Etain - Green Partypublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 15:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Firstly let me say, that is strikes me as highly unbelievable that someone with Eamon Ryan's political experience would do such a thing, without good reason. So I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, as so should you. It is easy to get on your high horse about these things, but there are always two sides to a story.

Whether you like it or not, I do have the right to free speech, and have spoken out many a time against many unethical policies and abuses of human rights

I am all in favour of 'protests' but within reason and when they are conducted in a peaceful and ethical manner

author by UCD Alumnipublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 15:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Please apply the last two sentences of your first paragraph to the protestors instead of Ryan (or even, as WELL as..) and try, for once, to see the wood for the trees.

author by CLpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 15:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I have asked more than once for a civilised online (indymedia chat room) debate on the corrib project, but S2S refuses to participate.
I will ask once more "" are the S2S campaign willing to participate in a "head to head" real time debate on this issue?
Maura and others from S2S are vocal with one-liners here on indymedia but when challenged to a rational live debate they turn into ostriches!
It is hardly a sign of confidence in their argument, so I say either agree to a debate where real questions are answered or give up the ghost

author by Eamonn O'coilea'in - Republic of Irelandpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 15:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I am one of the protesters who was assaulted by garda and thrownn down a drain last year on Nov 10 th. I am still in immense pain, I met Eamonn Ryan in Galway when the Green Party presented Willy Corduff with an award, when Willy and his wife Mary came back from America with the GOLDMAN award. So as I was telling Eamonn Ryan what had happened to me and how much pain and suffering due to being assaulted by the Garda in Bellinaboy, he was really listerning and taking it all in, Even when his PR people tried to lead him away he remained to listern in shock and horror! This happened before he was appointed to Minister, I'm just wondering if he would listern to me now that he has power. We all know that he was marching and protesting with us, what do you think changed his way of thinking ( people have the right to protest ). I know one thing, I'll be there protesting our right to be there saying to $h£LL GET OUT of ERRIS, see you all on the mornin of the 9th

author by Dan O Neillpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Cogsy, YOU (as in you, Cogsy the man) do (at least try to) disrupt democratic debate......(Again the congressmen incident)

In relation to shell to sea I've since heard accounts of what happend from various people and now know that nothing mad happened.....Eamon Ryan simply couldn't stand the heat!!!

All I said was that Labour Youth do not disrupt democratic debate.....

The simple fact is Eamon Ryan is the man to blame for all this because if he and the government he is a part of were willing to deal with the Shell situation there would not have been a protest in the first place...

Anyway Cogsy, I always have time to discuss my differences with you face to face......I don't need to do it online so if you want a coffee or tea (If coffee is too bourgeois) so you can abuse me you have my number....

In the meantime I suggest that you channel your energy critising Shell and the right wing government rather than attacking others on the left.....

Goodbye :)

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Last week's head2head online debate in the Irish Times gave a resounding thumbs down to the motion 'Is Shell's Corrib Gas Project good for the Local Communities?' 16% said YES; 84% said NO.

When Andy Pyle - remember him CL? - published his first 'open letter' inviting 'dialogue' on the proposed project in Summer 2002, I answered with what we consider to be an acceptable form of debate in open forum - means just that; local communities addressing a phalanx of Shell suits in Glenamoy Hall, Glenamoy Community, An Seanscoil in the presence of accredited national and international observers.

I copied my letters to Jeroen van der Veer, RDS CEO and received an acknowledgement of receipt.

Don't continue to spout guff when, if you claim to know anything, you know that Shell have consistently refused to engage in such an open forum - their preferred option is ALWAYS to get two or three behind closed doors. That is not, nor ever will be acceptable. Can you not get your head around the concept of peoples' rights in regard to proper consultation under the Aarhus Convention ...

