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National Monument Discovered at Lismullen

category national | environment | news report author Tuesday May 01, 2007 18:15author by Michael Canney - Campaign to Save Tara Report this post to the editors

Monument is directly in the middle of the Tara/Skreen Valley

The Campaign to Save Tara is jubilant at today’s announcement that construction is to be stopped on the proposed route of the M3 through the Tara/Skreen Valley. Under the National Monuments Act the archaeologists contracted by the NRA were forced to declare a likely National Monument has been discovered. It had been the Save Tara Campaign that first alerted the National Museum to the potential significance of the Liamullen site, which is within 100mts of the Rath Lugh monument, and directly within the path of the proposed motorway. It is known that the Museum immediately contacted the NRA seeking information on the find. The Lismullen site had not been accurately identified during the initial archaeological survey of the route and the discovery of a henge almost 80mts in diameter and comprising of three concentric circles caused surprise to the archaeological contractor and near- apoplexy at the National Roads Authority.
The henge is shown covered in plastic - this was one they couldn't cover up
The henge is shown covered in plastic - this was one they couldn't cover up

...

author by cheebapublication date Tue May 01, 2007 18:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Many had given up but over the last few weeks and months it great that the campaign got organised and started putting the message out there. Many fell aside over time but ye stuck with it. You will be vindicated.

author by Commuterpublication date Tue May 01, 2007 22:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Doesn't look like much to me. A scutty little fairy fort more like.
I say map it. Take a few pics to keep the anorak geeks happy.
Tar it over and get the job finished.
We need the road to get to work on time.

author by The Insiderpublication date Tue May 01, 2007 23:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You don't look like much to me. A scutty little gobshite blocking up the roads more like.

I say tar over you. You're in my way.

author by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain - Campaign to Save Tara publication date Wed May 02, 2007 00:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The information below should reply to the above comments.

Press Release from Campaign to Save Tara

The Campaign to Save Tara is very pleased at today’s announcement that construction is to be stopped on the proposed route of the M3 through the Tara/Skreen Valley. Under the National Monuments Act the archaeologists contracted by the NRA were forced to declare a likely National Monument has been discovered. It had been the Save Tara Campaign that first alerted the National Museum to the potential significance of the Liamullen site, a wood henge which is within 100mts of the Rath Lugh monument, and directly within the path of the proposed motorway. It is known that the Museum immediately contacted the NRA seeking information on the find. Henges are generally used for ceremonial activity and this directly links the Valley with the top of the Hill of Tara where a similar henge was found by the Discovery Programme archaeologists Conor Newman and Joe Fenwick.
This Government does not exactly have a stellar record in dealing with heritage or archaeology and the amended National Monument Act of 2004 gives the Minister permission to destroy this precious area. The Campaign would ask again that any construction by held off until the election is over and a new Government may be put in place.
The Lismullen site had not been accurately identified during the initial archaeological survey of the route and the discovery of a henge almost 80mts in diameter and comprising of two concentric circles caused surprise to the archaeological contractors and near-apoplexy at the National Roads Authority. It would appear that there are underground passages associated with the henge.
Michael Canney from the campaign said: ‘Everybody knew that this route was destined to destroy the landscape of Tara if it went ahead. The advice of national and international experts was ignored. This route was chosen because it was favored by local politicians and businessmen. That this monument has been discovered is more by accident than by design and many other sites that were of significance have been hastily and inadequately surveyed. We now can on the Government and the NRA to abandon this route – admit they have made a serious mistake and act properly and positively to protect our heritage.’
Mr. Canney continued: ‘Minister Cullen and the NRA must now admit that this road is wholly inappropriate for the landscape of Tara and initiate a review of the whole project. The people of Meath deserve to have a decent rail transport system and the line to Navan should be re-opened immediately. This road would have done nothing to create local jobs, and in fact would have exacerbated the multitude of problems faced by the people of Meath regarding planning and transport.’
Muireann Ní Bhrolcháin
Campaign to Save Tara
087-9249510

Related Link: http://www.savetara.com
author by Michaelpublication date Wed May 02, 2007 02:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Work halts at ancient site on M3 route in Meath
Elaine Keogh

Irish Times
Wednesday, May 2, 2007

Just 24 hours after Minister for Transport Martin Cullen turned the sod on the €850 million M3 motorway in Co Meath it has been confirmed that a site of archaeological importance has been discovered.

The large circular enclosure is clearly visible on a hillside at Lismullen in the Tara-Skryne valley. It most probably would have been used for rituals in either the Iron Age or Bronze Age. The motorway
would pass through it.

Minister for the Environment Dick Roche is consulting Pat Wallace, director of the National Museum, after the National Monuments Service inspected the site. It is understood that Mr Wallace will respond to the Minister on the submission from the National Monuments Service by the end of this week.

A spokesman for Mr Roche yesterday confirmed that at the moment "no works which would interfere with the monument may be carried out, except works urgently required to secure its preservation, carried out in accordance with measures specified by the Minister".

The spokesman said: "In this instance, the archaeological team was authorised to continue to clean back the surface of the area, to complete a plan of the features and to check for associated features
outside the enclosure. A small number of the stakeholes are also to be excavated to try to recover sufficient material for radiocarbon dating.

"No further excavation of the enclosure will take place pending the decision of the Minister on any directions to issue in relation to the monument."

Attempts are now under way to have work on the 60km road stopped. The TaraWatch group, which has been campaigning for the motorway to be kept away from the historic valley, said it was now "legally incumbent on the Minister to halt works, place a preservation order on the site and
reroute the M3 motorway like he did in Waterford in 2005 when he rerouted the N25 to avoid a large Viking site in Woodstown".

