Defend our Civil Rights

by blisset Tue May 07, 2002 19:02

And what are you going to do when hundreds of 'protesters' who none of us know turn up to have a go at the boys in blue on Thursday?

They surely will as the news is the best ad for a protest I ever saw and there are many many heads who have many many reasons to have a go at the cops. Even the cops have many many pressing reasons to have footage of a 'mob' attacking Pearse Street Cop Shop shown. Be careful out there.

GR to save the day? Playing into their (boys in Blue)hands?

by conor - ucd socialist alternative Tue May 07, 2002 19:09 c_mc_gowan at hotmail dot com

lets not fight fire with fire.for once people see who the real thugs are-lets not mess that up.ive seen the guards do this before,and noone outside the movement believe me.please dont give the garda press office a shovel to dig themselves out with.you know the place will be jammed with press and the guards on their top pr

by wj Tue May 07, 2002 19:18 jayawarw at tcd dot ie

I have always had a lot of respect for the gardai but I have to say that their behaviour was a disgrace at the rts march yesterday. I took part with full trust in them and ended up witness to unecessary and shocking violence on their part.
Maybe it was panic on their part, I'm not sure, but they should have handled things far more calmly. Had they not begun the violence the march would have progressed at a steady pace towards stephens green or perhaps turned back around without trouble to the civic offices as intended.
Its a pity that what was a fun event turned into what it did. My respect for the Gardai has taken a serious blow, i wont be as trusting of them next time.
- WJ

by Myles Tue May 07, 2002 19:25

Darling Joe "Monopolise Resistance" Carolan,
will you let the organizers of the event (RTS)
decide what to do? Or you want to use even this
as an excuse to try to recruit and sell a few copies of the paper. You're sickening!
Congratulations to SWP/GR for the RTE bandwagon jumping.

by Black Cat sub-commandante - Belfast Media Collective Tue May 07, 2002 19:38 belfast_media_collective at hotmail dot com

Here, I even can't see where you get the balls to do that...you are an insult to true people who were there to defend their ideas and not a crap party line dictated from a dark barely marxist ( more a social democrate hell hole)cave. You're sad.
we don't need you to represent ourselves and stop that patronising bullshit about us not being able to talk to the media because hey, we are the media.

Your for the social revolution,
Black Cat

by bill Tue May 07, 2002 19:46

Here, here for the anti-SWP rants. I saw some of the SWP at the party alright. Were they dancing? Were they singing? Bollox they were, they were walking around with their fucking papers complaining to each other that the protest wasn't political enough. That was the point of Monday, just to have a party without SWP screaming into megaphones.

by Patrick Ryan Tue May 07, 2002 20:05

Upon walking home from a weary day wading through a tide of benign spirit, I came across two spitting protesters sharing a cigarette, dishevelled and tired.
The final image of this grim redundant day was that of these two headless mannequins, belly to back, resting against a block of concrete debris as if duality were the doctrine of their perverted race.
These two faithless drones of pathos; devoid of talent; born of the protesting mass whose fabergé lives will someday crack, exposing a rotten core amid the stench of insincerity and the hollow of ignorance.

by Comrade Jim Tue May 07, 2002 20:11

I will be the first to admit that I wasn’t able to make it to RSP, as a member of a political party I was out campaigning. SWP are a parasite feeding off other organisations. You only have to look as far a GR for prove. Its time that we the real revolution excludes them. We are taking 2 steps forward cause and they are pulling us down.

RTS should be reorganized ASAP. And held again before the public loose interest again. Invite all groups related to reform (NO SWP) and even go as far as encouraging the unions involved to give it extra media coverage.

As an act of solidarity with the 12 arrested we must Reclaim the Streets on the day of their trial. Not in one area but multiple site. (see how the Cops handle that) We must disassociate ourselves with SWP and Nobody should demonstrate a Pearse street station on Thursday SWP/GR didn’t organize the event and we must not allow them to hijack it. A New organization needs to be formed "Civil Rights to ALL" or something to that effect to speak on our behalf and organize future events. Our Time is Near. The winds of change are upon us its time to boot out SWP back to England and Reclaim our movements.

There is a need to confront the police but this should be done in a form of a law suite to finance RTS in the coming months. A swell as a mass action out side Pearse street but not organized by SWP.

by nooly - milk liberation front Tue May 07, 2002 22:31 sheehant at eircom dot net

"these two headless mannequins"

i'm confused.....why were they headless? where were their heads? am i the only person completely bogged down in mr ryan's nonsensical wee rhetoric-fest? you can't just bung a load of hysterical adjectives into a sentence and hope it sounds impressive. a few verbs or subjects wouldn't go astray.
what i want to say is, (in all earnestness), what exactly are you trying to say? i've read the post a few times and still cannot find a point.

by Sean D Wed May 08, 2002 01:02

I read Indymedia Ireland to find out about what's going on locally like I read the other Indymedias for global events.
This site is increasingly being pollution with negative bickering.
Could someone please EXPLAIN THE ROLE OF SECTARIANISM in the movement.
All those obsessed with haemorrhaging the movement of everyone who has aspirations of a better world please fuck off.