Over 80% of Kilcommon Parish, 84% in the paper of record ... where you goin' CL??

author by Eammonn O'Coilea'in - Republic of Irelandpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

CL, why would any one want to debate you when you hide and wont even tell us here on Indy Media who you really are, you just snapp when you want to, you never told us veiwers what would happen to the RAW GAS that would escape in the 83 KMs of pipeline , you stated that it would shut down so no electricity would flash fire it , I'll tell you what would happen, it would posion us all in a five mile radius; causing CANCER so look in the mirror and debate with your self!!!

cancer
cancer

author by Colmpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"you never told us veiwers what would happen to the RAW GAS that would escape in the 83 KMs of pipeline "

So it definitely will escape then?

There's no chance that the line won't be faulty?

author by PPpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This letter - click on it to make it a readable size- indicates that thre local clergy believe the project does not have community consent.

Who are we to believe- anonymous "confused local" or the three priests who live and work in the area and are willing to put their names to a letter to the Minister?

We might also ask has Eamon Ryan written back to the priests and what his reply says in relation to community consent.

click on the letter to read it
click on the letter to read it

author by Apparatpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I agree with the poster who said that it's terrible to see the left in UCD ununited.

It's a pity that a handful of opportunists cower to their online friends on politics.ie rather than stand in unity with comrades who held a peaceful protest last night. It's a pity that a small number of LY members, including one using the moniker of Jim Larkin would put the value of a subservient & virtual personal friendship with a neo-conservative over standing in solidarity with those who engage themselves in the slow, difficult cause of social justice by peaceful means.

But thankfully, it's only a marginalised handful of opportunists who are involved in such distracting behaviour. Last night was a united show of strength & solidarity by the principled majority from left social democrats, to autonomistas, to trots, to third camp running dogs of first world imperialsim like myself.

Then raise the scarlet standard high
Beneath its folds we'll live and die
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
We'll keep the red flag flying here

author by s2s - Dublin Shell to Seapublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 16:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Photos of Eamon Ryan turning and walking away when greeted with shell to sea activists having a peaceful protest out the lecture theatre where he was due to participate in a debate.

s2s_3_1.jpg

s2s_2_1.jpg

s2s_one.jpg

author by CLpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 19:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Maura wrote "Shell have consistently refused to engage in such an open forum - their preferred option is ALWAYS to get two or three behind closed doors. That is not, nor ever will be acceptable."
I have stated before I have no connections to shell, I have never worked for ,or received one cent from Shell.
you will not find a more "open" forum than the WWW the world can listen in and decide if S2S have genuine logical concerns or are engaged in Pseudoscience .
you can collect ALL of your experts (even the three PP) if you wish, perhaps "experts" from both sides of the argument can debate the issues and who knows minds might be changed!

ED Collins writes "CL, why would any one want to debate you when you hide and wont even tell us here on Indy Media who you really are"
What difference does it make who I am, will your facts change depending who you are discussing them with?
he continues "I'll tell you what would happen, it would poison us all in a five mile radius; causing CANCER " well Ed why not engage in a debate (in a very open forum) and explain how you come to that determination, I for one am very eager to see the science behind that claim.

PP wrote "Who are we to believe- anonymous "confused local" or the three priests who live and work in the area and are willing to put their names to a letter to the Minister?"
I say neither, without proof.
I as a LOCAL am well aware of the local politics, where were those three priests who live and work in the area when requested to participate in Tommy Marrens program on Mid-West-Radio "unavailable" (living local and all three unavailable between 9&11 on a weekday morning?)
Maura has on several occasions "demanded" that a Mr. Sweetman & Ms Muller answer for their inaction on the SAC, but She (Maura) is unwilling to stand up and defend her own theories

So I once more challenge Maura, Ed,JM, and anyone who has information to share on why S2S are correct in their predictions of our future should this project progress in its intended form.

Sadly, I expect that the often "so vocal" protectors of our resources&environment, will once again decide to mimic that most "intelligent " of birds and bury their collective heads deep into a sandy dune and hope nobody notices them!

Maybe we should start a thread on Indymedia titled
"Shell-To-Sea bottles out of debate in cyberspace when challenged by a confused Erris resident"

author by Apparat - ISNpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 21:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Even the overgrown hackoids on politics.ie are beginning to realise that they were sold a moster of a lie by the poster David Cochrane. Another victory for the "blogosphere" over the "msm". At this stage, we have established:

1) The minister wasn't threatened.
2) Protesters were threatened.

