Distortion of Thought. Drugs a Social Problem in need of informed input to gain impact

by K Walsh - Social Justice and Ethics Wed Nov 16, 2005 21:48

Yes, 'Knowledge is no load'.

There appears to be a form of denial concerning the frequent murders of young people with a connection to illegal substances distribution and the economic, physical and social costs involved.

The 1980's saw the drug issue become so disruptive of families and community that it instigated local people in Dublin 2 to mobilised.......

by Con Carroll - Class War Thu Nov 17, 2005 14:30

I am fed upwith the bleeding heart liberals
what about other peoples families,
these three scum who were killed in Dublin this week
were directly involved in making a living off the backs of others from cocaine heroin
COCAD should be back on the streets of Dublin
PUshers OUT

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Thu Nov 17, 2005 21:42

Con

I understand the emotion of being tired with bleeting liberals .... I presume you refer to what I am writing.

But I value the input of Cocad, and so many other groups. I have attended addiction lectures along with people who directly suffered the plight of the drug addiction within their neighbourhoods and more importantly suffered the plight of the effects to addicted children. Moving was the experience but also, it was an inspiration to see their dedication to looking at all routes to address the problem

At all levels, one must promote a knowledge about drugs, the implications, and the fact that addiction goes beyond so called class.

Those involved are weaned to crime of taking the drugs but worse again to becoming dealers and destroying the lives of others.

Econonic greed provides a very strong and destructive motive for some people.

On this note I am going to suggest another article I found on www.sciammind.com article titled Smarter on Drugs.....

The key here is the concept that people take drugs to enhance their intelligence.....This makes one look at motive.......

Think of this realistically and you can trace motive through school, into universities, into professions, into Hospital A&E as recently revealed about St. James.

Great work has been carried out in Fatima Mansions for example and people involved in that struggle have moved to universities like Trinity and are there to the forefront fighting against drugs in their communities.

Michelle Clarke

by Con Carroll Fri Nov 18, 2005 17:47

MIchelle
I put it to you that people who use drugs do so because they are alienated from the political social establishment.
demanding that finance in education for our future children, proper social housing, professional trained proper financed youth recreation services for youth is our first priority
as long as the drugs crisis is situated within working class communitties the state couldn't give a dam.
what we are now doing is putting bandages on wounds.
ask yourself one question the crisis we now see regarding heroin, crack cocaine, cocaine.
if this were to take place in upper class areas of Dublin/Ireland. the state turning a blind eye?
how long would people put up with this?
I can assure you it wouldn't be tolerated
we have set up treatment clinics. employed people in good employment, who remain silent in direct confrontation with the political establishment.
out doing each other to get funding. keeping out radical dissent voices.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sat Nov 26, 2005 22:14

Con - I meant to respond immediately but with the TBI (the film 50 dates), I just don't remember yesterday or in fact in excess of a quota that the brain dictates in the individual day - in fact my life throught a horse riding fall complicated by bipolar condition and anxiety gives me a hands on view of alter states...

and I wish that people could grasp the hell imposed by mind altering drugs, be they legal or illegal.

I watch children with these games. The motive is competitive initiative and I say to myself why can't the games give the kids an exhillaration that says 'Be Sensible'.

David McWilliam's has a new book called the Pope's Children. I heard him interviewed on the Pat Kenny show and I liked the reference he made to newly emerging; enlarging middle class....he referred to them as the Expectocrats.

Do we believe that if we expect something that it will manifest? Do parents believe that if they provide the care, the education, the siblings quantity, that their expectations will become their children's expectations.

Do people listen to their children; do the children hold an attention span these days with the speed of change? Will the children hold the same vision as their parents? What about 'Fair Trade', Pakistan; Make Poverty History and Sir Bob Geldof......

I am listening to a poet, on the Radio who spent many years of his childhood and later years in hospital. There is no bitterness rather a spiritual; compassionate, understanding view on life. His name is Philip Casey and he too found expression through the web as a source of compatibility with his disabilities and his creative abilities. Philip made a most interesting point, one that most definitely applies in my case. He says that the brain operates in different ways; in different rhythms and within different spaces. This is profound yet lost in our Educational curriculum.

Con. You are so right about Alienation from the social and political spectrums. There is tokenism and also commitment by researchers who reports fall on deaf ears.

The ability of not listening and using distraction techniques is the preserve of our politicians. Listening to the politicians speak at Westminister versus the shambles of the televised Dail we get, is really an insult to the people of Ireland.

Research to be found lurking everywhere in Ireland but nobody acts on it. A Country is similar to managing a corporate company. Motivation is a priorty. Some companies are too interested in paying their shareholders and not adopting proper practices towards their employees. These companies need to be keep in check by The Competition Authorities and Regulators. This does not happen with Ireland plc......we the people need to take up this cudgel and ensure that Democratic principles apply.

Con. I agree with you about education. I think it is the only way to make people aware. Added to this I would place the word integration. What I witness is that in Ireland you tend to 'fall between stools' once you entercounter health, social, ethical problems....No matter where you started you are heading to what Charles Murray wrote about in the US....i.e. The Underclass.

All this research being carried out at Universities finds its way out on to Ministers files and televised promotions and thereafter goes where!

My experience of acquired disabilities over the last 15 years has been seek out your own knowledge and then try and share any benefits from there. There is too much verbosity and lacking in compassion.

One more point. Our prison system for young offenders. Why are we back at the Deterrence motive through sheer boredom. Reading NewScientist.com; American Scientist.com and using the internet, there must be ways of arriving at a curriculum that can equip these young men. I heard a woman writer on the radio last night.....she was involved in a murder in Australia. She now has a life; so much so that she can talk about it and write about it.

Nietzche is a philospher I like. This saying says a lot
'He who knows the reason why can deal with any how' To know, helps. (I must add that Nietzche committed suicide.....but at least he had the capacity to think about life etc)

I listened to Prime Time the other night and a Mother spoke. I met her at a Fine Gael meeting a number of years ago and she was fighting hard for her son, alas he is in jail. The point is that his mother is still fighting for her son and others in his position.

