Why did Mary Harney give George Bush Irish Citizens' Information?

by Brian Scanlan Tue Apr 29, 2003 13:49 singer at redbrick dot dcu dot ie

The Irish Times use ServerVault? For what, exactly? I worked in The Irish Times running their servers, and I don't recall any relationship with ServerVault at the time. Google returns nothing on this allegation as well. A bit of evidence would be appreciated, it's interesting if true.

Secondly, there's no proof that ServerVault have any Irish citizens information - Certainly they are serving out the website, but it's quite a leap to make that since they are serving out the website, they are automatically hosting the social welfare databases. Again, no evidence was presented for this claim (aside from a fantastic leap of logic).

And is it actually true that the Carlyle Group lads were in Washington on Sept. 11th? I've heard this claim a few times, again I'm appealing for a smidgen of evidence for this claim.

And lastly, it is amazing to claim that ServerVault in Ireland is hosting the USA's DoD information. I would find it amazing that a country with a massive army would choose to host security related information in a data centre where they have no military presence surrounding or even with authority anywhere near the data centre.

This article is nothing more than fantastic wild claims, it seems.

by j Tue Apr 29, 2003 18:14

Let me first say that I get bored by spurious/paranoid/comspiratorial claims, whatever they might be. I am intrigued though, that you would immediately step to defend the name of these organisations. Are you in Public Relations Brian?

Many spurious claims [WMDs/Dail Protests/Mayday etc] have been made in Irish Newspapers including the broadshit one you diligently worked for. Sometimes though it's what is left unsaid which is most telling. I believe for instance that the Sunday Business Post subeditors who deleted the name of The Carlyle Group [calling it, confusingly "Carlyle", as in a Person] in their perplexing Front Page special on Greg Palast last Sunday, did so out of human error, and not because they belong to a US-led secret society based in southside dublin.

So here's some proof that you were "unable to find" [are you a journalist as well BTW?]

1. The companies mentioned have more than webhosting contracts with the Servervault/Carlyle Group. If you had been present at any of the meetings of the US-Ireland "Business" Summits you would be aware of the pivotal role US Govt.-endorsed companies play in the inward investment to Ireland, and their advisory capacity to the Irish govt. Coincidentally, most US-Govt endorsed/owned/advised companies working out of Ireland have direct shareholder links to the Bush Adminstration/Carlyle Group.EMC/XACP/MCI-Worldcom/Raytheon/Intel & Servervault. Example: Who is the the Chairman of EMC Corp? - The US Ambassador to Ireland, Mr. Richard Egan:
http://boston.internet.com/news/article.php/771141
http://www.opensecrets.org/bush/ambassadors/egan.asp

2. Hotpress, Dublin Daily, Online.ie are all backed by a US-Irish investment fund which includes the Carlyle Group. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows anything about international business relations. The same fund is heavily invested in N.I. and has pseudorepublican [Irish that is] tendencies.

3. Where were the Carlyle directors & investors on Sept 11th - is this another "fantastic & wild claim" as you say - or is this also common knowledge which just hasn't reached your salubrious suburb yet?
http://www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,738196,00.html
[i presume, as an avid Times reader and apologist, you will implicitly trust what the observer newspaper had to say?] If not you can search for that holy grail 'smidgeon' of evidence on any of the 5,000 other sites that reported it on September 12th.

4. The idea that Servervault would keep such data backed up in Ireland is not so crazy. Their main centre is in Virginia, near DC, Langley et al and has all the military backup you so eloquently speak about. What are the legal and tax implications for hosting offshore in Ireland - well they're very favourable indeed.
Also, you'll be aware that Servervault, as their competitors do, need to offer a 2nd facility as backup in case something smashed into their VA plant. This backup plant is in Dublin, Ireland. Is it in the phonebook? Does it have an Irish contact? Are there directions on the servervault website? No, no and no.

5. Do I have details of the data storage agreement between the DSCFA & Servervault in Virgina & Dublin? Not Yet - maybe you know someone who could help us?

Now Brian, do please go and find out how Cheney's Halliburton Brown & Root were chosen to advise the Department of Public Enterprise and others on Energy issues, report to the board of Bord Gais and develop ties with ESBi whilst building the Dublin Port Tunnel and Guantanamo Bay. I'm dying to see your undoubted investigative mettle tested.

Alternatively, do you know of the backers of the 4 Seasons Hotel links to the Bush/Armitage/Levitt/etc Carlyle Group and if so, can we have some real fun outing their indirect but undeniably embarassing links to Militant Islamic fundraising groups such as Blessed Relief in Sudan?

Or shall we slip into classic indymedia mode and just bicker away at each other's syntactical warfare?

by Josef Tue Apr 29, 2003 20:17

Spooky. Looks like they onto you!

by Phuq Hedd Tue Apr 29, 2003 23:32

Such as the recently revealed purchasing of voter registration rolls from Mexico by ChoicePoint. In case you've forgotten they're the company that Greg Palast revealed had illegally and fraudulently removed tens of thousands of black people from the eligible voters list in Florida in order to ensure that Bush got elected.

by gan ainm Wed Apr 30, 2003 01:27

After World War II was over there was one clever exhausted GI recuperating on a Southern Pacific Island. What the hell is there to go back to? he asked himself. So he filled out his death cert and sent it home, the widow collected benefits and the man lived happily ever after. There were many clever Jews who hid. There have always been a very few clever people who have hidden.
I was having a nice evening at home watching Cinderella with the little girls when I saw your news item. Now I'm going to have to read it ten more times and add it to my scary stuff file. Then I'm going to reread the complete works of Edgar Rice Burroughs. Then put Orwell's 1984 to memory. Then on to Sophocles, Plato, Shakespeare, and back to the newest translation of the New Testament. After this is done I should be well into retirement. Carry on with your work! You're brilliant and I'm getting more simple minded every day.

by Brian Scanlan Wed Apr 30, 2003 09:05 singer at redbrick dot dcu dot ie

Let me first say that I get bored by spurious/paranoid/comspiratorial claims, whatever they might be. I am intrigued though, that you would immediately step to defend the name of these organisations. Are you in Public Relations Brian?