And that the if you're a mini John Bowman swing-o-meter nerd on politics.ie:
1) Peaceful protest is to be condemned.
2) Cops battering pensioners and locking up activists is perfectly alright.
3) Chanting "Shell to Sea" at a minster is a violation of his freedom of speech.

Anyway, back in the real world. . . . .

author by Peaceful protestorpublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 23:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It is now clearly established that the protest against Ryan was a peaceful one. Nothing was done to him that hasn’t been done many times in UCD, when unpopular government ministers come to speak. They have been given a taste of the anger that exists on issues like fees, refugees etc. on many occasions. This time, it is Ryan who felt that anger, and seems to have been the most shocked of them all, so taken back in fact that he left, never to come back. Are we meant to feel sorry for him, that he was so shaken by the opposition that he didn’t speak? I certainly don’t.

Any idea that Ryan is “our man” inside the government is nonsense. He’s as bad as the rest of them, and is the Minister responsible for continuing the giveaway of billions of euros worth of gas to multinational companies as well as overseeing the continuing construction of an unsafe onshore refinery and pipeline in North Mayo. He deserves the same treatment as the rest of them – yes he should be allowed to speak, but he shouldn’t get an easy ride either. It’s good that he feels under pressure. If he feels he can’t bear listening to that peaceful opposition and goes home, well - tough!

Also, the idea has somehow developed that in protesting against Ryan, we were opposing democracy. The irony of that is huge. We’re the ones reminding Ryan and the Green Party about what they said pre-election. He’s the one who has sold out the people who voted for him. And yet we’re the ones who are a threat to democracy???

Finally, Chris Bond’s posting on politics.ie, which he has now edited, but I had the unfortunate pleasure of seeing, was a disgrace. It should be an embarrassment to any member of Labour Youth. Instead of asking his own comrades or others who were at the protest about what happened, it is clear that he took the word of a bunch of political nerds on that bastion that is class struggle, politics.ie. He then pandered to that audience (you don’t see him on indymedia saying it), flailing against straw men who don’t exist, defending the right of people to speak against those who apparently don’t let people speak. He claimed to be at the reasonable protest that was at Shell, but not at the unreasonable protest that was against Ryan. He effectively condemned those at the protest against Ryan, and reassured the good folk at politics.ie, that don’t worry, Labour Youth definitely wasn’t involved in any of that bad protest stuff. In doing so, he buys into and perpetuates the good protestor / bad protestors nonsense that the media and others constantly use to try to divide and rule.

The decision to move the protest from the Student Centre to where Ryan was a decision taken by discussion and agreement of the protestors there. It was clear at that stage that what would happen was a protest against Ryan, which would involve … chanting and shouting against a Minister – what would you expect??

At the Shell to Sea meeting that took place afterwards in UCD, the day’s activities were discussed. Everybody there, which included members of Eirigi, LY, SP and others agreed that the protest had been a success, above all the protest against Eamon Ryan. Not one person raised any problem with the nature of the protest.

To repeat - Bond’s comment on politics.ie was a disgrace – I tried to locate it in Google cache, but it doesn’t seem to be there. Next time he should get his facts straight before he condemns peaceful protestors. Instead of deleting his comment, he should openly retract it, if he no longer stands over it.

author by ucd leftiepublication date Wed Oct 31, 2007 23:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

let the left of UCD unite again and work together , we need people like cogsy and others like him on the front line representing students

I hope we see a left wing slate run next year but i doubt it, too many leftists in UCD seem nice and cosy with wishy washy consensus . Stand up guys make this right wing union accountable, how many KBCers such as Brennan, Shanahan, Rath, KIng, O'Connor etc can away with it, all talk no action

SP, LY, PBP all need to work together NOW................................We can do it, Believe

remember the CFE, Weafter, Kelly et al It can be done

author by Apparat - ISNpublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 00:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thanks for the motivational prep there UCD leftie. It's like having our very own Mr Motivator: http://tinyurl.com/2j8tuh - I expect to see you "In da house" at the next protest in UCD.