by Sean O D. Wed May 08, 2002 02:26

The opportunistic, bandwagon-jumping, agent-provocateurs, of the SWP must be known for what they are. Their so-called ideology,-their correct line-, is derived from a few third-rate English academics. And their best-known member, McCann, is a well-paid hack of the capitalist press, who has built a career opposing the armed struggle while attacking Sinn Fein for abandoning it. This is the theory they claim to be so adept in. Enough!

by Leon Icepick Head - 15th International Wed May 08, 2002 03:32

"EXPLAIN THE ROLE OF SECTARIANISM"
The term sectarianism implies a commonality between the S.W.P. and the authors of the anti-S.W.P. postings, sectarianism first meaning sects of the same religion, and later the word is used in a political context.
It is very obvious that a good portion of the anti-S.W.P. ranters do no regard themsleves as part of the same movement as the S.W.P. (rightly so IMHO), in fact they are opposed to both the theory and practise of this organisation, consequently they cannot be accused of sectarianism in criticising, however rabidly, the S.W.P., any more than they could be accused of sectarianism for criticising Fianna Fail.

"Sectarianism", is in my experience, typically a term used to describe a line of argument the user happens to disagree with. If you disagree with what people on this site say about the S.W.P. have the courage of your convictions to argue against them, rather than just dismissing what they are saying as "sectarianism".

by lorna Wed May 08, 2002 10:08

please,please, don't turn the protest into a rampage.........revenge is never, ever street. There doesn't always have to be a vicious circle.

by Confused Wed May 08, 2002 13:25

Are we in worse danger from the SWP of the Gardai. Yes SWPers might ask if you want to buy their paper or want to get involved in the organisation but do they beat you with sticks? Lets be clear about who our enemies are.

by Niall Wed May 08, 2002 13:34

That's true, SWPers don't beat you with sticks yet. But if they got into power...(not that they stand a chance, luckily)

by JD Wed May 08, 2002 14:36

It's funny how GR/SWP came out of the woodwoork. Had nothing to do with the organising this free party yet in it's aftermath who do we see trying to claim credit GR/SWP.

by Confused Wed May 08, 2002 15:18

Is it just cos we is so big? Every other organisation commits the crime of trying to distribute their material. We want to be part of what is going on. If we turn up we are trying to take over, if we don't then we are snobbing the demo.

Whats a large revolutionary socialist party to do?

We need to stop bickering and link arms, work together and all that. I can imagine bickering is the sort of thing the left was busy doing in Germany & Spain in the 30s.

by Everyone Wed May 08, 2002 15:29

Thanks, but NO THANKS. You are the same as FF, FG, etc., same lies, same manipulations. Look at what Joe Carolan did yesterday? How is that different from Bertie Ahern? Propaganda-propaganda-propaganda for your party. That's all you do. We don't like your tricks. Do-you-understand?

by db - individual non-aligned socialist with an anarchistic streak Wed May 08, 2002 15:37

Ok, RTS in Dublin is beaten of the streets of Dublin, yet you are attacking the SWP more than you are attacking the state? What the fuck!?!?!

I'm a great fan of Indymedia because activists on the left, whatever shade of red or black or green produce it. Around the world it is brilliant, here it is a rump of the old 1980's attitude of attack anything other than us. Look at Indymedia in other areas of the world, the Palestinian IMC got onto the frontpage of the G2 segment of the Guardian for its brilliant reporting, the Ireland IMC is a joke.

Most replies to articles are regarding the SWP, where the fuck is any analysis of LePen, or on how to stand up to the Irish state, its no-where, instead “we have to continue the revolution by shedding the SWP”. That is the most abstract argument I have ever heard.

Good on globalise resistance in targeting the real enemies of our movement, the fuckers who dragged us and beat us from Dame Street. I'm not a fan of the SWP but at least they don’t bloody come to a protest and beat the shit out of you.

Anyone that comes to this website for the first time will look through at come to the conclusion that I am coming to, which is “don’t waste your time with the left in Ireland!”

WISE THE FUCK UP!!!! BEFORE WE ARE SMASHED!!!!

by Confused, less so now Wed May 08, 2002 15:46

Thanks db. Agreed, lets get back to fighting fascism!

by Everyone Wed May 08, 2002 15:54

In Palestine they don't have the SWP.
When they (SWP/GR) leave us alone, Indymedia.ie
is a great website.

by The Man With the IcePick - NKVD Wed May 08, 2002 17:10

Ach S.W.P.'ers have the guts to come out an defend your actions and politics rather than pretending this is "sectarianism", "in-fighting", and we should all hold hands and love one another etc... . People have genuine criticisms of the S.W.P. and I for one, are very glad that there is a public forum in which they can express them, at least then those folk (anti-S.W.P. ranters) can realise how widespread that feeling is, and then more importantly organise themselves to do stuff (or get more people organising themselves) - just like R.T.S., for example, so we can have a creative democratic oppositional movement in this country - rather than people being conned into joining Leninoid parties and leaving totally alienated after six months.
The damage done to the building of such a movement by sign the petition/wave the placard/follow the leader bollox is apparent.
But don't just complain - Organise!

