Joerg haider speaking in Trinity this thursday evening.

by pc Tue Apr 08, 2003 22:30

protest but make sure the debate goes ahead
is there a particular subject?

by Aidan Tue Apr 08, 2003 22:38

Info on Haider
by Dearbhla D. Tue, Apr 8 2003, 9:31pm
Information on Haider and links of interest

Political Agenda
Xenophobic and racist sentiment have permeated Haider’s political career.
Anti-Immigrant Statements
According to Haider, immigration offers no benefits to Austrian society. Rather, immigrants take jobs away from Austrians and bring in crime from Africa, Eastern Europe and elsewhere. His 1999 election campaign poster slogans include: "Stop the foreign infiltration" and "Stop the abuse of asylum." Posters showing Haider and his prime ministerial candidate Thomas Prinzhorn say "Two real Austrians."
Other infamous Haider statements on immigrants include: "The Africans who come here are drug dealers and they seduce our youth,"; "We’ve got the Poles who concentrate on car theft," he claims. "We’ve got the people from the former Yugoslavia who are burglary experts. We’ve got the Turks who are superbly organized in the heroin trade. And we’ve got the Russians who are experts in blackmail and mugging."
In February 1993, Haider and the Freedom Party launched a twelve-point petition campaign for ending foreign immigration and keeping the proportion of non-German speaking children in schools under 30%. Haider predicted he would get at least one million signatories. In what was viewed as a major defeat, the petition was signed by only 417,000, or 7.5% of the population.
During the 1994 election campaign, Haider’s linkage of immigration and unemployment continued, causing the ruling coalition to accuse Haider of manipulating public fears over joblessness. Haider announced to Austrians "we have to stop immigration until unemployment is reduced to under 5 percent," claiming that the unemployment rate was 5.8%. The official unemployment figure at that time was 4.4%.
In 1996, Haider called "The government’s so-called integration policy a disaster. They are ready to open the doors to another 153,000 foreigners who will take school places, training places and flats (apartments)," Haider said. He continued, "When Turkish children demand protection money from our children at the playground, it’s time to say, this is our state," Haider declared.
Haider has continued to wage a xenophobic campaign to expel foreign workers. In March 1997, Haider stated that he wants one third of all foreigners working in Austria to be sent home over the next two years.
According to Haider, "We take the right stand at the right time to save Austria against the dangers coming from outside."
Defending Nazi Policy and Nazis:
According to his critics, despite public disclaimers and overtures, Haider has a public record of defending the policies of Nazi Germany and of justifying individual actions during those years. Haider has utilized terminology reminiscent of the Nazis, announcing, for example in October 1990 a "final solution to the farm question." Upon his election to the leadership of the Freedom Party, Haider rejected comparisons with the German Nazi Party, saying "The Freedom Party is not the descendant of the National Socialist Party. If it were, we would have an absolute majority."
Indeed, Haider first gained international attention in March 1986 during the controversy surrounding the return of Walter Reder, an Austrian born former major in the Nazi SS, who was freed by Italy from a life sentence he was serving for his role in the mass killing of Italian civilians in 1944. For Haider, the controversy was ridiculous, as Reder was "a soldier who had done his duty." Dismissing Reder’s wartime activities, Haider stated: "If you are going to speak about war crimes, you should admit such crimes were committed by all sides."
Haider’s most infamous comment came during a July 1991 debate in the Carinthia provincial parliament, when Haider, then governor, declared: "An orderly employment policy was carried out in the Third Reich, which the government in Vienna cannot manage." In face of a national and international uproar, Haider apologized for his remarks, but said "What I said was a statement of fact: that in the Third Reich a large number of workplaces were created through an intensive employment policy and unemployment was thereby eliminated." Haider, of course, did not mention to particulars of Nazi labor policy, including military buildup, slave labor, and concentration camps. Recenly, Haider defended his 1991 statement, claiming be was referring to Nazi policy between 1933 and 1936.