Change the tempo!

There's no need to get excited about it all. I sincerely hope that many more ministers are held to account over issues like Shannon, Tara, Shell, Social Justice, Immigration, and so on. It's funny that most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at the pedophile on the front of todays paper being called a "beast", while a cabinet minister who OK's the routing of WMD's to be dropped on Iraq (650,000+ killed) through Ireland is considered a perfectly respectable human being. Indeed, Ryan got a sickening puff piece from a liberal hack in the Irish Times just the other day http://tinyurl.com/yw7clx .

-The Green Party do not stand for lowering consumption to save the planet.

-The Green Party think if we all consume a different kind of product, the contradictory worlds of anthropocentric greed & our natural environment can somehow coalesce.

-The Green Party is not a party of the environment. It is a pro business party. It lives by the rules of the market. The market demands economic growth, and this entails more consumption. Consumption unlike anything seen since nomads formed the first cities in ancient Mesopotamia. Cities that are now being leveled with the help of the pro-Shannon, pro-market Greens.

-The Greens are now a vital part of a political superstructure that is adapting to the sub-structural economic forces which are themselves reacting to changing resource need. They are the big, soft, wet buffer that has been allowed grow in a narrow and constrained manner by the forces of capital, and is now being thrown out to soak up any economic damage caused by those alarmed by global warming/resource grabs/poor development/etc. Easier to have John Gormely as minister responsible for Tara, and Ryan responsible for Rossport, than some punch and judy FF backbencher provoking general anger. Easier to have a branded "green" put forward the arguments for Nuclear/Incineration/Lax standards on Business and Developers, than some Mahon tribunal defendant gobshite.

In short, the Greens are a lot more harmful to the state of this planet, and the majority of those who live on it, than they are good for us and our natural/built world. They are a distraction.

Socialism or Barbarism. That is our choice. The left in UCD (bar a few flip-floping headbangers) were united last night in UCD.

But we don't translate practical action into getting strangled by Union campaigns, or pushing a few careerists toward sabbatical positions. Last night underscored two vital points:
1) United on practical campaigns, we can make our mark & get things done.
2) There are a couple of careerist opportunists in our midst.

So lets keep on going. Just like we were.

Not running for a sabbat position: Our Trot skinhead hard.
Not running for a sabbat position: Our Trot skinhead hard.

Related Link: http://irishsocialist.net
author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 00:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Not so dear confused local,

You have been playing the bewildered card for so long now that, considering the amount of time you spend sending out plaintive posts affirming and re-affirming your confused state - time which you could have used more productively informing yourself, as all of us had to do - I think it's entry to a home for the bewildered you should be seeking.

If you ever manage to display signs of rationality coupled with average cognitive ability you might pose an intelligent question or two ...

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 01:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors


'As a local well aware of local politics', and with Erris residency claims (that is if your confusion doesn't surface) will you inform this www whether

(a) you know Mr. Sweetman and Ms. Muller

(b) whether, knowing them or not, you have an opinion on them rather than on myself for a change

That depends, of course, on whether you're in a fit state to offer an opinion on anything ...

author by krossie - wsm personal capacitypublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

First and foremost well done to everyone involved – the size of the protest and the highly confused range of plain lies, fantasy,exaggeration and cant from the political right on this thread is testament enough to the issue that the shell to sea cause is alive and kickin’!

Caoibhin
by observer Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:02
Why don't you run for election and see how well you do? Supporters of Shell to Sea got something like 10 votes in Rossport !



OK Caoibhin I note you're not a Shell supporter
– I think the protests and actions in Dublin and Rosport do have a clear mandate from “the plain folks of Ireland” – certainly those that read the Irish Times who gave Shells refinery proposal a whopping 16% support in the recent head to head poll!!

http://scripts.ireland.com/polls/head2head/index.cfm?fu...d=352

A disgrace
by lodge2000


To be honest to even compare the actions of a multi billion dollar corporation, a compromised government and 300 guards with a a small vocal protest as being on the same level shows either a an almost insanely warped sense of “fairplay” or an over indulgence in mind altering substances?