Someone said that Cocaine is popular in the emerging middle classes.....these can often be the people who know it all and listen least. I call them the 'ignorant educated'. I would suggest that as the Christmas party season starts for them that they take a little advice and read a little around drugs, psychiatric problems, children who are different........Then we may have the first step to addressing a really serious situation. (I heard recently that our legal profession partic. those at the Bar are very prone to Cocaine and of course alcohol).

We are quick to stereotype the mentally ill.....but parents and people in general ought to take more responsibility. Ecstacy and other drugs initiate the precipitating events for bipolar, schizophrenia.

As a person with bipolar and anxiety, I would say those people avoid the drugs; find something else to interest you. Leave your mind alone.....scientists know too little about it.


Michelle Clarke

Aptly Muhammed Ali/Cassius Clay (1942-
Wings to Soar
'The person who has no imagination has no wings'

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Wed Nov 30, 2005 23:26

Drugs are attracting much attention the last few days.

If you get a chance to watch The BigBite at 9.00 a.m. Thursday 1st December 2005, the topic is Drugs and D4 Connections to Gangland.

Then yesterday there is an interesting articlle written by Shane Hegarty.

The title is Middle-Class drug users cannot deny link to gang murders.

How right Shane Hegarty is to say 'Recreational Drug Users do not like to admit that they are helping to fund criminal gangs.........'

Why do we tolerate so easily what we should not accept while we are totally lacking in tolerance to what may be for our good and is a challenge to us.

Is it time to look inwards and seek redress in the form of self reliance.

Blame is inherent in our culture but is it time to acknowledge that blame in itself is a form of dependence and start seeking answers. More importantly to start thinking, challenging, researching and asking questions. Never before was there so much information and data available to people than via the internet and virtually no cost.

Do we even visualise the link? That drive in a sports car perhaps and a deal exchanged in say the inner city. That drug be it Canabis/Heroin/Ecstacy moves from blatant criminality to a gentrified exchange where one finds the three monkeys....'see no evil, hear no evil, do no evil'.

The reality is that those at their 'ignorant educated' dinner parties engage with no sight and no hear but they too re engaging in the evil of the gangwarfare that supplies the drugs in this country.

Shame those who accept the practice...They have a responsibility to this society.

The hospitals that facilitate recurrent drug addictions also ought to be held accountable to our society.

Shane Hegarty talks of the social cocaine users. He states that the United Nations World Drugs Report 2005 places Ireland in joint third place, for cocaine use and in joint 6th place for ecstacy.....out of 30 countries. This is unacceptable. Why?

We need to grasp the significance that any drugs can lead to precipitating events that leave a person with a mental health history, the stigma and a life of un-necessary pain.

75% of the GDP in Afghanistan is the supply of cocaine (it reduced slightly this year). Yes the beautifuly Poppy... associated with the War Dead.

What is this but Good and Beauty in terms of death, pain and suffering.

The programme on the state of civil unrest among young people throughout the country, the cities is a sign.......It states that there is something lacking in the home or the education system or the working of the community........Houses should not be boarded up and if they are Council policy should react immediately and put a new family into the house (who might better able to deal with issue). Boarded up houses are found in England and they add a morbidity to an area that demolishes any prospect of hope.

We need some compassion in Ireland.....particularly from our politicians and their interaction with a lazy bureaucracy.....

Michelle Clarke

by Kevin Walsh - Social Justice and Ethics Fri Dec 02, 2005 23:11

I agree. A broad spectrum approach is urgent, I would think.

Part of this spectrum of drugs was witnessed on the television last night. The country being Singapore, a highly regulated and controlled society.

But there is always the trafficker who will take the chance. The Australian was charged, sentenced and executed...!! The Australian Govt. tried unsuccessfully to intervene on his behalf.

Fewer than expected people turned up at the Church for prayer as this man died....in a foreign country for greed, addiction, apathy whatever.

Michelle suggested New Scientist

I don't normally buy magazines about Psychology but I was in Easons and saw a new edition.

You can't learn if you don't take a chance so I would recommend this if you can access on the Web. It is called Psychology Today ... The main feature is on a Cure for Worrying...How to freak out more effectively.. www.psychologytoday.com

Another article is about 'Reaching your Self Potentional....The surprising truth about self-fulfillment.

Coming back to drugs and drugs addiction...there is article on Can interventions save additcts? It is worth a read. A heading and an article of one page is a real thought provoker and eye opener about the effects of what we consume and digest in our bodies.

Article is in NewScientist.com

It says simply 'A Pregnancy drug can affect Grandkids too'

We talk about DNA but science is about learning and change occurs many times within the 24 hr. period........


Kevin Walsh

Gandhi
'You have to be the change you want to see'

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sun Jun 11, 2006 00:10

The Criminal Assets Bureau and sourcing funds from criminal activities.

What about re-investing in action programmes for those addicted to drugs, to alchol etc.

Michelle

Quote: Gandhi 'You have to be the change you want to see in the world'

1996 to 2004: Almost 7 billion Euros from crime now in the coffers of the State. Research by Combat Poverty.

Why is this not re-distributed to deal with the serious drug related outcomes here in Ireland. Young people suffer; their children and families. Drug Awareness is vital and perhaps some form of similation exercise that shows susceptible people just how unpleasant the downside is......is worth considering.

There is lots of research gathered but little action other than to fragment programmes already in place in say the city of Dublin. It was people, at ground level who reacted in the inner city in the 1980's and Fatima Mansions......

I was listening to Fr. Brian D'Arcy interviewed on the radio. He made a comment that really rings home with my experience of young people. The difference today is that Religious habitual practice and love is replaced by an enthusiasm; the sense of being 'full of good' - he suggests an inherent spirtuality exists as distinct from fear induced control.