In May 1992, while the government was embroiled in a scandal involving a provincial government’s decision to honor a gathering of Wafen SS veterans, Haider defended the decision. Haider instead accused the Interior Minister in Parliament of engaging in "primitive attacks" on "respectable" war veterans, while turning a blind eye to immigrant perpetrated crime.
More recently, Haider spoke out against the Austrian government’s plans to compensate 30,000 Austrian victims of Nazi rule, including Jews, Communists and homosexuals, claiming that Austrian victims of the allies, such as civilians who fled Austria’s occupation by US, Soviet, French and British troops, should also be compensated. As he told an elderly Austrian audience in April 1995, "It is not fair if all the money from the tax coffers goes to Israel." However, when the Parliament voted in June to set up a $50 million compensation fund, Haider voted in its favor. Still insisting on the need for compensation for victims of the allies, Haider explained, "But we do not intend to be petty. Even though you will not join us to widen the scope of the fund we will not vote against the bill. We too want to draw a line under a chapter we are also responsible for."
In May 1995, the Freedom Party was the only major Austrian political party absent from ceremonies at Mauthausen death camp marking the 50th anniversary of the liberation of the liberation of the camp. Just before the anniversary, Haider had referred to Mauthausen as a "punishment camp," implying that those interred there were criminals.
While addressing the reunion of Waffen-SS veterans, Haider declared that the reason people opposed them was "simply that in this world there are decent people who have character and who have stuck to their beliefs through the strongest headwinds and who remained true to their convictions until today." Haider’s appearance at the ceremony was unknown until days before amateur videotape of the gathering was broadcast on German television in December 1995.
Following these revelations, Haider defended his appearance at the event, saying: "The Waffen SS was a part of the Wehrmacht and hence it deserves all the honor and respect of the army in public life." "Everything I said in that video was completely acceptable." "I participated in this event and I don’t see any reason not to. While I reject National Socialism, I certainly do not approve of the wholesale disparagement of the older war generation. I stand by this generation and I fight against the way it is disparaged." Haider claimed he did not know the Waffen SS had been branded a criminal organization by the post-war Nuremberg war crimes tribunal, adding: "It doesn’t interest me in the least."
In December 1995, after viewing the video which captured Haider addressing and mingling with former SS officers, Austrian public prosecutors launched a criminal investigation into Haider’s comments and speech on the basis of the law against reviving Nazism. Following the investigation by the public prosecutor’s offices, the Austrian ministry of justice announced that it was to drop the proceedings because of insufficient grounds.
During a parliamentary debate in July 1998 on a proposed new law requiring applicants for Austrian citizenship to prove knowledge of German, Franz Larfer, an MP of the Freedom Party, used the word Umvolkung. This term was used by the Nazis to define the forced change of the ethnic composition of a population by immigration or compulsory transfer. This happened in Eastern Europe during the Nazi-period leading consequently to the annihilation of the inhabitants. The term is comparable to the expression ethnic cleansing.
In reaction to the use of this expression, members of the Austrian parliament booed and shouted and the session had to be interrupted. After Heinz Fischer, the president of the Austrian parliament, explained to Larfer the meaning of this word, Larfer returned to the microphone apologizing for applying it. As the media reported extensively on this incident, Haider defended Laufer’s use of this term, and reiterated in a press conference the following day that his colleague was right in using this expression, explaining that the government applying a liberal immigration policy allows for extensive "foreign infiltration," which subsequently leads to Umvolkung (dilution of pure 'race')