UCD leftie meantime it amazes me to watch the left in UCD tear each other apart as for another year…

Seems to me that we’ve just had a fantastic demonstration that the left in UCD has arisen – phoenix like! in a united and successful demonstration

krossie

Related Link: http://www.shelltosea.com
author by Chris McCabepublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This would be the appropriate time to ask Eamonn Ryan for an explanation pf his actions/inactions.
Shell are unable to get Local Consent despite imprisonment, Garda harrassment & violence, offers of 'sponsorship' & promises of jobs. Too many people are aware of Shell's disgraceful history of pollution & disregard for human rights, and the Mayo environment is too precious (including its human fauna!) to trade for promises.

author by W. Finnerty.publication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I've just read the priest's letter (at Wed Oct 31, 2007 17:35 above), and it seems really good to me. I think the local people are VERY lucky to have three such priests.

In my own case, and as something of an aside for comparison purposes, I have a certain Fr Pat Kenny (Parish Priest of "New Inn & Bullaun", Co Galway) who is entirely happy, apparently, to have raw sewage from the New Inn primary school he is "Manager" of enter the river (going through the centre of the village) a hundred yards or so upstream from the pump-house for the local community water supply: all of which is completely unlawful on several counts (according to legal advice I have received).

The only thing that's badly missing from the above mentioned priests' letter (as far as I'm concerned, and I realise it's possibly because they don't know about it) is the matter of the Aarhus Convention Agreement (see http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Aarhus+Convention+...earch ) which the Republic of Ireland signed up for in 1998: and which they (i.e our "public servants") have been very carefully HIDING, and UNDERMINING with impunity, ever since - in a manner which very clearly violates Article 29.5.1 of Bunreacht na hEireann (Constitution of the Republic of Ireland) in the most outrageous of ways.

When, if ever, does our Government plan to start behaving lawfully and responsibly regarding our Constitution, and the genuinely democratic United Nations Aarhus Convention Agreement (which provides for the core issue of "LOCAL CONCENT")? And, by "Government" I mean all three of the MAIN organs of Government: Legislative (Oireachtas), Executive (government), and Judicial (Courts of Law).

"The Constitution of Ireland, according to O'Dalaigh CJ. in In re Haughey (1971), is founded on the doctrine of the tripartite division of powers of government - legislative (Oireachtas), executive (Government) and judicial (Courts)."

These matters have been raised on SEVERAL occasions already with our senior "public servants" (so called), as can be seen via the very PUBLIC links contained at the following INTERNET address: http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.co...Daily

So, "they" can't any longer use the "nobody told us" argument.

Related Link: http://www.constitutionofireland.com
author by CLpublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 13:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Maura wrote "Afore ye go CL"
I have no intention of going anywhere! I was hoping for a debate in "an open forum" but unsurprisingly S2S have hid again.
I do know of Mr. Sweetman and Ms. Muller I have never spoken with them or have any connection to them.
My view Mr. Sweetman is that he is a professional objector (as seen at Knock and elsewhere) not a very honorable profession in my opinion, but the objectors of the corrib project had nothing but praise for him when it suited them.(APB hearings for example).
finally Maura's suggestion "amount of time you spend sending out plaintive posts affirming and re-affirming your confused state - time which you could have used more productively informing yourself,"
I think Maura assumes that my pseudonym suggests I am confused on all subjects, but my confusion relates mostly to the S2S logic/predictions in relation to the corrib project.

Sadly the patrons of indymedia are not going to have the chance to witness a logical debate, in real time, where we could have informed,clarified,and even convinced interested people on the possible implications of this project into the future.

In conclusion, in an earlier post in this thread I admitted that I am a coward, but now I know (beyond doubt) I am not alone.

author by UCD Leftiepublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 13:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If the left has risen again, I look forward to seeing some robust debate at Union Council in the future.