Lert us nurture this spirituality amongst the young and actively seek redress from Govt. to expend funds sourced from crime, to rehabilitate people beholden to addictions; those who are victims of crime; those who sustain acquired brain injuries;

Michelle

by coconut Sun Jun 11, 2006 14:45

I don't believe the government or politicians should be trusted with so much money seized from crime. They shouldn't even have it in the first place, it should be immediately redirected to rehab centres and people willing to help, not criminalise, people addicted to drugs.

by jack Mon Jun 12, 2006 16:39

yes its a great money spinner for the gardai.
when this cab came in to effect in 96 it was praised that it would help everyone from drug addicts to the homeless empty promise's from tds. the gardai have charge of this money and none is forth coming to date it is a disgrace goes to show that garda dont give a tossser about drug addicts or the homeless well those gardai with the power anyway. makes one sick to live in this type of society.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Mon Jun 12, 2006 21:42

People need to ask questions. People also require just and equitable replies.

Two Tier Ireland is regarded by some as a Police State. I note as I walk in towns signs on premises saying 'No - to the Nanny State'.

I witnessed an event that causes me great disturbance today. I had to attend the public services psychiatrist for a renewal of my drug prescription.....

When I contributed at Mashambanzou in Zimbabwe, along with so many, I was forever humbled by the nuns I met there and their vision, kindness, action, results outcome for those people suffering from HIV.

The words remain with me always. There was little to give but time; reassurance about mothers' children; provision for little children; and a time nominated for a common spirituality and letting go. The ethos was 'Dignity in Death'.

Public Psychiatric services in Ireland need to have regard for the dignity of people and their contribution to a health reform routine. Rules form bureaucracy but rules also can be broken when appropriate to avoid humiliating situations for people in distress........I felt ashamed I did not make a stand. However, when I noticed the 3 Gardai, I did ask N, would he like to walk out with me..........I asked the two Garda who asked to have a word with him, if he would be okay. I hope someone listens and hears what he is trying to explain and then understands his immediate problem.

Nobody hears what we say otherwise the might establish that just sometimes we may know the route to handle our problem but that we need a certain kind of help to effect it. Do the various 'professions' talk' to each other or is it still the inverted snobbery of Dispensary and private practice times.

People are People. Some are young, some are old but we all need Hope.......Where is the vision for Public patients? Vision is about imagination and the contribution of social as well as economic capital.

How can this achieved if the Registrars are changing ever six months and do not necessariy share the patients 'culture'. Where is Hope? Mental illness is long term and it is expensive, i.e. if the patient does not commit suicide........

We need the pharmaceutical companies to exercise the social and ethical responsibilites and contribute Mental Health Services in a positive way. (What about Research done by Universities like Trinity........when is the dust removed so that it can be reviewed adding a time dimension. I would love to know where the Trinity Horizon Programme research is? Why it is not implemented? Maybe Mental Health Funds deprive us this right......well then where are the Corporates? Where are the drinks companies like Diageo. Psychiatric problems are so often muddled by alchol or drug addiction problems. It is time to stop the denial and get thinking and most important get socially inclusive.

I want to know why Mental Health is such a backwater in this country. I want to know why I meet young girls begging for money to feed a habit on the streets; their children in foster care; and a process health coverage not available to them..........I want people to understand that multiple life events can cause people to develop psychiatric problems, to be more drawn to alchol, illegal drugs etc. Cognitive psychology has a lot to offer in coping strategies......We have free education and yet the differential in salaries between lawyers, doctors and other professions is divergent.

Do people ever ask why a person can study medicine compliments of the state and earnings can come from stategic private practice whereas snother may choose another route......earn a lot less. The equation is not balanced in a free education system when the choice thereafter determines very different incomes. What comes to mind is Economics and Supply and Demand. Why the cartels? Who decides the numbers for say Social work or psychologists?

Michelle

Quotation from Amnesty book Bright Spirits - 'Making a Discovery'
Carl Sagan (1954-1996) US astronomer
'When you make the finding yourself - even if you're the last person on earth to see the light - you never forget it'!!!!!

Wisdom surely.....................

I had to get a Taxi and what an interesting exchange....Sharing information can mean something. He told me about an advert in today's Star paper. The advert reads that if you contact the web address, they will deal with administration to ensure that you speed through the waiting list and don't pay for your operation. I pass it on.......This is O'Leary, Ryanair economics at work
I

by Jack Russell - Social Justice Ethics Thu Jun 15, 2006 22:32

The period involved is 1996 to 2004 and the amount is Euro 7 billion approx.

A person said to me that my figures are way out so I contacted the source of the article '26 counties and the underbelly'.

I have emailed Republican Youth Social Movement and they confirm.

Figures were also derived from the 2004 Criminal Assets Bureau Report and they say note page 14.

Can anyone else throw some light on this?

I know that a percentage of the money in the Northern Ireland ARA is distributed to the members of the Association in form of a high inducement and motivation.

Jack Russell.........of the terrier family.
He wants to see a distribution of funds back to the community, particularly those affected by drug addiction........and into the education syllabus of young children.

St. Augstine (354 130)
Early Christian.......

Ways of learning.

'If I am given a formula, and I am ignorant of its meaning, it cannot teach me anything.

BUT if I already know it, what does the Formula teach me?

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Jun 20, 2006 19:27

Coconut: You are right. Immediately, the system out to be addressed and funds need to be made available to addicts and particularly young addicts, who are also parents trying to survive a system and withdraw.

Who cares? Who really cares? Often as I walk around Baggot Street, I watch with grave sadness the white or ashen grey faces of thos attendin the clinic. I ask do they get respect there? I ask are the motivated or are they treated as just 'dross' or hopeless cases, not to different to the way public services regard people with mental health problems.

The return on investment is too low and input is high and afterall - what do they know, given that the drugs play hell with their memories, self esteem, motivation etc.

I agree with you Coconut. The CAB is busy hauling in funds. I wonder if it has a priority list and if so why are the drug pushers and their loot not high priority so that we can have the funds to have initiative.

For example. Baggot Street Hospital. I wonder if this being purposely run down so that the HSE can sell to say a developer.

Do people realise that the famous Mr. Carnegie who donated the funds to establish the libraries in Ireland, was first and foremost, of humble origins who emigrated from Ireland. He understand the necessity of Libraries and Education.