Links
http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/acta18.htm

add your comments

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COMMENTS
Protests in London at Haider's visit
by DD Tue, Apr 8 2003, 9:36pm

Haider visit infuriates anti-Nazi protesters

Owen Bowcott
Friday June 28, 2002
The Guardian

Anti-Nazi demonstrators yesterday protested outside a central London hotel where Austria's far right politician Jorg Haider hosted a tourism conference to launch an airline route between Britain and his powerbase in Carinthia.
Demands by a Labour MEP that Mr Haider be banned, on grounds that his xenophobic views and description of Waffen SS veterans as being of "good character" would damage race relations, had earlier been dismissed by the Home Office.

But Ryanair, the budget airline which will run the service between London Stansted and Klagenfurt, the provincial capital of Carinthia in southern Austria, shunned the conference at the Royal Horseguards hotel, Westminster.

Mr Haider stood down from leadership of the far right Freedom Party (FPO) two years ago in the face of European diplomatic protest about his inclusion in the Austrian government. However, he remains the governor of Carinthia.

After the FPO's electoral breakthrough in early 2000 Britain backed other EU states in objecting to Mr Haider's role. Robin Cook, then foreign secretary, expressed "deep distaste" over Mr Haider's role in government. Ambassadorial ties were downgraded.

The EU's sanctions were lifted in September that year after a report concluded that the new coalition was committed to "European values".

Yesterday the Labour MEP Glyn Ford appealed to David Blunkett, the home secretary, to stop Mr Haider arriving in Britain. "Jorg Haider's extreme views are a potential danger to public order and public security. We must exercise our legal right to make him stay at home. Letting Haider in sends a signal to the resurgent far right in Europe that they will be given a place at the table."

Mr Ford, a treasurer of the Anti-Nazi League, added: "Haider's call for a foreigner free Austria flies in the face of the fundamental principles on which the EU is founded."

The Anti-Nazi League, which organised the demonstration, described Mr Haider as a "virulent racist" who "advocates apartheid in Austria's schools".

The Foreign Office said it had no plans to ban Mr Haider from Britain.

by Dearbhla Tue Apr 08, 2003 22:42

Haider rhetoric 'trivialises' Nazism
Another! link...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,478352,00.html

by RUC riot squad leather joy boys Tue Apr 08, 2003 22:43

I am greatly admiring Haider's love of ze riding briches, horse whips and riding boots. The sterness, and firmness of his commands, 'we have vays of making you talk'. His love of special campz, of beating ze wimin wiz ze batonz, unt pulling zem by zeir hair. I am loving ze pearly white young boyz, we have ze secret initiation ceremonies you know, where we introduce ze young boyz to our nazi wayz.Ze stern, firm wayz, tell me what to do, one more time, I like it when you give me commandtz, mein fuhrer Hugh odd bored.

by Dearbhla Tue Apr 08, 2003 22:47

In reply to pc- here is th theme of the debate. I don't agree he should be allowed to speak.

From the phil society website:

Thursday 10th April 2003 - Week 2, TT
The Inaugural Meeting of the 318th Session

The President, Mr. Roger Middleton, will deliver a paper entitled "Born in the U.S. of E.", exploring a new world order and a peaceful future for our children. Amongst the respondents are Jorg Haider, leader of the Austrian Freedom Party and bogeyman of the European Left.

This meeting will likely fill up quickly, so get to the GMB well before 7:30pm.

To be followed by a drinks reception and a free party.

by More info DD Tue Apr 08, 2003 22:54

Only phil soc. members and guests may attend (as far as i can remember) Any phil soc. anti-fascists interested in inviting/bringing like-minded guests along?!
However, anyone can protest directly outside - and perhaps even inside the building-Graduate memorial hall.

by Bomb scares 'r' us Tue Apr 08, 2003 22:56

Haider is your typical, golden boy nazi. He likes to play golf, acquire the lastest and best in fine furnishings, cars and clothes. He is a snob, one who looks down on other races, classes and countries. Who believes strongly in many of Adolfs discredited illogical Germanic occult myths, about white aryan supremacy etc. Jessie Owens proved Hitler wrong in the 1930s olympics. Haider thinks he can spout the same crap as Hitler, here in Ireland.

by Avi H. Tue Apr 08, 2003 23:44

Are you so-called anti-fascists also against the grotesque Jew-bashing that goes on on this site, or is that an optional extra?

by Message from earth Wed Apr 09, 2003 00:53

You (deliberately) confuse opposition to the Israeli Governments extermination of the Palestinians as 'Jew Bashing' many jews oppose this murderous campaign.

by Avi H. Wed Apr 09, 2003 02:32

When I say 'Jew Bashing', I do not mean any criticism of Israel. I am referring to the very common racist insults using terms such as 'Zionazi' or things like this:

'FUCK THE JEWS
by jew hater Tue, Apr 8 2003, 2:24pm

THE JEWS PROBABLY WOULDN'T SIT WITH THE SAND NIGGER'

which was posted yesterday. Here is the link to it: http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=41397&start=50

by Avi H. Wed Apr 09, 2003 02:35

The Israeli government is not, as you put it, 'exterminating' the Palestinians. That suggests a campaign of genocide. Believe me, if that were really underway, there wouldn't be many Palestinians left, as the IDF is extremely powerful. Therefore, it is not borne out by the facts.