I'm sure some right wing hack will raise this protest on Monday night at some stage and hopefully the lies that have been spread will be stopped and people will know the truth.

author by Eamonn O'Coilea'in - Republic of Irelandpublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 13:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

CL, Why don't you meet up at the Bellinaboy refinery on the 9 th of November 2007 at 7 or 8 am if your a confused local, We could then have a cup of coffee and you could see first hand what the dangers are, and maybe if your mannerism is OK, I'm sure the good people at the trailer will talk to you, see you there if your not to confused, Just follow the yellow brick road lined by the Irish garda to the gates of s/hell. It's up to you CL you want hard evidence, show up and look for yourself..

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 14:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Mr. Sweetman was paid for his services to a group of people, including myself, to put before An Bord Pleanála the information collated by said local people. The first part of the Oral Hearing took place in Feb/Mar 2002 and it was at this part of the then proceedings that Mr. Sweetman acted in a paid capacity.

Mr. Sweetman's services were dispensed with by the group (with the exception of Ms. Muller) between the first Oral Hearing and the second which occurred in Nov/Dec of that year. This time the local people stated their own case to the hearing - in an obviously coherent and effective manner since ABP upheld the appeal in Apr. 2003.

The current 'permission' for Ballinaboy was arrived at following what we call the 'Nuremburg Rally' in Belmullet Sports Complex, Jul '03; the meeting of Shell executives with Bertie Ahern on Sept. 19th '03 (a day and night which will be long remembered in the parish - devasting series of landslides) following which a meeting with ABP was arranged for Shell and, finally a second decision arrived at by ABP - without allowing an Oral Hearing.

author by Contrarianpublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 17:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Cogsy (M-L) - Socialist Party (pc) wrote:
"Nobody attempted to stop Eamon Ryan from speaking last night. Nor did anyone physically threaten him. He struck a pathetic figure, scuttling away with voice quivering when confronted by an angry and well-organised protest. The Greens have bared themselves as Fianna Fail'ers with a penchant for organic yogurt and macrobiotic pastries. Hence the demonisation of protestors from dribbling cretins like Pidge on politics.ie who were supporters of Shell 2 Sea when the Greens were in opposition."

Pidge was hardly a suporter of S2S. He was a former, self-confessed, PD supporter prior to joining the Greens.

http://tinyurl.com/2zbm4g

author by CLpublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 21:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ed wrote..........
"CL, Why don't you meet up at the Bellanaboy refinery on the 9 th of November 2007 at 7 or 8 am if your a confused local, We could then have a cup of coffee and you could see first hand what the dangers are and maybe if your mannerism is OK, I'm sure the good people at the trailer will talk to you, --It's up to you CL you want hard evidence, show up and look for yourself"
A case of "Will you walk into my parlor?" said the Spider to the Fly," http://www.earthlife.net/chelicerata/spid-fly.html I stated before "I am confused not stupid".
what could I possible see on the 9th Nov that will display to me or anyone else the "dangers of the refinery during its operation"?
If S2S wants to highlight the "dangers" then the opportunity I suggested is there ultimate forum, we could even contact $hell and ask them to have some of their experts participate in the debate.
The experts from the S2S side of the debate would have the perfect opportunity to show everyone how flawed $hells scientists are.
who knows, I suspect I could convince credible independent scientists to participate in the debate, it would raise indymedia's profile as a forum of rational, logical, intelligent argument on issues of public interest!
Now Maura,"Mr. Sweetman was paid for his services to a group of people, including myself, to put before An Bord Pleanála the information collated by said local people." is that not what I stated in my last post, Mr. Sweetman is(in my opinion) a professional objector, Maura and others thought it worthwhile to pay him for for his services.
I participated in that oral hearing and observed Mr. Sweetman make his contributions, my perception of him was that he was a little eccentric(no offence) sometimes amusing but obviously well versed on the legalities of the planning process.
If "someone" was to hire the services of Mr. Sweetman to initiate proceedings to have the camp removed from a SAC, what difference is that to Maura and others hiring him to fight their case?
"What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!"
she continues "meeting with ABP was arranged for Shell and, finally a second decision arrived at by ABP - without allowing an Oral Hearing.".
If such a scenario did actually occur, was it legal, constitutional? if yes, then fait accompli, if no then challenge it through the courts!