Also people like Michael Caine and Sean Connery from extremely humble backgrounds forged their way not through the education system, but through libraries and reading.

Lets think about Baggot Street. We have history. We have architectural splendour, we have an environment conducing to all people mixing - i.e. all class, creed, race.

Just a bizarre idea. Could we ask the like Atlantic Philantropic Mr. Chuck Feeney to engage in a form of joint venture to help drug addicts, mental health patients, older people, brain injury people to work in an integrated way. The stepping stone would be a library of the most up-to-date kind, that would allow patients to engage in their own research; and position them for a new start in life.......of course we can't foreget the alcoholics.

There would need to be staff that are motivated, wtih drive, empathy.

Yes, they say the CAB has brought in Euros 7 Billion. It is worth going to the Revenue page to seek the amount brought in from the start of the purge of the corruption gurus.........now a Revenue woman is targeting x% of those who earn over Euros 50 million. This has become a most lucrative policy of this government.......

Yes. Baggot Street opened 24 hours.....staffed...and funded by Philantropic funds. Medicine, Psychology and a Library of the future.

Let's Empower people. These young people addicted to drugs are not criminals they are victims of a system that gains funds for their own use.

I hope someone can move this forward.......We want drug pushers out or give them a get out clause to take a life altering experience via education and knowledge.

Let's work on models.........Then we can Watch and Wait.

Listening to Vincent Browne the other night about Charles Haughey and corruption, to me he appeared to look at corruption through a different lens......I grasped it as this......

Corruption is our money before it feeds the coffers of
Government. However, what about the corruption of human
beings.....Where is the hope? Where is the money they are due for
Mental Health Services; drug addiction, alcohol addiction. Why the Suicide? Suicide is about despair and acute personal pain. Fear is closely died in. The Samaritans are excellent.......but so much more is needed to tap......what lies within each of us.........

Who directs policy regarding the Funds taken up by the CAB? Do we know the level of priority given to the Drugs Trade haul - where is the money regarding the hauls. Where is the so called transparency, accountability and Ethics.

Quotation selected by Michelle

Rosa Luxemburg (1870-1919)
Free Thinker
'Freedom is always and exclusive freeedom for the one who thinks differently'

So often the system punishes these people.

The turf war. Every person shot means another is assigned to the post of dealing.........Shame on us.

by Jack Russell - Social Justice and Ethics Sun Jun 25, 2006 20:22

The drug probelm is getting worse. More sources exist, more dealers exist, the territory is zoned and the brutality of murders and self imposed sentences.......can only cause us shame.

The CAB is gaining immense funds, but it is now looking like certain sentences involving renowned criminals may be quashed.

What allocation of funds received by the CAB are being distributed back into community awareness work in the community. The problem is so much worse than when Veronica Gueiin lived 10 years ago.......Why should we allow Governmental bureaucracy and greed detract from her endeavours. It is time the public started to look for funds distribution from CAB.

The problem must be dealt with. Our people deserve it.

Can someone please confirm just how much CAB have seized in 10 years. The paper s today state Euros 150 m and another earlier article by RYSF say Euros 7 b as per Combat Poverty Agency. This discrepancy is an indicator of just how little we think of the Drug Scene and curbing crime with an allocation of funds to Rehabiltation and Education.

Let us start listening to people who work 'on the street' like Fr. McVerry - he has a good article in Reality magazine this month.....good common sense.

Again, I will make the point.......Shame and alienation in the so called professional middle class contingent......could be most effective. These are the people that pay over the odds for their coke and know they can attend social events and snort......the others are in fact cowards and don't wish to make a stand. We need people who are rehabilitated from addiction as social mentors.

The messge must be made clear at school.......Mental illness can be activated by the use of illegal drugs.....first time only. Manic Depression, Schizophrenia, paranoia is a life-time sentence. As a manic depressive, I really believe young people need to know what drugs can do to their lives........

Ask the question? How many of these ruthless dealers are in fact taking drugs themselves?.......They would be unable to orchestrate their criminal activities if they were addicted. They are just greedy, cute and self seeking......They look for the vulnerable so that in effect they can have power over them. They bully, they control, and they destroy lives.

Ireland has an issue with child poverty. 1 in 5 with period of 8 years. How many of these children are affected directly or indictly by these cut throat gangs. How many children have lost fathers, familly members recently to the 'gun'/ What fast car, big house, is worth causing another a life time of pain.....hardship. Why do these gang members have so little respect for their fellow human beings.

Think of HIV/Aids. It is real and it is an awful plight, I was involved in a project for mothers and children in Zimbabwe and the stripping down of the human being to carpasi; listlessness and imminent death was heart rendering........Being poorly with a viral condition is not to be recommended........We must also think of the children of addictrs.....Give them a chance, please.....

Heavenly Touch
Phil Bosmans - contemporary Belgian Priest

'Humans cannot live on earth unless they have a little bitt of heave in mind or hear'

To the family, friends and only son of Veronica Guerin.

Michelle

Recommend: New Scientist, Nature, magazines for the most up-to-date news on scientific matters.......On the web to..

by K.T. - Observer Sat Sep 02, 2006 01:44

Michelle and those who answered

In relation to the amount the CAB has accumulated since its foundation in 1996, in that time the brainwave of Nora Owen and Ruari Quinn. The CAB has not brought in the Walt Disney figure of Euros 7 billion. Just in case, the geniuses out there, who are legions in their own minds, like tabby, 7 billion is 7,000 million. The CAB brought in between Euros 65, to 75, million recouped from gangland and other shady characters. Some money is still outstanding from Ray Burke and others.

I am surprised again that nobody corrected the Euros 7 billion Disney Land figure.

I admire your articles about putting some money back to help those poor unfortunate people who are heroin addicts and other substance abusers. Now we have cocaine, which up to some years ago, was the 'Castleknock' past-time drug and now we find it is the Fianna Fail past-time drug but realistically it is freely available all over Ireland......including Craggy Island!!!