The group has sent solicitor's letters to the Minister for the Environment, the Minister for Transport, Meath County Council and the National Roads Authority asking that all works on the site cease
immediately. Its spokesman, Vincent Salafia, said: "This site is a show-stopper and is without doubt a national monument of world significance. It would be a sin to demolish it. Legal and expert advice
is being taken with a view to seeking an interlocutory injunction in order to secure the site before it can be demolished."

This is the first ancient site to be found along the motorway route. It did not appear in any of the extensive tests carried out in advance of the project.

The Meath Archaeological and Historical Group said that the discovery was "unique" in the area. The group had concerns about the "unseeming haste" in trying to complete excavations at the Tara-Skryne valley. It added: "We were promised no work would begin on the road until they [excavations] were all complete and that promise has been broken."

The National Roads Authority said it was liaising with the department and the National Museum.

write to lettersed@irish- times.ie

author by Michael Martin - Campaign to save Tara & Tarawatchpublication date Wed May 02, 2007 02:54author email Wicklowwolf at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

This is fantastic news. We have gained some ground we thought we had lost . But the war isn't over and won yet. Those corrupt FF/PD gangsters created the 'National Monuments Act' in 2004, giving the Minister for the Environment the power to order the destruction of a national monument should such an order be "in the best public interest". Living in Co. Wicklow, Roche's constituency, I have first hand experience with Roche's utter disregard for our natural environment and archaeological heritage.. Putting him in charge of the Department for the Environment is like putting an alcoholic in charge of a brewery. Therefore I fear that Roche will order the destruction of the newly discovered national monument near Lismullin, Co. Meath.

author by Johnnypublication date Wed May 02, 2007 12:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Middle Ages or the Stone Age or whatever you nerds call it has nothing to do with people living in year 2007.
I want to commute to work on time - I don't have time to indulge your boring hobbies.
I know I am voting for the election - whichever parties will get the road built and get the traffic moving again.

author by Direct Routepublication date Wed May 02, 2007 13:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors


You have to laugh at how gullible some people are. Oh yes, blame the campaigners for the commuter chaos when it's got absolutely nothing to do with them. It's the politicians and businessmen who created this problem with their determination to push the road through an obviously archaeologically sensitive area and what's more taking a ridiculously indirect route to get to Navan. Take a look at the map Johnny, why does it take such a crazy circuitous route going out of its way to run into trouble? The road would have been built years ago had they avoided this route, trouble was there wasn't enough land owned by well-connected businessmen along the other more direct route. Now these guys are laughing at you stuck in traffic, turning your fire on the Tara campaigners and voting for their cronies while they look forward to further development profits down the line. We can look forward to more screwed up infrastructure projects if there are many more voters like yourself.

author by Michael Canney - Campaign to Save Tarapublication date Wed May 02, 2007 13:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Campaign to Save Tara had been planning a direct action tomorrow whereby we would 'Uncover The Truth' about the archaeologoical whitewash in the Tara/Skreen Valley. The action was to involve the total removal of the covering on the Lismullen site.
We had planned for absolute maximum care in how we were going to remove the cover so as not to damage in any way what was hidden. However yesterday's developments mean that this uncovering is no longer necessary.
The CST will still hold a demonstration tomorrow at Lismullen. This is designed to communicate the fact that there have been numerous significant finds throughout the Valley and that the whole Valley should be considered a complex of monumnets and declared a World Heritage Site.
The assembly point is the car park at the Hill at 10am.
Through the pressure exerted on the NRA and the Department of the Enviroment they had to come clean about the significance of Lismullen. This has happened at a very fortuitous time from a political point of view. If we can maintain the pressure we have a realistic chance of securing written committments from Labour, the Greens and Sinn Fein to a review of the M3 should any of them form part of the next Government.
Anyone interested in re-engaging with our campaign is very welcome. We have 60000 high-quality pamphlets to distribute and a comprehensive canvassing strategy set-out. The CST can be contacted by e-mailing info@savetara.com

Related Link: http://savetara.com
author by Ronan Conroypublication date Wed May 02, 2007 13:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We literally can't turn a sod without finding something of historical interest. Too bad. We can't stand still. We have far too much history gripped in bitter fists, and virtually no future. The manner in which necessary transportation infrastructure has been developed in this country in the last decade or two is a gross insult to every taxpayer and worker in this country. Sadly, some of the wrong people and some of the wrong pieces of Irish "culture" (ha, what a joke, we don't have one any more) are paying the price. Too bad. What specific improvement to Ireland has come from previously unearthed sites?
Time to move on. 25 years for the M50? How long did the Port Tunnel Joke take? How much did the idiot non-connection Luas lines take to build?
Enough already. Get the job done *now* - work 24/7 flat out and finish the road in a matter of months like any reasonable 1st world country would do. We desire to elect strong governments so that they can stand up and be firm when the time requires it. We need this road, now go and build it.

author by cheebapublication date Wed May 02, 2007 16:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Who will rid us of this liability?

Today at lunchtime VS has put out a statement, quoting sources in the National Museum, alleging that Roche has already directed that the National Monument at Lismullen be destroyed. This may indeed be the case but it has been established with as much certainty as can be possible in these circumstances that the leak did not come from the National Museum. That only leaves the Department or the Minister's office as the potential source.

Now could this be the case; Roche and FF want to construct the pretence that they are listening carefully and giving due regard to archaeology. Hence the declaration yesterday. But would it be politically prudent to move so quickly to direct dismantleing?