author by Pidgepublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 22:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This stuff really is hilarious. Look at the photos, you'll notice that the middle one doesn't show Eamonn Ryan. Where's the photo of Eamonn Ryan walking to the theatre? Where's the photo with him being surrounded? This really is bizarre stuff.

author by Pidgepublication date Thu Nov 01, 2007 22:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I just noticed a claim that I'm hardly a supporter of S2S, since I was at some point in the past a supporter of the PDs.

I've been in the Greens since December of last year, and I've been to one S2S protest. If memory serves, it was in February or March of this year. (Anyone remember the exact date - it was at the GPO.) To claim that I'm some sort of right-wing nut who's deluded into mysteriously seeing formations of protestors is nonsense. As I've said, several people who saw the incident have confirmed the story. Just check the Politics.ie thread - one of them hates the Greens more than he hates S2S (guess for yourselves :P).

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 00:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A few points It:

You miss, or choose to miss, the pertinent point in my post referring to Mr. Sweetman which is this - his services were DISPENSED with in mid 2002.

In your zeal to fly another red herring - a worldwide debate (mo léan!) - you let slip the following:
(i) you 'participated in that oral hearing' - first one only? what happened to you for second one?? And you're still confused ...
(ii) you suspect you 'could convince credible independent scientists to participate in the debate' - if you have access to such why don't you just put together a paper to present to the receiving community (by definition, Parish of Kilcommon) to show them the error of their ways in the light of 'expert' testimony???
(iii) are you intimating that Mr. Sweetman's services were hired by 'someone' to initiate proceedings against RSC?

The terms of referrence for open 'real' dialogue involving 'real' people in a 'real' place - Kilcommon Parish - are set as outlined in previous post and by right under Aarhus Convention.

author by Pidgepublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 03:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Pidge - what do you think a twit in a suit grows up to be??"

I don't quite follow...

author by CLpublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Maura asks in another thread (Bhfuil gaeilge ag CL meas sibh ...) http://www.indymedia.ie/article/84886&comment_limit=0&c...11178
Well I will have to ask a similar question on this thread (does Maura have English?)

(i) you 'participated in that oral hearing' - first one only? = nowhere did I imply I participated in the first one only, it was Maura that alluded to the fact Mr. Sweetman represented them at that hearing.
(ii) you suspect you 'could convince credible independent scientists to participate in the debate' - if you have access to such why don't you just put together a paper to present to the receiving community (by definition, Parish of Kilcommon) to show them the error of their ways in the light of 'expert' testimony???
I would prefer to do more than put together a paper to present to the receiving community, we all know any paper which are drawn up would have its content skewed and misrepresented by vested interests.
If we could convince credible experts to debate online,then any criticism of their claims could be debated in real time and conclusions reached, I presume that it may be a lot easier to have Busy Scientists participate online, than have them travel to west mayo (maybe S2S would supply the funding and bring them here?).

(iii) are you intimating that Mr. Sweetman's services were hired by 'someone' to initiate proceedings against RSC?

I wouldn't dare intimate such a thing , I used that scenario as an example of what "could" have occurred, (did she not notice the word "if").
I would expect a primary school "student" to understand the English I have used in my posting, it should pose no problem for an intellectual

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors


'I participated in that oral hearing' (CL Nov 01 '07 22:01)

Well, did you or didn't you?

author by CLpublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 15:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:05"
"nowhere did I imply I participated in the first one "only"
I repeat "nowhere did I imply I participated in the first one "only"

I don't know what Maura's problem is with the English language, but for her benefit I will try and use very plain words.

