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Sunday July 22, 2007 12:51
by Seán Ryan
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These monuments should be protected because they are very important to the history of that area and for history generally. Tara gives us an insight into the way in which the Celts and others ruled and lived. I fully support this protest and it was unfortunate that I could not make it to Dublin yesterday.
What's up with the County flags?! The people that built Tara had no Counties! It was the English administration from 1600s on that formed the counties. Furthermore, the people that built the various national monuments in Tara had no concept of being "Irish". This concept of being "Irish" is very young - from 1600s on. You won't find any link to "Irishness" etc at Tara. You are getting your historical epochs all wrong if you think that.
why do such numb heads react this way?. damnd english language...
oh! im so sorry mr, they wernt irish, wot was meant was they were celts as we 'irish' are all celts(mostly), O.K. then,, celts not irish does that make your we brain feel its all ok now. dah...LONG LIVE TARA. solidarity and never mind the trolls.
... I have been at in a while. Quite a hosting!
I take the point made above about the County flags but I assumed that they were to represent the people of today who care about the past. It was a good idea to bring them, whoever thought of it, as it gave the protest the feel of an All Ireland event.
Thankfully they didn't
Right so let's go!
Forming up, ready to go
And they're off...
One of our boys in blue
and I have no cropping or photoshop tools where I am. So sorry about that but at least I now know that the time on my camera is an hour slow.
Alas poor Yorkie, I knew him well
Marching in the Woad
Leaving Parnell Square
Marching to the beat of a different drum
Me too!
Ireland was more than likely never "invaded" by Celts or populated in a large scale by Celts. The historical myth that this Island was invaded or settled by celtic peoples is highly questioned. There is no archaeological eveidence of invasion around the time the celts dominated parts of Northern Europe. The evidence of this would be visible through a quick change in the material culture of the island to types associated with the celts. The evidence points to a slow evolutionary change where people alternate at times between the cultures. There is also no evidence of a sharp rise in social upheavel indicating an invasion either. We most likely are not "celtic people" what is certain is that the people who inhabited this island had at one time adopted aspects of what is known as Celtic Culture. This in no way argues against the validity of the case to preserve Tara.
.
Nearly there
Speech on the steps
Love Tara
Free the Four
Tara Abu
.
Artists for Tara
Bertie puts in an appearance
Don't ask, don't tell
Celtic Tiger and friends
It aint over till the last flag is waved
Fair enough if the flags were there to represent the people of today that were present at that protest as the Counties do belong to the modern age.... as does the Irish tricolour that was invented in 1848 and only shot into public knowledge less than 100 years ago in 1916.
The point was made that we are "all Celts". Wrong. The Celts entered Ireland about 2000 years ago and imposed a system of government, a method of warfare and a language on the pre-Iron Age peoples that lived in Ireland. They actually came in small numbers and didn't have a massive impact on the "genetics" of the population of Ireland. Today's population of "Irish" people are in fact largely descended from the pre-Celtic peoples with a good mix of Celts, Normans, English, Scots etc thrown in for good measure. We're not a "Celtic Race" or a "Celtic People". To say we're a "Celtic Nation" is a contradiction in terms as the Celts did not have nation states! The fact there are about 10% of today's population that are recent immigrants should also not be forgotten when you digress into misty-eyed nationalism about "Celtic Nations".
Tara should be saved because it is historically significant when we want to study about human civilisation in the Iron Age period. I fully support this campaign. Just ease off on the pseudo-nationalism.
Just viewed some Tara footage of building workers saying that protesters were breaching health and safety of site. I am aware that TD Synodd has been told by the EU commision that work on the site is illegal. Would like to know more about legal status. Surely UCATT-the builders union should be informed and an injunction put to stop the illegal building of this road. It is those workers who should be imformed of the law and not their interpretation of kangaroo law.
Aventis: This concept of being "Irish" is very young - from 1600s on. You won't find any link to "Irishness" etc at Tara. You are getting your historical epochs all wrong if you think that.
There's a written record as far back as the early 11th century, where in the Book of Armagh Brian Boru is referenced as Imperator Scotorum, "Emperor of the Irish". Regardless of questions of nationalism and what it means to be Irish, there are old references to the national identity of the people of Ireland that don't sit easily with the mechanistic concept that nations are a bourgeois invention.
Aventis: To say we're a "Celtic Nation" is a contradiction in terms as the Celts did not have nation states! The fact there are about 10% of today's population that are recent immigrants should also not be forgotten when you digress into misty-eyed nationalism about "Celtic Nations"
"Celtic Nations" refer to ones in which a Celtic language is (or was) spoken, i.e. Scotland, Brittany, Wales, Ireland, Cornwall and the Isle of Man. There is no such thing as a Celtic Race, what binds Celtic people together is entirely lingual and cultural. That's pretty much universally accepted and no Celtic scholar worth their salt would argue that a Celtic race exists.