And what of the motivations of VS - how could it possibly help the campaign to put out such a statement? Could it actually hinder attempts to build political support for a re-route? If the public believe that the only National Monument to be discovered along the route is to be destroyed, the arguement for a re-route is greatly undermined.

Last night after months of silence he appeared on the main RTE news as a save tara spokesperson. He has not been involved in this group since 2005.

It is the save tara group who have mount ed the political campaign. If last nights interview was potentially worth 5000 votes for pro-tara candidates. VS's appearance is surly 5000 votes lost. Lazy journalism one might say but upon closer inspection it transpires that RTE were 'bombarded' with statements and interview requests by VS yesterday.

Stranger and stranger......sinister even

author by janepublication date Wed May 02, 2007 17:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Stop with the internal tara fighting and concentrate on the real issues.

The monument could very well be cleared within a few hours of the minister giving directions.

What is needed is a plan in place to mount a legal challenge within minutes of the ministerial direction.

once the thing is cleared then it becomes a tears and spilled milk cocktail...

author by glangevlinpublication date Wed May 02, 2007 17:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Come on all Tara supporters stop fighting each other and fight the corrupt Govt ,before they destroy Lismullen and the tara skryne valley.We need a road yes but not this route there are alternatives,also get the trains moving.Come on lets not destroy one of our greatest area's of beuaty.How many women in the world of irish descent are called Tara its a magical place that should be turned into a National monument of Ireland ,world heritage site and a learning centre of history and irish culture.

Save Tara

author by C Murraypublication date Wed May 02, 2007 19:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Save Tara is a group of people including the vigil, the local campaign, the historians
and interested people, they agreed to work in unity and have been running a campaign
together for many months.

Tarawatch withdrew from Save Tara a number of months ago and is a different org.
There is therfore no internal fighting within the group.

VS speaks for whomever he represents but is not an active member of the Savetara
list ,not a spokeserson for the campaign, which is an amalgamation, as stated,
of numerous interested groups.

There are two different websites.
two different sets of spokespeople.

maybe VS should clarify the issue because my understanding is that he chose
to withdraw from the umbrella campaign, which means that should be delineated.
I am sure that is a simple enough clarification and quite appropriate for all concerned?

author by uachtaran titpublication date Wed May 02, 2007 20:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

But we are not in ordinary times. We are only a few days into one of the most sophisticated and psychologically dirty elections Ireland has ever seen. Still - by your usual standards none of the party political spin people are that clever. This first week will see the majority of "Catholic practicant" votes decided. You townies, ancient ones and yuff haven't even be touched yet unless by the smaller "lefter" parties who might have wasted much of their electorate budget trying to sway your indecision.

If we were in a big dirty proper country - by now someone would have drawn up a list approaching hundreds of indlviduals who are "assets" to the main parties. Near the top of such list would be outgoing politicians who are overtly tied to Catholic transnational or political organisations. If we were in a big dirty proper election where both hundreds of thousands of votes go missing and hundreds of thousands of votes too many occur (let us think back to the Galician election which saw the fascist Fraga deposed by a bare handful of votes after many recounts and the Vatican was found to have sent 3 ballots for a total population of 2 galicians) by now someone would have put a gag over the useless tit's mouth and brought him out to wasteground and made him a dig a hole and then begun his true archaeological career.

Let me make nor shake no bones about this.

You are in only the beginning of dirty shite you are very honestly poorly prepared for. If you can't stop "Vote for Tara" a wonderful slogan might I add - being subverted to ensure votes for either FF or FG and a rerouted motorway with some but not all of Tara saved then change the name of the group Or disband it temporarily. If you don't think the discovery of a Henge with plausible missing artefacts at this time and its status as a "national monument" doesn't smell to high heaven then you really aren't getting out enough for fresh air & distance.

How many henges do we have?
How much money has been allocated?
What black market do you have for ancient things?
Who owns the land?
Why was the news obviously managed and spun?
Who outside of "save Tara" and indymedia ireland give two pebbles how "save Tara" is organised and who speaks for it and guides it?
how many national monuments do we have?
do we have a precedent yet for destroying one "in the public good" after an election?
Which is more valuable? A Skryne or Henge?
Which looks better on a tourist guide for a young couple in the USA with only a few days of quick neo-pagan spin and holy spot visiting on their EU tour?

Shut the tit up now. You should have isolated him a long time ago. This week Tara just didn't get into voters pysche the way you wanted - which is new solutions - alternative transport and skrynes and duns But instead a liability you have allowed develop over the last two years is ensuring a "compromise" will be reached under a new FF government.

This wasn't archaeology vote week. It was rural catholic week. I thought I told ye at the weekend. Christ on a rope of soap. How many elections have you done?

author by Adolf Mahrpublication date Wed May 02, 2007 20:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

UND IHR HABT DOCH GESIEGT !

author by Johnnypublication date Wed May 02, 2007 21:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Tara is just some hump of earth with grass growing on it and Brian Boru is dead for centuries.
All the castles in Ireland are just piles of stone.
As a kid I was dragged into the museum to look at some goblets.
I mean who cares about this except some wet blouse bookworms and other nerds who read books all day and never go out to the pub or socialise with the rest of humanity?

The Ireland of 2007 is full of people who have families to raise and jobs to go to - we don't need or want some twits with white hair, tweed jackets and leather elbow pads or some snobby young spoilt D4's who studied archeology holding up the progress of this country.