by paul cummins Wed May 08, 2002 21:12 chewy at redbrick dot dcu dot ie

can we have a clear brief statement on whether the peaceful protesters like myself should turn up on thursday from the rts only

by Ray Thu May 09, 2002 09:08

RTS have said (in a statement on here) that they don't like the way the protest was called, but now that its on they want people to turn up and support it.

by Jim - None Thu May 09, 2002 10:24

I support the ideas of RTS.
I disagree strongly with the type of brutality the Gardai meted out last week.
I would like to come along with my girlfriend and baby to enjoy a peacefull protest.
After sieving through the bickering nonsense that appears on this page I see mention of agent provocateurs (sp?) a few times.
Now I know that the Gardai overreacted last week but can someone assure me that there will be no riling up of crowds or deliberate provocation of police this evening or should I stay at home?
Jim

by Ray Thu May 09, 2002 11:05

Nothing can be guaranteed but it looks like everyone will be on their best behaviour.

by Phillip B. - NONE (thank fuck) Thu May 09, 2002 15:44

Look, the SWP have many faults as discussed
However, saying they are the same as FG, FF or even Labour is way over the top

I saw how Joe dominated press talks, but from accounts of folk there (not belonging to RTS or SWP) RTS didn't have their act together to take the Mike and talk the talk

If you don't like SWP taking the limelight then get better organised than them

they've got alot of things very wrong, but they know how to handle an event

Police Brutality is an issue which goes far beyond Monday, but Monday brought it into the media

lets use this chance to show the cops what we think of them

be carefull

Phill

by No shame Thu May 09, 2002 16:00

So now people from Reclaim the Streets are bunch of morons and we should all thank Joe Carolan for taking over?

by rick Thu May 09, 2002 16:12 rick at yahoo dot com

Lets learn from history please ! Lets rid ourselves of this pointless bickering and sectarianism that has cost us so much in the past. We must be united. This is the only we will succeed anything. We may have problems with the SWP but they are on our side we need their numbers we need thei people. The time for debate can come we have control. First we have to reclaim what is ours. We can only do this TOGETHER! let us not fall victim to the classic divide and conquer scenario which has always fucked us up before . ONE PEOPLE !

by anto - mine Thu May 09, 2002 16:21 anto68 at hotmail dot com

lets not all become egotistical bastards vying for the limelight. Who cares who got the cred for the press conference . The min thing was that it was positive for us . Lets build on this and stay together

by rose Thu May 09, 2002 16:29

you don't get it. there is no divide and conquer. SWP, FF, FG, what's the difference? SWP call themselves anti-capitalist but that's a lie. they just want to hijack our freedom of speech and build their dirty sect. swp leave indymedia alone and we will be in peace and happy.
please do us this favour. you have your stupid tabloid for your propaganda.

by Ciaran O hUltachain - Unaligned Egalitarian Fri May 10, 2002 13:22 ciaranohul at eircom dot net Phibsboro, Dublin 7 0877699086

I am an unaligned egalitarain who has been actively involved in a whole range of progressive social movements in Ireland for more than five years now. I have worked on lesbian & gay, community media, anti-racist, environmental, socialist and anti-capitalist campaigns. As a mature student studying Sociology & Politics, I am developing a solid conceptual framework that underpins my activism.

If we have any hope of achieving a more fair, equal & sustainable world, the level of sectarianism of the left in Ireland, that is all too evident on Indymedia must be addressed. Monday's RTS party was a glorious day, for the most part, until the unsightly violence of the patriachal, capitalist state erupted at the end of it. The RTS party was a example of the fluidity of the Irish left & was a fine indicator of what we can achieve when we attempt to work in unison.

I am not a member of SWP, but I do have a lot of respect for the determination & commitment of most of the people in the party and I regularly support the events that they organise. Marx offered an important critique of capitalism, without holding a monopoly on the truth. I have no intention of joining SWP but I will continue to support their activism when it furthers the egalitarian aims of the broad left.

Globalise Resistance never claimed to have organised RTS, the media misrepresented them as the non-hierarchical nature of RTS was too complex for a 2 minute sound-bite. It is important that as a movement, we seized the opportunity after Monday's appaling police violence. RTS, the anarchists & environmentalists did not feel it was approppriate for them to do so. I freely admit that I have summer exams & I don't have the time to work as a 24 hour a day activist either.

Joe Carolan & Grace Lally of Globalise Resistance should be congratulated for organising such a successful counter demonstration on Thursday against police brutality. They had the sense not to organise a narrow SWP rally that preached to the converted. They included a broad spectrum of mainstream political, civil and academic speakers and ensured the demonstration passed off peacefully.

RTS was an important day of celebration & social interaction. The brutal actions of the gardai radicalised a far greater number of people than RTS could ever have reached. It is unfortunate that many innocent people were injured in the process. Let us make a concerted effort to minimise the begrudery - sectarianism & applaud ourselves for reclaiming the initiative. It has been an empowering week for anyone remotely progressive in Irish society. Please enjoy that space and sense of achievemetn for a moment, before we descend into bickering over future tactics.