Mass Occuaption Under Way At Department of Education.

by Get an Education Fri Aug 20, 2004 15:48

What are grnats?

by paul c Fri Aug 20, 2004 03:15

3 months late? during hols

by (0) Thu Aug 19, 2004 23:05

A registration fee to be paid out of term. During the summer hols.

by toneore Thu Aug 19, 2004 22:54 toneore at eircom dot net

A student protest out of term. During the summer hols. Good one. How some people ever get into college...

by incriminated Thu Aug 19, 2004 14:16

http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=115

by Dónal McCormack - TCDSU Wed Aug 18, 2004 21:15

Heya,

Large Pictures and Vids are available immediately at the link displayed.

For smaller pics, go into one of the directories shown in the link.

Cheers,

Dónal.

by Fergal Wed Aug 18, 2004 16:14

Personally I found it rather odd that the Labour party opposed (along with the PDs) an FF proposal to charge fees to those with an annual household income over €100,000. I would have thought that people with that kind of income oughtn't to be the recipients of state assistance. This is why the whinging about the First-Time Buyer's grant was unjustified. But of course, to criticise these subsidies would be a vote-loser.

by shinner Wed Aug 18, 2004 15:44

Are those Mary Lou McDonald posters you were using?

by antrophe Wed Aug 18, 2004 15:37

http://ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=111

Photos, videos and all that stuff is availible online at the above link

by shinner Wed Aug 18, 2004 15:32

You see, this is the absolute problem with Indymedia, you go on it looking for a debate and you get abuse rather than answers or indeed any thing of relevance. I go on these sites both to give my opinion but also to listen to others and to be educated. I live in hope that I will go on this site and make a statement and somebody will, through real debate, actually change my mind.
A little bit too much to hope from yourself however Curious Socialist?

by Curious Socialist Wed Aug 18, 2004 14:58

Maybe the firm that built both the Andersonstown News premises and Sinn Fein's Sevastopol Street HQ might be lectured on paying the minimum wage then I might believe in your willingness to believe in a fairer distribution of wealth. Won't hold my breath till then.

by shinner Wed Aug 18, 2004 14:47

No I try to justify campaigning against the distribution of wealth to those who need it and I just can't square the circle .

by Curious Socialist Wed Aug 18, 2004 14:43

..then you only try to be a socialist?

by Starstruck - Activist Wed Aug 18, 2004 14:43

Should have stayed in the building.
Empty promises do not mean !leaving on one's own terms"...
Fair play to all involved nonetheless.Good action well planned.
Demands must be met before leaving though.
Democratic decision was allegedly made to leave so fair enough.
More to follow

by shinner Wed Aug 18, 2004 14:31

Of course it is, however without a government willing to accede to a fair distribution of wealth through an equitable taxation system I am willing to take what I can get at the moment in order to improve access. There is no real argument against those who can afford to pay doing so for the betterment of those without. In a just society those who have should also contribute to improve the lives of those without.
I find it curious that it is the Left who are opposed to the distribution while others such as FF are pushing it, a bit of a crazy parallel universe thing going on I feel.

by Curious Socialist Wed Aug 18, 2004 14:23

Isn't it a basic tenet of socialism 'universal free education'?
Methinks you sound more like a social democrat!

by shinner Wed Aug 18, 2004 14:09

Are these the protests that have happened to the Dail every year for the last how many? I remember taking part in one 2 years ago where 10,000 students took part; I also took part in one at my own college in Galway.
The major problem facing student Unions is that it appears they are supporting the status quo, they are happy to campaign against fees when it is not the real issue, the fact that 90% of people in certain areas are denied access to education is the real story. When they take actions because 60% of the student population has to fork out an extra 80 quid most people ask the question "So What?"
Why should the very rich in our society not pay, what is wrong with a fairer distribution of wealth? I don't see the problem, all I see is people being denied access to education and a method that could increase participation. On the other side I see a USI who are protecting the privileged and the current student population and ignoring the plight of those who do not get the opportunity.

by KPK Wed Aug 18, 2004 13:59

The fact that they left at their own predilection would indicate that you analysis is spot on about this being a media stunt, and one if the press is anything to go by, which has failed even to do that.

by occupant Wed Aug 18, 2004 13:58

congrats guys great stuff. Trump card? no way USI's trump card is a mass demonstration of bewilderment at the present govt. i.e. thousands of students marching upon the dail.

Occupations have only started, what dept is next:)

by Ned Ludd Wed Aug 18, 2004 13:55

There is a substantial difference between a few hundred people lining up against police lines, and engaging in an action to directly achieve something through people power. And well, a publicity stunt.

by Kerry maid Wed Aug 18, 2004 13:52

I heard Rory Hearne of the SWP on RTE yesterday saying how wonderful this student occupation is. Why were they so against such actions in the anti-war movement??? One line for the students, another (more moderate) one for us?

by Ned Ludd Wed Aug 18, 2004 13:29

While its true that the trump card has been played too soon, this was the most impressive USI style action in years, when we say USI style action - we all know what that means. Using the stylings of direct action for media attention, and once thats achieved going home.