Get a life the lot of you.

author by Michael Martin - Tara Watch & Campaign to save Tarapublication date Wed May 02, 2007 21:39author email Wicklowwolf at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

We all know what Vincent Salafia has done, and is still trying to do, to save and protect Tara. But who are you, and what's your track-record in regards of saving Tara??? So it might be best if YOU would shut up and stop spreading filth and lies about people who are trying to protect our heritage from a government-sponsored wave of destruction!

author by Johnnypublication date Wed May 02, 2007 21:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

All these people banging on about Irish heritage!
The Celts were invaders.
The Normans were invaders.
All the archaelogical junk lying around isn't Irish in the first place. And by all accounts our Irish ancesters who built Newgrange worshipped the sun didn't they? Bunch of backward primitives.
What possible difference can a bunch of loonies like that make to 2007 Ireland eh?
Our sick Catholic heritage isn't worth preserving with all the child abuse.
Most of my Irish classes were spent reading Peig and crap poetry written by Gabriel Rosenstock.

A few moss covered stones, old books with squiggly drawings on them, grass covered humps are not my heritage.

My heritage is Elvis, the A-Team, Die Hard, Jenna Jameson, the Grand Prix, Man U and as much beer as I can drink.

Get a life you tossers!

author by Rubber Johnny - HEADpublication date Thu May 03, 2007 00:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Johnny you are a grade A Moron. Within a century you'll be rotting beneath the earth, part of Ireland's history just like the kings of Meath. What makes a people is the sum total of their past. Tara is an important part of that.
As for the people who built Newgrange being primitives, well worshipping the sun makes more sense than worshipping an angry guy with a beard and I'm willing to bet they had a better grasp of mathematics and astronomy than you have.

author by roccopublication date Thu May 03, 2007 03:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Prehistoric find halts some work on M3
Wednesday, 2 May 2007 17:16
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0502/meath.html

The Minister for the Environment, Dick Roche, has ordered that some work be stopped in an area surrounding a prehistoric find on part of the planned route of the M3 motorway in Co Meath.

It follows the finding of what has been described as a substantial national monument at Lismullen, beside the Hill of Tara.

On Monday, the Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen, turned the first sod on the M3 motorway.

AdvertisementThe archaeological site is said to be the size of three football fields.

The Department of the Environment has declined to state whether it has issued draft directions to the National Museum that the newly discovered national monument be preserved by record'.

TaraWatch, the group campaigning to have the M3 motorway re-routed, has claimed that such an order has been issued and will result in the monument being destroyed in a matter of days after a brief examination.

A spokesman for Minister Roche declined to say whether or not such directions had been issued to the Director of the National Museum Dr Pat Wallace.

author by Johnnypublication date Thu May 03, 2007 09:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Rubbish - they worshipped the sun as a GOD - thats not much knowledge of astronomy.

If they were so great at maths - why weren't they building cars, roads. bridges, ships, tall buildings and aeroplanes?

By the way I don't believe in an angry sky god with a beard or an other god.

author by M3 for M3eathpublication date Thu May 03, 2007 10:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So we paid 500 archaeologists to check out the line of the road and they miss this?

The anti-M3 group are always saying that the 'expert advice' is on their side. Well, they aren't that expert or we've all been ripped off. You had your chance to find it guys, we paid you, and now do what you have to do quick.

Next they'll find a buried UFO between Navan and Kells (no, we locals don't call it Ceanannas).

author by anti-pro-Cheeba Smokers of Tarapublication date Thu May 03, 2007 10:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hey Cheeba, Are you the spokesperson for Cheeba Smokers of Tara (CST)?

You must have got the position by default, since they were all too lazy to vote up there, haging out in the Teepee, smokin the good weed.

By the way, while you were asleep, they cut down all the trees Rath Lugh, demolished the souterrains at Roestown and discovered a massive temple in Lismullen. And guess what? They're going to put a road through it!

Don't worry, keep stokin' you're holy fire. So, just sit back there now and spark another one. It's all under control. The druids are going to do another full moon protection ceremony.

I'm with you all the way man. That Salafia fecker just won't shut up will he? Can't get any peace and quiet around the old hill at all any more these days, Still and all the donations keep coming in, for some reason. Free food and all. Hippy chicks think we're cool and that we're doing all the work. It's great . Feckin' eejit

author by C Murraypublication date Thu May 03, 2007 13:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This morning's papers (got for free in a coffee shop) but of the Tony O Reilly
variety has a release from Tarawatch stating that the destruction of the
Lismullin Henge is imminent.

The press release below would refute that (for the moment , anyway)

Please read Paragraph 5 +6:

http://www.environ.ie/en/Heritage/Archaeology-NationalM...n.htm

If the link does not work it is simple enough to google D.O.E (Dept of the Environment) for
a copy of the statement.

There have been many statements etc, but it does qualify as a legal document
and will be subject to scrutiny. The DOE is meantime refuting the destruction order
claim.

The provisions under the amended National Monuments Act 2004, do allow for the demolition
or alteration of a monument after it is declared within 28 days sitting of the oireachtas-thus
I would be looking for an announcement of an emergency session to back up claims of destruction.
The timing of the election and the release on discovery would refute that too.

However it is simple enough to contact local td's and ask was the order made.

author by huh?publication date Thu May 03, 2007 17:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

CM "There have been many statements etc, but it does qualify as a legal document and will be subject to scrutiny.

A press release is not a legal document. It would only have legal significance if it was submitted as evidence in a case, like any other document.

CM "The DOE is meantime refuting the destruction order claim.

The Minister is not refuting the claim. He is avoiding it. Read the Irish Times.

CM: "The provisions under the amended National Monuments Act 2004, do allow for the demolition or alteration of a monument after it is declared within 28 days sitting of the oireachtas-thus I would be looking for an announcement of an emergency session to back up claims of destruction.

You are so wrong, it would be funny if this weren't such an important issue. Have you even read the Act? What provision are you pretending to quote?