No, as implied earlier in this thread, I'm "in computers".

Many spurious claims [WMDs/Dail Protests/Mayday etc] have been made in Irish Newspapers including the broadshit one you diligently worked for.

All media is equal, but some are more equal than others. The Irish Times is run by a charitable trust ala The Guardian, and I trust it's editorial content over any other Irish media source. Not that there aren't weak journos working there, and that they frequently get things wrong, but hey.

1. The companies mentioned have more than webhosting contracts with the Servervault/Carlyle Group.

The Irish Times do not - This was what I was questioning, remember? I have no doubt that online.ie and friends are financed by US backers. What is unknown is the extent of the editorial influence by the backers, though who cares really - They're all crap media sources ;)

3. Where were the Carlyle directors & investors on Sept 11th - is this another "fantastic & wild claim" as you say - or is this also common knowledge which just hasn't reached your salubrious suburb yet?

(Sidenote: Aliterative attempts to discredit somebody by implying their class background based on no knowledge of the person other than 4 questions posed only seems fathomable on indymedia).

4. The idea that Servervault would keep such data backed up in Ireland is not so crazy.

The idea that the DoD are storing important information in Ireland is ludicrous. Why Ireland instead of inside a military base? It is nothing more than poorly thought out speculation IMHO.

Their main centre is in Virginia, near DC, Langley et al and has all the military backup you so eloquently speak about.

...which is why their information would be *here* rather than in Ireland. Hell, The Irish Times used to host their website in Exodus in New Jersey - Armed response was a part of the standard contract offered by the data centre. It is unthinkable that the DoD would consider Blanchardstown a good place for their oh-so-important data.

Also, you'll be aware that Servervault, as their competitors do, need to offer a 2nd facility as backup in case something smashed into their VA plant.

Northside Dublin is an infinitely less secure location than an unnamed location deep within a USA army base. I don't even believe for one second that given the USA government possess the largest collection of computers + storage on the planet that they are outsourcing the storage of critical information to some company. No doubt they are putting business their way, but you're deluding yourself with ideas that the DoD are storing secure information in Blanch.

Or shall we slip into classic indymedia mode and just bicker away at each other's syntactical warfare?

Or we could just answer the questions I asked. Let me put them again in one-liner fashion:

1. What relationship do The Irish Times have with ServerVault?

2. What citizens information, other than the publicly available website, is stored in ServerVault?

3. I concede this one. ;)

4. Why do you think that given the USA government, through the NSA, army etc. possess the greatest computing and storage capacity that's ever existed that they would outsource the storage of anything other than trivial hosting of websites out to a data-centre in Dublin?

3/4 of the questions I asked are still totally unanswered, and unfortunately that's core of the story.

by Glen Moran Wed Apr 30, 2003 11:34

Hey, it's not like he called you a cop, that's the more usual argument "winner".

by Eoin Dubsky Wed Apr 30, 2003 18:44

Brian asks: "4. Why do you think that given the USA government, through the NSA, army etc. possess the greatest computing and storage capacity that's ever existed that they would outsource the storage of anything other than trivial hosting of websites out to a data-centre in Dublin?"

It is kinda strange... especially if you consider that Ireland is an independent state, like Qatar is too. Qatar is home to the US Central Command though (when I country relocates the central command of its armed forces to the other side of the world it seems totally absurd to still use titles like "Secretary of DEFENCE" and "Defence Forces"!).

by Aidan Thu May 01, 2003 12:35

At least the boys are in central command.

It's kind of bizarre for the US govt. to leave even a bkp server in Ireland, with denanda security.

I'd need to see more proof before I believed it

by Phuq Hedd Thu May 01, 2003 17:25

There appear to be a couple of concrete claims of this story some of which have more probability of being true than others:
1. ServerVault has a server in Dublin
2. Harney allowed Irish citizen data to be hosted by ServerVault (a US/DoD linked company)
3. Servervault stores backup sensitive data on their Irish servers.

1. and 2. seem very plausible or possible. 3. I'm not so sure about, but given that the data can be encrypted to a level such that only the US govt has the bruteforce power to decrypt it (2048-bit keys) it might be judged to be a reasonable risk in order to achieve geographic distribution of data.

That said, the "story" is unfocussed and lacks anything more than some suggestive evidence. It seems like a good starting point for a story, but unconvincing on its own.

by - Wed Apr 28, 2004 13:02

how many straws it take to break the back of the Nation?
You have undermined our Constitution.
now test your pudding.

how can you have your pudding
if you don't eat your meat?

by PDophile watch Wed Apr 28, 2004 14:38

....of the PDophiles (Is Judge Curtin still a member?)