by Avi H. Wed Apr 09, 2003 02:41

I just wonder whether if someone has posted something in similar terms to the above, namely
F*** the Muslims or F*** all Catholics, people would have protested. However, not a single other contributor has protested against this grossly offensive racist insult to people of the Jewish faith. That suggests - by means of logical inference - that there is a strong undercurrent of anti-Semitism among contributors to this site.

by Aunty Avi Wed Apr 09, 2003 02:47

I think this newswire deserves a better quality troll than Avi.

by refusenik Jew Wed Apr 09, 2003 08:15

Those that spout anti semitic views are easily identified, as racists and nazis, but being anti-israel's unfair treatment of their palestinian peoples is not the same as being anti-jew. I think Israel's unfair treatment of their palestinian citizens, shows Jews in a bad light to the whole world, but we have to remember that Israel does not represent Global Jews.

by . Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:02

But we have to remember it is the Israeli and US propaganda machines at work that incite hatred amongst Jews, unfortunately they are made racist and the result is that nearly 50% of Jews in the Middle East believe Palestinians should be wiped out!
Yeah Avi your a bore!

by kokomero Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:19

The best thing that could happen is if nobody went to his talk.

Haider has been consigned to the political wasteland in his own country and ahould be left there to rot in isolation, ideally along with Avi so the two of them could keep each other entertained and leave the rest of us in peace.

by Avi H. Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:29

I have news for you: the term 'Zionazi' is grossly offensive to Jews. Why? 1) Because 6 million Jews (yes, 6 million, imagine that!) were murdered by Nazis. 2) Because most Jews are Zionists (polling between 90-95%) 3) Because Zionism is about the return of Jews to their ancestral homeland, regardless of whatever the final borders of that homeland are, where there have been Jews living for thousands of years. 4) Zionazi is a term invented by Palestinians as an insult.

Therefore, there is no need to adopt it, unless you intend the same racist insult.

by kokomero Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:59

Avi,

your incessant bleating about anti-semitism or anti-flavour of the week doesn't convince anybody here and it is certainly no excuse for Israels behaviour.

You do not have a monopoly on being victims of genocide or on grief yet it would appear to anybody visiting our planet from another galaxy that this were the case.

Grow up, look forward and take responsibility for your actions and those of your country.

by Avi H. Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:19

You are a racist.

by Aidan Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:19

Our newswire staff have had a busy few days. We can't keep track of all abuse and every thread.

If you have a complaint contact us, the contact button is on the top menu.

However I suspect you like keeping those comments around so you can scream "Are we not wronged"

by Avi H. Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:52

I contacted you already about this. Nothing was done.

by Avi H. Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:54

Aidan, to impute an improper motive to me for complaining about gross racist abuse is disgraceful, frankly. If you have this attitude, why should anyone believe the editors running this site have anti-racist values?

by kokomero Wed Apr 09, 2003 13:03

So what is racism - and what isn't?

Rod Liddle
Wednesday April 9, 2003
The Guardian

Having first, no doubt, availed themselves of the comparative economic and social indicators for the two countries - such as GDP, infant-mortality statistics, proportion of population having been educated to tertiary level, etc - and mulled over the disparate ethnographical and cultural traits, England's fans felt able to sing, en masse and with some conviction last Wednesday night: "I'd rather be a Paki than a Turk."
To the tune of, just in case you want to try it out, "She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes."

I've heard it sung, with a deliciously subtle variation, many times before. The variation being: "I'd rather be a Paki than a Scouse." Or, on one occasion, "I'd rather be a Paki than a Mick."

I suppose it makes one wonder what they'd sing, these people, when their team plays Pakistan. They'd be a bit lost, wouldn't they? Maybe they'd just sing, "I'd rather be a Paki than a Paki."

Anyway, this was but one shining jewel from their forceful and politically unvarying repertoire, but it is the one that has attracted the opprobrium of the authorities.

And the interesting stuff, for me, are the terms of the undoubtedly justified condemnation. England fans, it has been reported, were guilty of singing "racist and anti-Turkish" songs and chants.

Now; is this not a little confusing? The suggestion seems to be that being anti-Turkish isn't, de facto, racist. It is just, instead, foul and offensive.