K.|T.

by No to illegal drugs - Wake up. Who know's who is snorting? Mon Sep 04, 2006 01:14

Imagine that the illegal drug market capitalises at 1 Trillion US Dollars. This greater than the Oil and Petroleum capitalisation

by Michelle Clarke - Social Inclusion; understanding and compassion Wed Sep 06, 2006 20:50

Re-entered Wednesday 6th September....Does not appear to have registered on Sunday.......

There has to be another way. Shame if research has sunk so low.

Drugs of the illegal kind are a plague to present day Ireland. An island country, boats land and Gardai services are underfunded by Government to actively protect our coastline. Our coastline is beyond protection because of its geographical stand, surrounded by water. Inland the problems are similar with drugs available in virtually every town in Ireland. Why are we so ingnorant or more appropriately Denial?

Recently I read that the Illegal Drugs industry worldwide exceeds ! Trillion Dollars........it is in fact larger that the Oil and petroleum sector. 70% of tthe GDP of Afghankstan comes from the sale of Opium/opiates.

Then we read about Trinity College Dublin in todays Newspapers - heading : 'TCD Ecstacy Scandal - Ecstacy users paid for brain scans.

Niamg McElroy Exclusive
'Ireland's top university is recruiting E-popping teenagers to experiment on their brains. (Did Joe Duffy not cover an similar accusation this time last year?)

Where are the Ethical Bodies that so often comprise the academics from these Universities?

Trinity is apparently searching for right handed people ecstacy users who take part in a massive brain study. The meagre and insulting payment is a Euros 10. Yes, exploitative of the vulnerable, and an endorsement of a mentality that allows students to breach the ethical standards all for a 'publication; a paper; with a signature. This is nothing short of mercenary.

Are we aware that there is a part of immigrant population involved in circulating drugs that have an altered ingredient specification. Yes, sometimes rat poison is added!!!! This is about trade and a sub-trade in illegal substances.

Shame and lets call for an Ethical investigation of the Department converned in Trinity College? What pharmaceutical company is behind this massive Brain research programme.

Personally, I am more impressed with the US and UK forms of research via the media and involving people who can make these choices.

I am manic depressive and subsequently sustained Acquired Brain injury. I am on a cocktail mix of drugs. It may sound strange but I gained entry to Trinity BESS programme in 1997 and in my final exams sought to write an autobiograpichal thesis as an alternative to examations in that final year. However, inspite of the meeting convened between the professors of the faculties, my psychologist of 5 years, my PA, the Disabilities department - no one could agree on the decision they made. I gained an education but am horrified that young people or others could be sought for experiment purposes thus legally acknowledging the taking of an illegal substance i.e. known to be responsible for causing manic depression and other life-long mental illnesses?

Wake up time. There are other ways. I would ask the question about drugs like the SSRIs and barbituates - surely they share some of the components of Ecstacy and there are many people with manic depression who would willing give of their time and experience.

7 young people (Gangland) people have been murdered since January and then two more in Spain (Westies). The Gardai travelled over to have the bodies identified. One of these young men's brothers, I believe, works in Trinity College. It makes me think of a poem written by Robert Frost - Two roads diverged in a wood........and I took the road less travelled on'.....What about research of the middle ground and not the extreme? What about personal experience, in exceptional circumstances?

Where are the Sociologists? Where is the Contextual? Where is the education that warns young people of what illegal drugs can do? Interact the people with those with personal experience; those programmes like Outside the Box, and three 60, people in the National Rehabilitation hospital and in psychiatric hospitals.......

The Taoiseach now has the issue of cocaine snorting on the agenda as photographs are alleged to verify a certain FF councillor as a man who snorts Coke.......Who else?

Sometimes I look at a young person eaten with illeggal drugs, I recall Zimbabwe and being with mothers; children and men who were HIV positive and who died........and I feel a shiver going through me and the words in my head 'please release them from this potential death sentence'.

Let's start asking more about this Ethics, Morality, Governance, Equity. I am not sure about this has Trinity Business Department become involved with Transparency Ireland?

Quotation
Heroism
'I am a hero with coward's legs'
Spike Milligan (also manic depressive......)

This must spurn on an integrationist approach between what is quite blatantly right and wrong..........

Michelle Clarke

by d'other Wed Sep 06, 2006 21:49

Are we aware that there is a part of immigrant population involved in circulating drugs that have an altered ingredient specification. Yes, sometimes rat poison is added!!!! This is about trade and a sub-trade in illegal substances.

Which section exactly of the immigrant population are circulating these drugs with rat poison added? Have you yourself ever bought rat poison? Do you know how expensive it is? Why would any career drug dealer with a profit in mind spend money on rat poison to kill their own customers? Even if they wanted to use a substance to bulk up their supply to increase profits do you not think they would use cheap, easy and safe chemicals like sugar?

Where are the Sociologists? Where is the Contextual? Where is the education that warns young people of what illegal drugs can do?

Its the agenda of people like you, who ramble on as if the researchers in Trinity are some cancerous Satanic implant in the educational system, to prevent research on drug use. Then will have no context or analysis to go on. Anyway why are you going on about drug education when you yourself don't exhibit the slightest clue about them and just mouth out the usual tabloid scare mongering about immigrants selling rat poison to kids

Repeating racialised myths about rat poison in drugs is far from the sort of education on drugs kids need. Personally speaking the media do a disservice to drug education by offering hysterics like yourself and Grainne Kenny a platform for their views.

If its your view that these experiements are 'legally acknowledging the taking of an illegal substance' then the only thing you have to offer the debate on drugs is that we all bury our heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the taking of illegal drugs. If your concerns about morality and the lack of grey areas between what you define as right and wrong ever become the dominant voice in the drugs debate then we are all screwed.

Thank christ for the net. A place where kids can get accurate information on drugs and more importantly ask for advice without the moralistic condemnation the likes of yourself apply.

http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/
http://www.erowid.org/

by badman Wed Sep 06, 2006 22:18

Spectacularly badly informed rant from michelle. If she thinks that using drug users for experiments is wrong, how does she propose that we study the effects of drug use?

by Michelle Clarke - Social Inclusion; understanding and compassion Thu Sep 07, 2006 01:32

Universities.....Who questions research methodology...?