The National Monuments Act 2004 made an exception for national monuments found during the course of approved road developments. The Minister does not have to give a Section 14 consent any more. He only has to give directions, which he can do for any reason he likes. So, there is no requirement of putting an order before the Dail. Besides, it is 21 (not 28) sitting days which usually takes the better part of an entire Dail session.

CM "The timing of the election and the release on discovery would refute that too.

CM "However it is simple enough to contact local td's and ask was the order made.

If you read the article carefully it does not claim he has made a legal Order. It says he has made the decision, and that he has submitted a draft of the directions to the Museum.

But the real questions remaining are much more pressing. It is clear from the Indo that the NRA knew about the site weeks ago. But it is becoming rapidly clear that the Campaign for Tara also knew about the site for the last month and not only suppressed it but made an April fools joke out of it.. Any of the following sound very familiar?:

Work on new M3 is stopped after find

Sunday World
April 1 - 2007

WORK has been halted on the new M3 motorway at Tara after a remarkable find by one of the construction workers on the scheme.
Now, archaeologists believe the area may become a major tourist attraction to rival Stonehenge, the Valley of the Kings in England, or
nearby Newgrange. "We have found significant important ruins and remains which would suggest that this was a major seat of Government in preChristian times," said archaeologist Seafoid O Breagadoir."The discovery was actually made by a JCB driver. It was a bit like that lucky find of the medieval psalter in the bog in Tipperary last year. We were fortunate that he was paying attention," Ms O Breagadoir said. "There is a very strong Roman influence in what we have found," she said. "It is clearly some kind of parliament building with luxurious baths, leisure areas, a large paved area where they obviously left their chariots and horses and some kind of bar or place where they ate and drank," she said. There is also a major ancient road leading to the spot, she said. "There is some evidence - though we need to make more enquiries - that this whole thing was the work of one man. "Even back then, people kept demanding that their leaders carry out improvements and development. We have seen evidence of that in other areas, such as Wood Quay, Clonmacnoise and on the Aran Islands. "But others opposed his ideas. This man was powerful, though. People paid a heavy price for his methods and the way he bulldozed everything that stood in his way," she said. Mr O Breagadoir said she hoped that, following the find, that the Government would alter the route of the M3, especially as this was only one of many.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hilloftara/message/2661

Here, M Ni Bhrolchain claims she was speaking to the reporter before it was printed, and she knew it was going to appear.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/savetara/message/1615

Today she also claims to have well placed sources in the Museum, "We have not had any confirmation that the minister has ordered the monument to be removed in the next few days. I have been in contact with the Museum and with others very close to this discovery."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/savetara/message/1729

So, why is she naysaying TaraWatch and what appears to be the truth, since even Roche did not deny it on the Irish Times today?

It is clear that she has known about this site for over a month, and said and done nothing to alert the public, except to supply the Sunday World with a sick April foo's joke. What she is up to now is anyone's guess. But her Labour Party colleagues are going to get a few votes and that's what count, right?

Funny, I don't remember Labour making any presentation to anyone about a re-routing/alternative plan as Gilmore is claiming. I remember hearing about it after the Minister made his decision, but not before. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyone?

author by C Murraypublication date Thu May 03, 2007 17:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82321

We are not all trained lawyers, and I never claimed to be.
Muireann is running a list and does not have electoral or other ambitions.

Common sense would say that the press release does what it says on the tin.
There must be a period of 28 days sitting of the Oireachtas, (now dissolved)
before the current Minister for the Environment can fulfill his 'duties' under the
amended National Mounuments Act.(2004)

Tara is about a lot of things, and many bring different ideas and issues to campaign.
I would question why the abolition of Duchas* has not been alluded to by TaraWatch
or the pertinence of such enormous rights abuses that are evident in SIB.

The Minister has made a public statement refuting the claims of Tarawatch who claim
that a destruction order , disguised as a record keeping excerise is in place.

The Planning and Construction guidelines* which I retain have not been requested by any group
which describe the methodology of route choice and state quite clearly that a
route will not be chnaged after EIS.

so I shall be giving them to my solicitor.
they are very interesting in the context of Ms Olivia Mitchell's claim that the chosen route
was flawed in today's independent.

*(Feburary 2003)
*NRA:- Planning and construction Guidelines, the link to the conference at Croke
Park is on the Newswire-

I still feel that there has been a failure to create a political and environmental
context for the Tara issue.

author by Michael Canney - Campaign to Save Tarapublication date Thu May 03, 2007 18:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Of course holding them to these committments is another story entirely, but it does vindicate a strategy of winning public opinion through coherant arguement. Only public opinion can prevent this motorway. This from the Labour Manifesto publishend today;

'The Labour Party is opposed to the building of a
motorway through the Tara-Skryne valley. We
accept that the M3 is necessary to relieve
commuter congestion and that it should be built
in three sections. However, the section through
the Tara-Skryne valley should be re-routed to
avoid the destruction of our Celtic heritage.

We are particularly concerned at the possibility
of major development being attracted to the
area around the motorway, which would
contribute further damage to Tara and its
environs. Labour in government will work to
prevent such development taking place.'

author by W. Finnerty.publication date Thu May 03, 2007 19:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

New details emerge over Lismullen site

Two extracts from the recent RTE report (at http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0503/m3.html ):

"As the site is in a small hollow, archaeologists believe it would have allowed others to stand on the nearby ridges to watch the ceremonies taking place inside the enclosures."

"Ms Deevy said there was a similar enclosure found by geophysical surveying on the Hill of Tara, which, at 200m in diameter, was much larger."