If you look at the song I've quoted above, the subtext is quite simple: the Pakistanis are thoroughly awful people but even so, they're better than the Turks who are, really, quite beyond the pale. Upon reflection, this would seem to me to be slightly more "racist" towards the Turks than the Pakistanis, although I would grant you that there's not much in it, and I don't suppose either ethnic grouping would draw much comfort from the words.

What fascinates me is this notion that there are some races about which one can be very rude indeed without being hauled before the courts on a charge of racism.

It is certainly true that one can be spiteful about almost any northern and central European "race" and get away with it - and even be commended. Thus, The Daily Mail can print half a page of anti-French jokes - none of which, unforgivably, was very funny - and a few days later condemn the England fans for dissing Pakistanis.

And then, of course, on the left, it is almost de trop not to be spiteful about the Americans for their alleged greed, ignorance and bellicosity.

The confusion with the Turks presumably arose because they are geographically, and perhaps culturally, at least partly "European", whatever that means. Further, they might be about to join the European Union and although Muslims, they're sort of good Muslims, insofar as such a thing is possible. Civilised chaps, and so on. And not too dark. Look at a Turk under bad lighting and hell, he could be one of us.

But they are, none the less, racially distinct in the truest sense of the idea and a sizeable ethnic minority in Britain - and therefore I am not certain why it should simply be offensive to have a go at them, rather than actually illegal. It is in this tiny discrepancy - perhaps no more than a Freudian slip on the part of subeditors or leader writers - which makes me wonder if, much of the time, the concept of "racism", as opposed to merely foul and in some amorphous way discriminatory behaviour, has any meaning.

This is not to diminish the tribulations suffered by British black and Asian people who have, undoubtedly, suffered discrimination because of the colour of their skin. In fact, it is to emphasise the significance of their suffering because, as I see it, the modern notion of racism has become so devalued, so ubiquitous and broad in its ambit, that much of what, reflexively, we call racism today is simply rudeness - rather than an oppressive social, economic and cultural machine for keeping one or another particular race in a degree of subjugation.

Maybe we need a new name for it, whatever it is, these insults tossed around at nationalities and sub-nationalities. Xenophobia is again too broad a term. Perhaps the England football fans, or Uefa, might help us all out by coming up with something. And then, when cockney supporters sing, "I'd rather be a Paki than a Scouse" we'd know which of the two ethnic minorities has been most egregiously insulted and whether people should go to prison as a result.

More about me and money

The only people I expected to comment on my piece last week about how useless I am with money were my creditors, to be honest. Righteous and angry comments about it not really being a laughing matter. But I was wrong. Oh, how the letters flooded in. And not one from someone to whom I owe money or paperwork. Maybe they've just given up. Or maybe they only read the Telegraph.

It was a mutual outpouring of empathy and grief. There really are other people, then, as inept and cowardly as me when it comes to any form of financial transaction.

Rebecca (I should avoid identifying these hopeless cases too clearly, don't you think, in case their creditors are reading?) summed it up best. She reckoned that the cause was a failure to admit that one was properly grown up. Which is probably true. "I'm 33 years old," she admitted later.

And then there was Anna. "I also have a phobia of opening bank mail," she wrote, "and now that my flatmate has bought a paper shredder the problem's even worse."

Respect, Anna. Even I hadn't thought of a paper shredder. Later in her letter she revealed that she had once rung her bank's call centre in order, as she put it, to reconcile the situation. "But," she added wistfully, "it only seemed to aggravate them."

This is an absolute truth. Actually addressing the problem is almost always more injurious than letting it rumble along untended. Bank people just don't understand.

Jakob, who lives abroad - he's presumably on the run, from sort of everything - said that he never opened bank statements and "my only relationship with ATMs is to hold my breath and punch in the numbers and hope the money comes out". He added: "All this is so immature. It's all right when you're in your 20s, perhaps, but next birthday I'm fifty-fucking-seven!"

Hang on in there, Jake, mate. Things will never get better. They will just get slowly, inexorably, worse; a noose tightened gradually over the decades. Courage and competence in financial matters are unfortunately innate and Jean-Paul Sartre was quite wrong - there is nothing we can do to change ourselves. He should have known, anyway. He was born a windbag and died a windbag.

So thank you all for writing - it has made my visit to the Frome branch of the Inland Revenue next week marginally more palatable, even if the outcome, none the less, will be inconceivably vile.