Badman

If the surprisingly bad rant from Michelle spurned you to reply, perhaps you would have noted the suggestion therein......

I am surprised you have no opinion other than personalised criticism..

Have you anything to say other than experiment with those with illegal drug history for a ten euro token. Shame on you!!!

Try a Quotation:

Jean Paul Satre - French Writer and Philosopher (1905-80)

'When the rich wage war it's the poor that die'

by badman Thu Sep 07, 2006 03:17

I'm not the one spreading rubbish about immigrants and rat poison.

It is very common for research to offer a small cash incentive to subjects. There is NO OTHER WAY to discover how drugs affect users than to actually examine the users. Do you think that performing research on people with cancer is somehow encouraging cancer?

by Jack Russell - Ignorance and Understanding and Compassion Sat Sep 09, 2006 13:09

Badman or blindman - you read the wrong article.

Michelle wrote about one of our leading University Colleges, Trinity, giving ectstacy a form of status among young people. Michelle was right in my opinion.

Now Mr. Bad/Blindman. This country is full of research; research; committees; subconmmittees; tribunals etc. The biggest scam in Ireland today is those people who sit on committees with their fan clubs. Michelle never mentioned cancer patients and you are quite an insensitive little man.

Your comment researching cancer to cause cancer is abhorrently arrogant especially when Michelle's article made no mention at all of it.

I have been reading Michelle's articles on Indymedia now for a number of years and I would only wish that some of you would have the brainpower to see where the lady is coming from.

Now seeing you are so interested in research Badman, I suggest that tonight being Saturday night, hop in a taxi, head to Glasnevin and a Councillor will show you how to snort Cocaine the Fianna Fail way. So why not research 'them'.

Michelle wrote an article sometime ago to personal matters in her life and I couldn't believe the lack of charity and understanding among Indymedia in relation to some of the replies she received. This lady has written some excellent articles on Health, depression, suicide, brain injury etc for years - and I know she has personal experience in these areas.

Interaction and respect for one's view in relation to certain topics gives people like Michelle the motivation to write, not nasty remarks, like cerrtain people do give on this site.

There is a number of dubious names writing on Indymedia that I would like to line up and see as people. I know my Jack Russell's gut feeling is right - they are a bunch of lonely middle class men who pull the goose on a Saturday night and cry on their pillow.....

This site has deteriorated in the last number of months, I have noticed. Could we stop the fan clubs and start to interact more on all topics?

Suicide is an epidemic in this country right now yet I don't hear much of you making a comment about it. Is there a major denial even on Indymedia. I miss Sean Fleming's writing on this site wherever he is gone. I hope he hasn't joined McDowell's new party FTCP, from Monday. In other word it means, F...the Culchies Party - D4 only need apply.

Let's get interactive about Research Ectasy and addictions was the point of Michelle's post ...

Jack Russell

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice Tue Sep 12, 2006 21:35

K.T.

Thank you for the clear outline of Disney Land and 7 billion euros.

I like the comment about our Drug Culture at every class level.

Money paid to the CAB with its origin from Drug dealing, ought to be allocated to areas like Moyross, and inner city areas where drug addiction is nothing but a blight of human beings.

Michelle Clarke

by Kevin T. Walsh Sat Sep 16, 2006 20:56

Michelle

Having read your article, I admire the diversity in relation to a drug problem affecting the Island of Ireland for over 40 years.

I have worked with Simon for 25 years, I have been in morgues, I have seen the destruction caused by drugs in this country.

The reply you received from d'Other is getting like most replies we receive these days on the Indymedia, nothing more than personalised criticisms.

Seing that d'Other is such an expert, probably he ought to join the research the Trinity and he will eliminate all our drug problems and make life so much easier.

Last month, my niece told me about the Trinity research programme, she is attending Belfield. She could not believe the pompous attitude of some of her friends attending Trinity in relation to this drug research programme. Some of the Trinity students refer to these E. users such names, they are just unrepeatable. Now d'Other, there is research going on in Trinity for the last number of years and and there is no outcome from considerable amounts of taxpayers money.

Trinity has amassed millions for research in the past number of years but isn't it amazing that after 40 years of serious drugs in Ireland, we are having another research programme which gives certain privileged medical and psychology people bonuses for attending, and fat salaries for years of setting up a fan club during research.

I propose that d'Other and Badman go to Trinity and take over the research, seeing they are so expert on criticising peoples views on the website. Be careful lads - Trinity Academia called Joe Duffy a peasant from Ballyfermot, some years ago........

With a background of science, rat poison has been added to the dove-tail ecstacy. Seeing I am not a politically correct as Michelle is, you called her Racist. If you have read her articles over the last 3 years on Suicide, Depression and Health, you would realise Michelle is one of the most expathetic writers on this website.

Yes, we have a flood of immigrants coming in here and any culchie Gardai will tell you that a lot of drugs are coming in via certain Eastern Europeans in Dublin. Fact not Fiction. So if you want to call me racist, please do, given that you are so politically correct.

Fact:
Only two weeks ago a young man died in Mountjoy prison from a bad line of cocaine.

Fact not racist.

Now Badman and d'Other - let me given you a lesson for free (no Euros 10)

Wherever there is a conflict between political correctness and common sense, I will take the common sense way.

There is an old story lads. Some genius in the EU a few years ago, introduced the word Political Correctness - I never met him but I would love to. Why? Because like you, he lectures and doesn't listen. Now political correctness means if you are passing a circus tent and your child asks you 'Dad, is that a circus?' You have to say I don't know Darling, I will have to stop the car and go in and ask the gentleman. When you go in and see a clown on the way out, the child says is that a Clown dad, you say no darling, you can't call anyone a clown, it is not politically correct. It is actually racist!!!! And there was me thinking all of those years that common sense interacted with political correctness in relation to not lightening your farts near petrol pumps.