Related Link: http://www.kingollamhfodhla.com
author by Delpublication date Thu May 03, 2007 20:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

huh you asked so read the Motion laid down by the Labour Party in the Dail Debate on this route.

Dail Debate 23/11/2004.

author by Mick Eganpublication date Thu May 03, 2007 20:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Del, you beat me to it...............I just couldn't remember the date and was surfing for it when your post popped up.
I would add, for those still in any doubt, they should read the same Labour Party's Election Manifesto issued today.

author by Muireann Ni Bhrolchainpublication date Fri May 04, 2007 12:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A supporter of the Campaign wrote to both Fine Gael and the Labour Party on the recent discovery. Here are the replies from both, press release from E. Gilmore and reaction from Fine Gael that is very interesting.

Labour plan would have prevented M3 delay
Issued : Wednesday 2 May, 2007
Statement by Eamon Gilmore TD
Labour Spokesperson on Environment and Local Government

In November 2004, we proposed in the Dail that the M3 be developed
immediately in three sections, and that the controversial section,
running through the Skryne Valley be rerouted.
If the Govt had accepted that proposal the situation where work on
part of the M3 was halted yesterday, could have been avoided.
While the authorities didn't know the full extent of the
archaeological heritage in the area, they were aware that there were dozens of sites
of archaeological interest.

We argued that bypasses around Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin could
have proceeded and that in the meantime, an intelligent and sensitive
redesign of the controversial section of the proposed motorway could
have been undertaken.
Environment Minister Dick Roche wouldn't listen. He poo pooed our
proposals at the time and as a result, the project has been held up,
for who knows how long.
///////////////////////////////////

The same enquiry elicited this very interesting response from Fine Gael:

Thank you for your recent email regarding the M3. I am writing to
you on behalf of Deputy Olivia Mitchell, Fine Gael Transport Spokesperson.
In relation to the recent discovery on the M3, Fine Gael would
consider re-routing the road to avoid this significant find. A similiar
accomodation occured in relation to the Viking site at Woodstown, Co. Waterford.
We will, however, await the deliberation of the National Museum on this issue
before making a definitive decision on this issue, but would certainly be
open to the proposal.
Kind Regards,
Amanda Glancy,
Research and Policy Officer,
Fine Gael Policy Office,
Fitzwilliam Hall,
Fitzwilliam Place,
Dublin 2
Tel: 01 6694742

author by Muireann Ni Bhrolchainpublication date Fri May 04, 2007 12:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A supporter of the Campaign wrote to both Fine Gael and the Labour Party on the recent discovery. Here are the replies from both, press release from E. Gilmore and reaction from Fine Gael that is very interesting.

Labour plan would have prevented M3 delay
Issued : Wednesday 2 May, 2007
Statement by Eamon Gilmore TD
Labour Spokesperson on Environment and Local Government

In November 2004, we proposed in the Dail that the M3 be developed
immediately in three sections, and that the controversial section,
running through the Skryne Valley be rerouted.
If the Govt had accepted that proposal the situation where work on
part of the M3 was halted yesterday, could have been avoided.
While the authorities didn't know the full extent of the
archaeological heritage in the area, they were aware that there were dozens of sites
of archaeological interest.

We argued that bypasses around Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin could
have proceeded and that in the meantime, an intelligent and sensitive
redesign of the controversial section of the proposed motorway could
have been undertaken.
Environment Minister Dick Roche wouldn't listen. He poo pooed our
proposals at the time and as a result, the project has been held up,
for who knows how long.
///////////////////////////////////

The same enquiry elicited this very interesting response from Fine Gael:

Thank you for your recent email regarding the M3. I am writing to
you on behalf of Deputy Olivia Mitchell, Fine Gael Transport Spokesperson.
In relation to the recent discovery on the M3, Fine Gael would
consider re-routing the road to avoid this significant find. A similiar
accomodation occured in relation to the Viking site at Woodstown, Co. Waterford.
We will, however, await the deliberation of the National Museum on this issue
before making a definitive decision on this issue, but would certainly be
open to the proposal.
Kind Regards,
Amanda Glancy,
Research and Policy Officer,
Fine Gael Policy Office,
Fitzwilliam Hall,
Fitzwilliam Place,
Dublin 2
Tel: 01 6694742

author by Michael Canney - Campaign to Save Tarapublication date Fri May 04, 2007 17:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We will be asking the party to reiterate their stated policy (which strongly favors a re-route) and ask them to communicate this to Navan...

M3 work halted after discovery of massive pre-historic site
>
> An Phoblacht
> http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/18971
>
>
> An Irish Government order stopping work on the M3 Motorway was made on
> Tuesday after a massive pre-historic site was discovered at Lismullen
> beside the Hill of Tara in Couty Meath.
>
> Sinn Féin general election candidate for Meath West, Councillor Joe
> Reilly welcomed the decision.
>
> “Sinn Féin has being saying for a long time now that Tara and its
> surrounding hinterland are of huge significance in terms of Ireland’s
> history and heritage. Today’s discovery, of an archaeological site the
> size of three football fields, proves the significance of this site.
>
> “I welcome the Minister’s order to stop work on the motorway that
> would have destroyed this hugely important piece of Irish heritage.
> There is a viable alternative route for the motorway that has been
> proposed by Sinn Féin. The Minister must now take this route into
> consideration”, Reilly said.

Related Link: http://savetara.com
author by C Murraypublication date Fri May 04, 2007 21:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Chuala me tusa ag chaint faoin an 'Henge' ar Radio na Liofa, a chara. Maith an Bhean.
Ta an nuacht sin go h-iontach, tog sos i gceann cupla lae.