Sorry I couldn't be there. Was at the picket in Rossport. Fair play to all involved, great to see a large turnout for the demo. Was a pitty the two days clashed, considering the campaigns have so many links and could be supported by each other in numbers etc. Hope to get up there soon and show my solidarity with all involved. Best of luck
Images
Try Again
Save Tara
The High King of Tara>
Shame on You
Ciarán refers to an 11th cenutry quote about Brian Boru being considered King of the Irish. That is not proof of an Irish National identity that early. It is a reference to Boru having the alliegence of people all around the island. He would have been the main player politically at the time in the island of Ireland and people in Ireland would have had a notional alliegence to him. That does not make the peasant in the field think of himself as an Irishman. When I refer to a "nation" I refer to an imagined community that the bulk of people feel they belong to. In feudalism the vast majority of the people had no national consciousness. They were generally local in outlook and did not have the communications that developed under capitalism to make national consciousness possible. The earliest you can say there was an Irish nation was from in and around the 16th century when plantations occurred. Anyway, we can argue the ins and outs of it but even your quote comes from the 11th century which was over 1000 years after the Celts!
I take Ciarán's point about Celtic languages. The language of a people can greatly influence the development of national consciousness. The common linguistic past of the people living in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany, Mann, etc. is a reality. My first remarks did not give the Celts credit due to them on the influence they've left. The Celts did greatly influence government, language etc of Ireland right up to the plantations. Indeed Celtic languages are still spoken on an everyday basis in Ireland, Wales and Scotland.
A Demo is being organised outside Navan Courthouse at Nine O' Clock this coming Wednesday. All support is welcome. FREE THE TARA FOUR!
See at http://www.handofhistory.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=1 for information on history of Celts in Ireland and other parts of Europe.
Any demonstration, other than a dignified one, would not be welcomed and must be discouraged.
You might thing you are doing good by those arrested. In fact you will only make their situation worse.
Any ranting and raving outside the Court will only result in more severe sentences for the defendants.
These are your friends. They are not "Martyrs to the cause". They are more useful to the "Cause" on the "outside" then in Jail.
Actually there are seven!
There is little point in being there at 9am as the case is listed for Wednesday but its scheduled to be heard at approx. 3pm - depends on other cases.
If you are going to be pedantic then understand that the term Celtic to describe the Irish, Scots, Welsh and associated cultures was introduced in the 1700's by a welsh man.
This is from the Save Tara yahoo list -
The next court appearance of the 7 arrested will be in Navan court
house, the square, across the road from the shopping centre, on
Wednesday 25th July at 10.30am.
If people wish to stand with those appearing, it will be a peaceful,
completely silent protest and if you wish dress in black. This is
intended as a dignified show of solidarity.
If people wish to be in court, no interruption, no noise, no banners, no
aggrevation of any kind. Please. No shouting Save Tara in the courtroom
or anything like that - this is the best way to support those who
appear. The Campaign to Save Tara will stage a silent and peaceful
presence. Go raibh maith agaibh.
There are seven people facing criminal charges.
4+3=7
3 on bail.
4 in jail.
all face charges on Wednesday. there are multiple references in this thread to the Tara four...
http://www.savetara.com
This letter begs that a very simple question be asked of Mr. Gormley. That question is: Whose interests did Mr. Gormley represent by not making this file public; Fianna Fáil, who allowed him into government or those who elected him and gave him their mandate to represent them?
Does Mr. Gormley love Tara?
Emergency Call !
3 Conservationists are at Barrenstown where machines have moved in heading for Rath Lugh.
Anyone in the area is asked to give their immediate support.
Thank You
The first reports are coming in that heavy earth-removal machinery is moving towards the rear of Rath Lugh from the Baronstown site entrance. People encamped on Rath Lugh should be able to hold them off for a short while till re-enforcement arrives. Henge and souterrain at Lismullin is all we have left to mount a new high court challenge on. The time has now come for the people still encamped in / near the tipi on the Hill of Tara to break camp, move down to Rath Lugh and set up an additional defensive camp between Soldiers Hill and Lismullin on the other side of the Gabhra river.. Defensive action simply is no longer sustainable if people have to travel to and from the Hill of Tara all the time.
I attended the march on Saturday and enjoyed the colourful procession as it made its way to the custom house. However I have to say that I found the manners of one demonstrator rather irritating.
As I snapped a shot of the march as it wound its way towards the custom house, a parinoid idiot wrongly assumed though I was trying to get a photo of him.
(maybe he thought I was an undercover cop )
When this plonker spotted me with my camra, he threw his hands up to cover his face, then as he passed he stoopped down and pulled his hoody over his stupid grinning face.
Is this man a fugitive from the law ?
Is he just camra shy ?
He behaved like someone who had somthing to hide. His actions do not do the save Tara campaign any good.
This type of behaviour puts people off getting invovled, its adds a kind of criminality to the protest.
Maybe the next time we have a march, this sensitive clown could stay in the trees and hold the forth,
Anyone marching to save Tara, should hold their head high with pride, not skulk behind a hoody.
Hey bozo, Wiseup and ditch the hoody
Not that this campaign has time for internal bickering amongst the common support for saving Tara, but the person who posted the paragraph about the " parinoid idiot " (its spelt PARANOID man) really shouldn’t have wasted his time.
While he is sitting there, slagging off a complete stranger whom he never even engaged in conversation with, the man he is talking about is actually down at tara at this very moment throwing himself on front of machines - fighting for the same cause we all believe in. If someone doesn’t want there photo taken man then that’s their choice... "plonker", "fugitive", "clown"?? ... what the fuck man? Ease up and vent all your anger and frustration towards the enemy.. not one of our OWN warriors.
Thanks
Shane