I got Michelle's point, I am sorry you too did not. I did not agree with all of her article in relation to Trinity but the lady is entitled to her opinion. I didn't miss that the lady is bipolar with traumatic brain injury, as you did, and with these two conditions it takes courage to write articles. The loss of energy cost is very high for her.

There was a march today outside the Mater hospital in relation to our people dying on trolleys. We had Sharon Grace and her two children leaving Ely Hospital in Wexford minus any help, I am sure you know the outcome. So go now and criticise the people who deserve criticism.

K.T. Walsh and Jack Russell

(I would suggest men like Fr. Peter McVerry be invited on the Research teams....he works at grassroot level.....not some ego insecure gent from D4 who thinks Finglas is somewhere in the South of France.

Sorry lads - here I am again being racist and not politically correct.

Quotation
Religion
'You can judge politicians by how they treat refugees, they do to them what they would like to do to everyone else if they could get away it'

Ken Livingstone (1945) Maverick left wing British MP, expelled from the Labour party. Mayor of London

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Oct 03, 2006 21:26

My recollection of Johnstown, Navan Co. Meath, over 30 years ago now, was a remote village, with a Church, school, a few houses and green .....

The land was developed over time and now many families live there; including children and teenagers.

How sad that a man in his thirties could be so greedy for money that he would abuse his evident talents, a business man, a pilot, etc and could forsake all, particularly his own children, to smuggle drugs by private Jet (Mansergh owned?) into a private airstrip at Weston Airport.

These people are ciruclating with those who they can potentially supply drugs to or worse to their children. It is time for people to take responsibility in their own locality and alert themselves to the potential dealers who destroy the lives of many.

According to the newspapers, there is a wife with 2 children, and another partner with a child.....Why?????? Shame to people with the insatiable greed that it makes them prey on vulnerable people and our young people.

Last week, a man from the Castleknock area was interviewed about the local pharmacy serving methadone.....the alternative for those who are addicted to certain drugs.

The issue made the newspapers and the news. The scorn, the plea of danger to children in nearby schools did nothing other than condemn those addicted to exclusion. Let us note that cocaine is now regarded as a classless drug.

Has anyone ever noticed the young people who attend these clinics; their children (sometimes addicted). These people are not necessarily at fault, it is the dealers who use them for their greed/need.

Well done to all those who clued in and found that one of our 17 airports was being used for vicious illegal purposes related to illegal drugs.

Quotation
Nina Simone (born 1933) Jazz musician, and civil rights activist
'You don't have to live next to me; just give me my equality'

by Michelle Clarke - Erratum: Weston Airfield Fri Oct 06, 2006 02:05

Bracket: (Mansergg should read Mansfield).

Michelle

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sun Dec 31, 2006 22:52

Something to think about as we approach 2007. It concerns changing attitudes as a prospect......

Worth the price of approx Euros5 Scientific American Mind.

The last edition was about the Teen Brain - mri scan findings:-

This month there is a reply from a Medical Doctor (in here rests hope)....

This man is a surgeon who counseled cancer patients for 30 years (he also worked at Yale university). The man appears to be a doctor willing to engage in change and acknowledge same. He reflects that doctors are not educated during training because the training is about disease and not learning from the patients' experiences. Each living experience, he now acknowledges to be unique....

Tip
Ask a prospective doctor if he has been criticised by his fellow doctors, nurses, etc. A yes answer is about a good doctor. Advice from a good MD.

To the Consultants of Ireland, to the HSE, to doctors in general.....Do you not consider a form of integrated health treatment and link to research not to be in the best interests of people.

from a patient; student at Trinity, and a hostile world out there, when life circumstances alter significantly.......I firmly believe this is the way forward.

Presently, I am either psychiatric, psychology, Traumatic Brain Injury, communication difficulties, complicated by Chronic Fatigue virus for over 3 years now........Only for the the introduction to the computer and the Science magazines, it would be impossible, services do not exist.
I live in Dublin 4 so people assume no such problems.....no true. Brain injury can often see a loss of executive function, sequencing, co-ordination. Three words that when you comprehend from experience have extremely serious implications about lifestyle......

Keep Searching........Do not fear criticism; but there must be hope and acceptance....

Michelle Clarke All the best for 2007

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sun Jun 17, 2007 20:58

Only a few words but maybe someone will review earlier postings on illegal drugs, and ignite the flame to deal with this awesome consumption of illegal drug addiction and destruction that is classless in its prey of sensitive and vulnerable people.

Dr. Neligan: I recall hearing a friend's description of an unexpected heart attack - connections and linkages found him being dressed for theatre. He spoke of Dr. Nelligan and his banter with him, until he went out. It was a successful by-pass and the input of Dr. Nelligan was suffice recognition for him to keep build back the necessary strength both physically, mentally and emotionally.

My sincere sentiments to the Neligan Family, friends, associates, people involved with addressing addiction - this is a time of great sadness.

Michelle Clarke

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Wed Aug 29, 2007 21:16

The topic is Suicide.

Living on Wellington Road, and taking a walk on a balmy evening with my friend. Two homeless men sat on the seat earlier in the day and now there was one, probably middle age like me, but life had dealt him a hard hand; the demon was drink. His eye had been damaged in a fight, his legs were badly impaired - he said he had several operations.

My friend said to me as we said hello and yet passed by..... this is a form of suicide we witness daily on our streets....... and yes we do in Dublin 4.

Yes it is.......there is a hopelessness in the condition that sees these people homeless, disconnected, without a source of communication, without a health service. We think of suicide in isolation but let us witness the other slow and hideously dangerous usurpation of the human being.......and not forget these people also.

The Criminal Assets bureau and their officers recent luck with the large haul of drugs off the coast of Kerry need urgently to be counting up the value of these hauls and allocating funds to getting proper centres up and running for the people on the road to hell of drug addiction and get them back as contributors to society.......

I know many sources of help exist like Drug Awareness, and the dedicated works of Alice Leahy and Trust.