Ta se h'iontach freisin go bhfuil Padraig Wallace ag caint faoin henge leis an
t'athair Dick Roche, anois, beidh seans agaibh ar duchas a shabhail.

Theip an comhrialtais ar ar duchas agus ar Teamhair!

Gur a mhaith agatsa agus an Feachtas!

author by Siobhan Rice - TaraWatchpublication date Fri May 04, 2007 21:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The 'Pots and Pans' label was given to another Reilly. Who is on the management of the NRA. His christian name escapes me at the moment.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with Joe Reilly of Sinn Fein, who has always strongly supported the reroute.

He was the only local candidate who was at the public oral hearing in January. No candidate from the greens or Labour showed up.

Sinn Fein have been very consistant in their opposition to the destruction of Tara. In fact more so than any other party. Therefore your comments are false in the extreme.

author by Michael Canney - Campaign to Save Tarapublication date Fri May 04, 2007 22:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sioban is so on the ball.
The wrong Mr. Reilly is described by the nickname if refers to Tom Reilly a FF coucillor from Navan. Apologies to Joe.

author by Michael Martin - Tara Watch & Campaign to save Tarapublication date Fri May 04, 2007 23:28author email Wicklowwolf at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

You got it wrong Michael. The nickname 'Pots and Pans' was given to another local politicians, a Meath county councillor from FF, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Mr. Reilly contesting the upcoming election on behalf of SF.

And I don't think that the Sinn Fein / Reilly statement is weak. They/him made it quite clear that SF are opposed to the motorway going through the Gabhra Valley. That's all what needs to be said!

author by W. Finnerty.publication date Sat May 05, 2007 08:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Sinn Féin general election candidate for Meath West, Councillor Joe Reilly welcomed the decision."

"There is a viable alternative route for the motorway that has been proposed by Sinn Féin. The Minister must now take this route into consideration”, Reilly said."

The above two statements have been taken from http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/18971 .

I hope you get elected Mr Reilly.

Related Link: http://www.kingollamhfodhla.com
author by Sio - TaraWatchpublication date Sat May 05, 2007 18:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If anyone is wondering what the 'Pots and Pans' rant was about. It was brought up by Micheal Canney who confused poor Joe Reilly of Sinn Fein ( who has done great work for Tara) with Tommy 'Pots and Pans' Reilly. Unfortunately this was deleted by persons unknown for reasons unknown.

Happens quite a lot whenever Tara is being discussed. Are dark forces at work here?

author by Chris Murraypublication date Sat May 05, 2007 19:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I do not have any ability to remove parts of the thread on indy.ie , as I
am not an editor or administrator on the site.

I do have admin on a women's site and write mainly on feminist issues.

I do not have any inside info on anything, but have been writing on planning for awhile
and also on varied other legislations.

I am a list member of Save Tara , but do not go to protests etc, as i am busy in other directions.

[ Most of the above is verifiable by both the savetara campaign and the editors at indy.ie
i get a lot of releases every day from many campaigns]

author by Pat cpublication date Sat May 05, 2007 19:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Chris is not an Indy moderator and neither am I.

Go to the link below and you will see which comment were hidden and the reasons for hiding them:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-ireland-newswire/

author by Michael Martin - Tara Watch & Campaign to save Tarapublication date Sat May 05, 2007 22:17author email Wicklowwolf at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Not "dark forces", but obviously people who have a problem with freedom of speech!

author by Michael Martin - Tara Watch & Campaign to save Tarapublication date Sat May 05, 2007 22:37author email Wicklowwolf at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sinn Fein and Joe Reilly spoke out against Tricky Dickie (Cock) Roche's plans to force the motorway through the Gabhra or Tara/Skryne Valley long before the Labour Party jumped on the Tara bandwagon and even before the Greens got in on the act.
Therefore Joe Reilly would be a well-deserving candidate for your No. 1 vote!

Don't be fooled by Labour. It was Brendan Howlin (Labour) who signed the destruction of the Glen O'Downs while Labour was part of the last rainbow government during the mid-1990's. Labour has a very poor record when it comes to the protection of our environment. Most of those Labour big wigs don't even know the difference between an oak tree and a nettle!

author by Archivistpublication date Sat May 05, 2007 22:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The point being no-one really tells an oirish person how to vote Michael.
nit-picking being the order of the day, however, it seems....

There has been a consistent attack on the left wing parties by yerself on this
and other threads. The irish PR sytem means that you can number one to whomever
you like and go right down to 12-13 if it floats your boat, however if say SF have an excess
they transfer to other parties, thus it is likely that the SF candidate could transfer to Green/Labour/FF.

also giving green/labour/sf 1/2/3 would ensure a 'spread'

it is very different to the german voting system. there is not a one man one vote
situation in Ireland, but rather an even spread so we don't really do a first past
the post thingy here.

Now to be absolutely sure that SF don't transfer to an ailing running mate of say, Noel
Dempsey, you have to get to asking them who their ideal voting pact person is/would be
before making the assumption that it might be green/labour/FF or even PD!

Info on P.R (proportional representation is available in libraries and most
school history books- for example it is not used in England or the US)

The US enjoys the electoral college anti-democracy swing situation.

author by Michael Martinpublication date Sun May 06, 2007 08:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thank you very much for your lesson in Sociology (I think that's the correct term for political education in schools nowadays?) ! Without your lesson I would have never been able to figure out the Irish voting system, nor the German one, inspite of the fact that I have been living over there for years, dear Archivist!
But since you lefties (I presume you are a leftwinger since you object to me criticizing failed leftwing politics) actually can differenciate between the Irish and Germany system clearly shows that you guys made a big step forward in evoution in recent years. 20 years ago or so the average western European commie barely managed to spell his/her own name, depended on social welfare hand-outs from the "capitalist system", and was perpetually high on LSD. Congratulations on making a big step forward on the ladder of evolution, Archivist and "comrades"! And if in your next step forward you guys manage to drop the infantile hatred against anything American or Israeli, then you commies can almost be mistaken for human beings!

author by Archivistpublication date Sun May 06, 2007 11:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

How international is TaraWatch !