I participated in "that" oral hearing and observed Mr. Sweetman make his contributions, Is that not clear enough?
Trying to tempt me to disclose whether I participated in other instances, so you can narrow the possibilities of who I am, isn't going to work, spider.

author by jdpublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 15:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Maura,
CL has a long, some would say disturbing, history of 'contributions' to the Shell to Sea debate born of some early dealings with the campaign. I believe he was a supporter until things didn't go his way, but then they never were going to. That's his excuse.
His comments are invariably negative, unreasonable and usually illogical. His only modus operandi is to pick holes (real or imagined) in any posting. His contributions are never positive or constructive.
He is to blogging what Brendan Kilkenny is to song contests.
Like removing chewing gum from your shoe, you will end up very frustrated and slightly mad if you try to reason with the unreasonable. CL comes with a large health warning.

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 15:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Thanks, jd!

author by Chris Bondpublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 17:53author email chrbond at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi Everyone, there is a perception out there that i made negative comments regarding the shell to sea campaign. I reject outright any remarks that i attacked shell to sea. I wholeheartedly support their cause and always will.

The orginal comment i made was was based on the information given to me by a friend. I must admit the account of the event which i recieved was distorted and distant from the truth, it was in that context i made the comment. I have come to understand that it was the wrong interpretation of the event, so i therefore withdrew the remark, and in hindsight i admit to wrongdoing. I believe that i have been taken out of context

I have supported the Shell to Sea Campaign from the outset and have attended their demonstrations and meetings in the past and will do so in the future. in the future... What i said was not directed at the the campaign in anyway. I was told that certain activists, physically blocked Eamon Ryan from speaking, that is why i made those comments,. I have little time for the politics of Eamon Ryan, but i see no problem in allowing people to speak, as long as they do not hold racist, bigoted or fascist views. However Since it is not true that certain indivdiuals used physical force to deliberatley prevent Ryan from Speaking, i retract my comments.

I hope this sheds a bit of light on the situation

Related Link: http://chrisabond.blogspot.com
author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 18:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Thanks for that!

(By the way, don't know if you're aware of the identity of 'Pidge' - I'm not; if you are, please ask him to answer the question I put to him on Indy - 'what do twits in suits grow up to be?'. I won't loose any sleep over it but might be amusing to hear it).

Beir bua, Maura

author by Cogsy (M-L)publication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 19:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It takes a big man to admit he was wrong, to learn the lesson and move. Good on ya Chris.

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Fri Nov 02, 2007 20:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors



Irish Times head2head debate 'Is Shell's Corrib Gas Project good for the Local Communities?' YES 16% NO

http://scripts.ireland.com/polls/head2head/index.cfm?fu...d=352

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Sat Nov 03, 2007 16:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Oh dear ... YES 16% NO 84%

author by ucd leftiepublication date Tue Nov 06, 2007 00:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

very sorry evening at Union council in UCD tonight as a very regressive motion was passed forcing the union to send out a press release against last tuesdays action, disgracefull stuff

author by ...publication date Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why does there need to be a press release sent out about a non event at a small action in UCD that received fuck all attention anywhere except politics.ie and indymedia? Storm in a teacup. My god, the self importance of some debating society members and union hacks. *sigh*

author by class reppublication date Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Indeed a very pointless debate last night, its over folks move on. Dan O'Neill managed to get an ammendment to stop letters being issued to the National Press...........like they really care about poxy UCD. Still though it was a pointed political attack by right wing hacks as it was lead by Stephen Fitzpatrick of YPD's and Ryan Griffin of the KBC ( and now Equality Officer of USI......makes you proud doesn't it !!!) on the left in UCD.

It was a close vote 23 to 25 in favour of the motion, which shows that Union Council did not buy all the lies told on politics.ie or on here.

Where was Cogsy last night to defend the $hell to Sea protest against Minister Ryan ???????

author by the new rightpublication date Tue Nov 06, 2007 14:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I can hear your pain UCD leftie but face it the left is dead in UCD, ha ha. I would love to see a left wing slate run and get hammered by the decent students of UCD. We had enough of the left the last time they ruined the Union.

indeed last nights motion was funny, i was hoping that Cogavin would have showed up and made a show of himself and the SP.

LONG LIVE FREE SPEECH

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