When you fall down on your luck, and your health begins to cave in, the system is unapproachable and then you start to drift.......the system now allows those who have mental difficulties 'out' but the truth is they form clusters and because of problems like I have with plain arithmetic the move in the cycle of petty theft, medication confusion, taking alcohol which they should not do with drugs and social services/community welfare officers just treat them as outsiders with stigma.......and again you have this underclass phenomenon from the US filtering into Ireland.

Awareness of every human being and the frailties are essential to the discussion about suicide.......

Michelle Clarke

Quotation
Jean Paul Sartre (1905-80) French Writer and Philosopher
War
'When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die'

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Jan 22, 2008 18:33

First started writing on this subject in 2005 and looking back, the only thing I know is that more people are dead, people continue to smuggle in drugs in a vast variety of ways, people go to prison and worst of all young people die. They party.....they take cocaine (sometimes not knowing that you can't take it if it is wet) and as we realistically know this January, these beautiful young people die.

What a cost to our Society? Fate or Error who knows.

How can we stop this?

Countries like Afghanistan and now Iraq have become the growers of the Poppy......a flower of beauty and sadness.....and the tiers of corruption appear. Layer by layer, greed ensures more and more money. The target being the pundit, the buyer, the user, the person who will be manipulated to pay more and more and trade friendships to make rich men richer. How can we stop it. They now say 'Education' does not work........perhaps it might work and affect some vulnerable people. We need hope.

Friday 11th January The Times........article by Sandra Bergen 'It's a different way to hit the dealers.

James Bone reporting New York:
Sandra Bergen age 23 has won her case in a Canadian court against the dealer who suplied her with crystal methamphetamine that almost killed her. It was an old friend who sold her the killer drug. This triggered a heart attack leaving her in a coma for 11 days.

Calvina Fay, director of the Drug Free America Foundation suggestted that the case offers a new dimension to penalising dealers.

This ought to be given some attention at all levels in Ireland - it could benefit people.

Website. www.methtoday.com
This is anti drug site and speaks to school children about illegal drugs.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Jan 29, 2008 17:46

Start with the premise that dealers are everywhere. The profits to be earned from illegal drugs are responsible for gathering into a fishman's net more and more young people, daily.

We embrace a morally defunct nation in Ireland? Nobody wishes to take responsibility to protect vulnerable others.

Living as I do, in the leafy avenues of Dublin 4, with a window that looks directly into the local private school, we often cite those opportunists looking for young prey.......eager minds to be different!!!!

Well done to the Irish Examiner. A handy booklet is included with today's Irish Examiner dated January 29th 2008.

Title: Let's talk Drugs.......
How to talk to your children about drugs?

a child of the 1970's with a very astute and aware Dad, a dispensary doctor, and born in the inner city.....he was particularly cautious of addictions.......his approach to me and my friend Sandra (she won the Young Scientists that year on Addiction)........was to talk, to show understanding, to provide knowledge from medical journals and tapes mainly from the UK......

Ironically, I avoided alcohol and illegal drugs, but bipolar and anxiety determined the legal drugs which are not too unlike illegal drugs.....it really is all about component parts......and this can even include rat poison or be dampened.......You really do dice with death. This is the message to convey. Too many times, we are tempted for the wrong reasons - maybe because people are shy, or there is a social anxiety disorder, fear. The computer exists now and if there are problems, look them up, seek out options, and talk about them. Really Avoid Drugs. Poppies are so much nicer growing in the fields of Afghanistan or Iraq than passing through the murky hands and converted to heroin or cocaine to destroy the lives of people in Ireland..........The cost is just too high and the pain too great for people and families.

Be Alert and let us promote the use of Drug Dogs used in other countries. These drug dogs are presently denied access from pubs, restaurants, Churches, the Dail, schools.................If we really care about people and want to reduce the supply of drugs by reducing the price criminals receive, then lets think laterally.

Drink Awareness run an excellent programme about alcohol and the affects, they offer advice etc. I would ask them to move a stage further and condemn the possibility of illegal drugs used in public spaces, and pubs (after all, if people use cocaine, they drink less) and push forward a more attractive public space, with conversation, debate and hobbies.

Again, if you can get the Irish Examiner........The knowledge to be gained this time is bare faced......factual explanation of what can kill people.

Henry James
'You cannot change what other people think but you can change your attitude'

by :-) Tue Jan 29, 2008 20:12

It would be nice to let drug dogs into the Dail to sniff round the feet and pockets of
our wonderful deputies and friends in high places, How is the FF guy doing, btw?

If sniffers are allowed into social and educational institutes then by all means extend
those rights into the Dail- same goes for bugging, data retention and failure to treat
human beings (of any age with equality and dignity)

......................................................(but it never really works that way, they get away with
lies, obfuscation and blackmail for many years)

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Mon Nov 24, 2008 17:32

:-)

Today, I found your answer. Absolutely, to rely on the dog to sniff out the drugs in the universities, and pubs, it now looks as if it would be more appropriate to have sniffer dogs at the Dail and trained with extra functions relating to correct expense claim forms for semi Government bodies......the news abounds today. No doubt, it will have n outcome.

Michelle'

by Michael - Human League Mon Nov 24, 2008 20:22

Yes of course it would be such a wonderful idea if sniffer doggies who are employed by the state ( I.E. Us ) to do the job they have been trained to do.
But from 1 canine civil servant to sniff & snitch a human comrade may prove difficult to 'complete' . But wait ,we the people of Ireland employ 166 Ministers
to do their job , However there seems to me to be 4 Million of Us employers who have put in the 166 and they 'aint doing their job ( S ) .

Maybe we could put plan z into action and retrain our canine friends to just Go In anyway and use their new methods of training to bite the xxxx off of the 166 ,all in the name of duty etc.
''Theres a good little doggy ''

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:09

Michael

What a good idea about thedogs and direct entry to the Dail.....to tap into deriviatives practiced by politicians. How many of the politicians have invested in Anglo Irish.....Will we ever find out? Corruption Corruption Corruption

Illegal drugs: Money, hard cash......where will it be safe.

To my horror, the money, over 100,000 was stashed with dogs held for illegal purposes. The dog wardens made an astonishing find but the state of the animals would make your despair.