One problem I have with this is that it discreditis radical tactics in the student movement when these things go wrong, like when the media don't show up. They also muddle people's conception of their own role in a movement, how disempowering is it for someone who potentially would support such an action to wake up and see it take place, despite them and their personal attempts to get involved in the student movement being ignored or walled off by the hierarchy of how it currently organises.

Often USI events like this really are all about creating the illusion of a radical student movement which doesn't exist on the ground. If people coming out of secondary see this action and get excitied by it, it will be up to grassroots activists organised in campaigns to offer them a route to particiption in student activism. Because USI won't, and now that we have a trot as deputy president, I don't see why he'll change anything. It's a structural problem, there are not enough activists to ensure the direct democracy function of USI works, instead it remains representative. Changing the personalities at the top changes nothing.

These type of actions are at their most powerful when they are based around the desire to build a mass participatory movement of students fighting for social change. It would seem obvious that there is a total misunderstanding of the role of occupations in the current student movement, the USI leadership and union hacks have monopolised the tactic for media stunts. While on the general campuses there is not a sufficently strong movement with the imagination to fill the gap.

Something that particularly irks me about USI these days is the total lack of any political awareness. When students chant 'what do we want? Free education.' What do you mean? If the minister turned around and said, 'grand, here's your free education, I'm not raising registration fees.' We'd be greated with the same level of singing and dancing that some elements of the CFE managed two years. Registration fees are not the only issue putting people off college, what about housing, the cost of health care and books and so on If the student movement wants to get anywhere, it really has to start making demands of the state instead of spouting meaningless glib slogans..

by shinner Wed Aug 18, 2004 13:20

Given that it costs about 8,000 quid to educate a student and you only pay 750 I think you are getting a good deal. People on the grant don't pay anything. Yet again protecting the privileged and ignoring those with out, the mantra of USI.

by Eoin Collins - IADT SU Wed Aug 18, 2004 13:09

I was in there yesterday and I have to congratulate everyone who got inside the building. To get so many people actually inside the fortress of education and science was beyond even our own beliefs.

Nobody was forcefully removed from the building as it was, under all circumstances, a peaceful protest. We were not there to get arrested but to highlight the fact that, yet again, the government has increased the reg fee. It started out at roughly E190 in 1995 and is E750. Thats not exactly in line with inflation.

To those out there who say we now have nowhere to go I would like to point out that yesterday 40 students went out and protested, 3 weeks before the start of the academic year. When we go out again there will 1000s of people, all over the country. There is more than one way to protest. We do not have to occupy the building again. We can occupy whole towns and cities instead.

The only way for this campaign to go is up. And up it will. Keep an eye on this space. We have plenty more to do.

Thank you to everyone who supported us yesterday. Especially the lady who stopped as she was passing by and then stayed to get together a petiton, which got over 250 signatures, outside the grounds. This shows that we have the publics support.

by KPK Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:11

Firstly, I think everybody has the right to comment on the actions yesterday.
Secondly, the problem most people have with this action is that it was taken two soon. There was no build up to it, when you use your trump card first you have nowhere else to go. I personally would support occupation but only as part of a series of actions.
The question is "Where do you go from here?" do you think you can occupy the Department again? Of course you cant.
Also I think you are wrong about this being the most successful occupation in years, I seem to remember the front page of the Star two years ago running with the occupation of the Department when the protestors were forcibly removed from the building.

by USI Supporter Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:07

Guys the right wing shit heads on www.politics.ie need to be challenged

They have been saying things like:

* Say it loud and say it proud: students are the scum of the earth

* They should send in the riot police and give them a good leathering. This sort of disgraceful behaviour by a bunch of pampered middle-class pups who should be spending their summers working, immersed in an improving book or touring the museums and art galleries of the country should not go unpunished.

Get them the hell out Minister.

* Just to show them who's boss the government should introduce full economic fees!!!

Challenge them:

by Fergal Scully - UCDSU Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:00 supresident at ucd dot ie

The reasons for yesterdays actions were not the future OECD report (although it is a concern) they were the rising of the registration fee to €750 which represents a 89% increase in 24 months and the woefully inadequet grants students get which have risen by just 2% in the same time period. We timed it to coincide with the leaving cert results for obvious reasons.

We didn't publicise this protest because we wanted to ensure we got in to this building in order to generate as much publicity as possible. This was accomplished as we were on local radio's across the country, tv3 etc..... we also caused quite a stir in the local area.

Now people can knock us if they want but this is the first effective students protest under USI for years and we have managed to unite a group of students from different colleges prone in the past to bickering and infighting.