A US educated Lawyer and a German citizen telling us how to run our business.

Do either of you have a vote or the ability to stand for our hallowed and corrupt Dail?

How do you manage the Irish language media- do you have a translator?

Anyway- all that is beside the point, afterall this is about Tara and not the scorn
exhibited in the comment above.

author by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain - Campaign to Save Tarapublication date Sun May 06, 2007 13:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Sunday World has a 2-page spread on the Tara campaign in today's paper with references on two more pages.
They are all written by Paddy Murray long time supporter of Tara's cause.
Buy the paper, see the pieces and mail Paddy at paddy.murray@sundayworld.com
Ask for more coverage, congratulate him.
This will ensure more coverage - this is crucial coming up to the election

Related Link: http://www.savetara.com
author by Michael Martinpublication date Mon May 07, 2007 12:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Eductated in the U.S.! How horrible! No, we definitely can't have anything tainted by "Americanism" involved with Tara! And now the the Germans moving in as well? Germans on the Hill of Tara! What a horrible thought! All what's missing now is one or two Israeli citizens campaigning for Tara. Then our left wing friends in here really would die of a heart attack!

Keep smiling, Archivist!

author by MIchael Canney - Campaign to Save Tarapublication date Mon May 07, 2007 13:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Michael Martin, while a very regular attendee at our meetings is not authoried to speak on behalf of the Campaign. His post referring to Sinn Fein and Labour represents his own personal view.
At yesterday's meeting the above post and thread was discussed and Michael was instructed not to post anymore comments using the Campaign name.
The policy of our campaign is to ask people to vote for candidates and parties who provide written committments to review the current proposed route of the M3 motorway.
So far, Labour and the Greens have provided such commitments. We are very confident that Sinn Fein will alo provide such a commitment given their strong and cosistent stance on this issue over the last few years.

author by Michael Martin - Independent Tara Campaignerpublication date Tue May 08, 2007 00:56author email Wicklowwolf at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Press briefing and protest tomorrow, Tuesday, May 8th. For further details click on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hilloftara/message/2904

Everybody is welcome. Please come and show your support for the protection of our heritage.

Related Link: http://tarawatch.org
author by Aesoppublication date Tue May 08, 2007 09:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"United we stand, Divided we fall"

Related Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_we_stand,_divided_we_fall
author by Confuciuspublication date Tue May 08, 2007 14:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

But Tara are one of the most disparaged yet vindicated campaign groups to emerge on modern Ireland's social & cultural assembly scene probably know what you mean.
It's a great little (oxymoronic?) motto. But it has very little application in the world of either Man or Animal whence Aesop the slave derived the characters who crowd his enduring and pithy wisdom. All the same his wisdom wasn't pithy enough for short stabby sentances you could put in a fortune cookie like mine - or carveon a short easy to carry Ogham stone which hopefully Dr Muireann and crew (yep even Vincent) will soon be carefully taking out the dirt.
But some applications there are - fishies for example. You're average little fish fears nothing more than a big bad tuna or shark. And so whenever one of those characters comes along the only defence is swimming together as a shoal in the hope that either orca or shark will get to confused and leave the dense mass alone. IT works too - up to a point. Because you know there is always if not a bigger fishie out there - a seriously social and smart mammal. Apart from the obvious abuse victim Fungi, almost all dolphins are capable of crossing huge distances in search of things to eat like tuna or plastic bottles or tampons or whatever you can flush down your loo. They aren't put off my the hording tactic at all. In fact they have been observed to encourage it in stand-offs with sharks. They herd the little fishies together and use them as a barrier to confuse the shark who generally gives up - and then bam! they eat their little fishies but always for some strange reason leave just enough little fishes to replenish the little fishie population so that future generations of both shark and dolphin have something to eat.

A Shepherd once found the whelp of a Wolf and brought it up, and after a while taught it to steal lambs from the neighboring flocks. The Wolf, having shown himself an apt pupil, said to the Shepherd, “Since you have taught me to steal, you must keep a sharp lookout, or you will lose some of your own flock.

& thus we see that pilfering shop staff are the keenest to catch shoplifters.

You're doing great you Tara people !
dig that very big UFO up!

Related Link: http://tarawatch.org/
author by Diane.Brentwoodpublication date Thu Oct 25, 2007 00:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I just read through the postings below. Would it be possible to filter out those with expletives? The inappropriate choice of wording reflects poorly on the individuals who write these things and is also distracting to people who would like to educate themselves about Tara without the distraction of so many inappropriate remarks. Of particular point & note is the level of education expressed in such comments. If those who write such disruptive remarks could return to their dictionaries and re-check the definition of the words they chose to use, they may find a more appropriate venue of expression.

author by Madame kpublication date Thu Oct 25, 2007 00:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

.

garda_car.jpg

author by Memories of TVpublication date Thu Oct 25, 2007 04:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Brings me back to the early days of Telefis Eireann, with the long running Flintstones cartoon series. Fred and Wilma Flintstone, living in their megalithic cave with several modcons like a car with stone wheels and a refrigerator, made viewers laugh at the quirks of modern life. Let's have more hard hitting cartoons please. Laugh the modern barbarians into shame.

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