Yesterday was not perfect but it was a great start to a campaign. Its only just begun so watch this space. I hope the knockers and begrudgers will either join in with it or stop trying to sow divisions. Remember free education at all levels should be everyones goal.

by PKP Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:00

If the minister says fees are not coming in straight away-
If the recommendation is that colleges should seek to maximise their funding through relationships with industry while still maintaining independence-
If the IoT sector gets additional autonomy-
And if the sector gets the additional funding which has been missing for the last four years which appears to fairly likely, the Times talked about 300Million being made available this year alone, will USI have anything on which they can rally thousands of students around?
I have to say I'm not that sure that they will.
Also I feel they badly jumped the gun yesterday and really got nothing from it, the opinion is that they made the wrong move, and made it far to early and I have to say I agree with that.

by crush Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:51

USI have known about this OECD report for a very long time so it should come as no surprise that they are ready for it. My concern is that it is too much too soon. This report is due out pretty soon and if it is as bad for education as we think it will be Ben and Rory will have to really up the ante to levels that USI haven't hit in years.
They will really have something to fight against this year but i suppose it'll get their mind of the USI money troubles.

by occupant Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:44

The point of the protest was to highlight the increase in the registration fee. The OECD report is a separate issue, which requires a separate campaign. We can't be accused of jumping the gun because an unrelated issue hasn't come to a head yet.

by Flavius Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:06

First of all, congratulations to the guys and gals at USI for conceiving and executibg such a major activity this early into the new year. I was at the fence for an hour yesterday, and I can tell you it was the most visual sub-1000 participant event I have ever seen.

The guys simply stormed the building and took offices; banners were unfurled within seconds of being inside, and the building was to all intents and purposes fully taken.

The message being gotten across was very clear and concise; the new president was on hand to talk to everybody from the press, whilst Red Rory rallied the troops on the ground.

Welfare chick was leading chants, whilst Fychan was inside holding discipline together.

Quite frankly, the points that officers sought to make were made effectively, media interest was overall good for what I assume was an internally embargoed story, and the effect of totally taking over the admin building at the department will be significant.

In terms of how the campaign can be escalated; Archibald apparently spoke at the end of the occupation to the effect that 'our campaign is not effective until we see the power of thousands of students on the street', and he's right.

One thing was very clear yesterday; the alliance of Hearne and Archibald may be inherently unstable, but it's working well in the interests of a radically and intellectually stimulated union,

USI, with recently uncharacteristic style and panache, captured the imagination of senior officers yesterday; it's back on its feet, and long may it continue.

by G Tue Aug 17, 2004 20:29

While every single one of the reasons presented by UCDSU is a valid point for concern- cornering yourselves off before the report, with nowhere left to go, is jumping the gun. The only progressive step that can be taken after this is hostages and/or suicide bombings...

The protest has been very low key- I wouldn't have known about it had it not been on a local discussion board, presented by someone who is a good friend of a traditional USI activist. What "exactly", and notice I emphasise the word exactly, is the purpose and desired outcome of this protest? Scully's concerns, as previously stated, are all valid- yet are presented in a cobbled together fashion which only has the appearance of trying to justify yet another excuse to be "radical"

by xviii century mind Tue Aug 17, 2004 19:04

watercolours, etchings, perhaps even some silver bromide prints?

by Conor Flavin - UCCSU Tue Aug 17, 2004 18:38 021-4902181

Well done all who took place in the occupation today. We are behind ye all the way. Its a shame we couldnt be up there with ye.
Take care,
Conor.

by jeff Tue Aug 17, 2004 17:35

the sunday indo will accuse these students of terrorism, paedophilia, and devil worship, with the extra blubbering sobbing tones of their alleged links to the IRA and Hamas.

However, there will be a few extra writers besides Gene Kerrigan that will support them-since the council elections results, McCreevyite, monetarist rethoric is not so trendy, even in the so called trendy bars.

by KPK Tue Aug 17, 2004 17:31

don't know what ur on about, but what about the fact that you have nowhere left to go now that you have done this.

by brenners watch Tue Aug 17, 2004 17:26

brenners

by KPK. Tue Aug 17, 2004 17:18

Taking this action 3 weeks before the publication is bordering on he ridiculous. A campaign is a linked serious of actions, they use this tactic over an 80euro increase, where do you go when the report is launched. Makes me think that those at the top of USI are not that politically aware. They have made a serious mistake.

by Student activist Tue Aug 17, 2004 17:09

About 30-40 students are taking part in a very noisy and vocal occupation of the Department of Education, Marlborough Street. About six rooms are taken by the students from a wide range of colleges around Ireland. From the street it looks like the entire building is under student control with banners hanging out of windows on both sides of the building on the second and third floors.

About 15 students are also in the grounds of the Department and the Gardaí are standing around scratching their heads, looking completely like they've lost control.

Media and supporters are gathering on the outside and passers by are generally supportive and amused by the situation. In visual terms it is one of the best student occupations in a very long time. Rather than a small band of USI and DIT student union officers occupying just one room in a department, this occupation is far broader with larger numbers involved from across the country. There are students involved from Limerick IT, GMIT and DLIADT as well as the larger colleges.

by Starstruck - UCD Left/Grassroots Tue Aug 17, 2004 16:18

The department is located at Marlborough street the top end near the large Eircom building.
Marlborough street runs parallel to OConnell street turn right at the Spire facing towards the north end if OConnell Street then left when you rach Talbot Street.
Good luck to all involved