Urgently needed: Civil disobedience, citizens disarmament

by Clar Ni Mhorain Mon Feb 24, 2003 01:55

Yes we need more effective protest, but lets face it, non-violent civil disobedience and citizens disarmament at Shannon is going to be tough with the army and the gardai on every side. The potential for conflict is a serious risk. Nonviolence and safety workshops are of little use to the March 1st demonstraters after March 1st! We need action but not any kind of action. Well organised, well thought out, planned action is needed to honour Eoin's Mary's and the Five's protests and so that there is no bad reflection on them in their upcoming court cases.

by Yawn Mon Feb 24, 2003 02:16

whatever we do it won't be to 'honour' Eoin Dubsky or anyone else thats for sure! Holy God i feel weak in his shadow - imagine a workshop from him. badly needed yeah. we await his return with bated breath. 'direct action workshops'!! yeah, learn to swing that paintbrush! i'd rather march with 100,000 anyday. yeah.

by John Mon Feb 24, 2003 02:21

100,000 Irish people "marched here and there" through the streets of Dublin to voice their disgust and oppostion to the war.

Thats the sort of pomp that scares governments, and stopped the war in Vietnam.

Without mass demonstrations such as these individual direct actions are pretty futile and forgetable, and those undertaking them are just .... well, just a few people.

You'll make a great politician someday sonny - if you're not careful.

by Black Flag Mon Feb 24, 2003 02:57

Is this pompous/arrogant posting actually written by Eoin Dubsky, or is it a troll? How big is this guys head?

by Kevin-Scott Mon Feb 24, 2003 05:20

Click on Eoin's link. The true author is revealed.

by path in exile Mon Feb 24, 2003 08:09

I say good on ya Dubsky. When it comes down to the crunch, every 'activist' (I really hate that term but..) has to ask themselves: how much do I really believe in what I am campaigning for here? Am I really against this war? What as an individual am I willing to do about it? Am I serious about my convictions or am I just getting involved in it in a half arsed manner, as part of the new fad that suddenly a lot of people are interested in? If my action saves a hundred innocent lives, am I happy to possibly have a record under some bullshit offence against the public order act?

How easy it is for some people to sit back and say these actions are 'illegal', 'damaging the real campaigns', etc etc.

I wonder how we'd feel if the situation was reversed. If people in a far off country had the chance to disable a bomb or a plane before it flew over the suburbs of Dublin and dropped it on schools, hospitals, marketplaces (because, wait for it, thats exactly whats going to happen in Iraq), I'll bet we'd be begging for them to do it.

But lets say Dublin, or anywhere for that matter, gets blown to pieces. You're picking your child's body from the rubble of your house. You're watching your girlfriend die in front of you. Your parents are dead in their bed, their limbs horribly crushed and contorted. Those people in that far off country are horrified (we hope), but they tried their best with marches and rhetoric and megaphones and safe, sanctioned protests that ultimately did FUCK ALL to stop what was happening on their own doorstep.

Each broken plane is a life saved. Each invasion of that runway stops a plane landing and refuelling. Each occupation of that Warport turns the heat up on the State for their complicity in war.

Nobody gave a flying fuck when the cities of Afghanistan were being ground into dust (without any sort of UN resolution giving the US permission to do so) and US planes were refuelling in Shannon. Lets STOP Ireland being used as a base. Lets set an example for other countries to follow.

I think it was Sam Smyth, but dont quote me on that, said in The Independent that we can either have prosperity or purity, not both, referring to the political - and economic - fall out that would happen between us and the USA if we kick them out of Shannon.

Are we talking about whatever soul is left in the country here? Are you asking me to choose between 80s style unemployment, or 24 hr traffic jams in my city, expensive food and rent, long overtime and never seeing my friends & family, cars everywhere, boring service industry jobs, and blood on my fucking hands?

by Schwanz Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:52

Dubsky why don,t you do everyone a favour and become Ireland's first suicide bomber.Think, you might even do more damage than a paintbrush and you could even get your picture in the paper again.

by Inspector Morse Mon Feb 24, 2003 13:34

A spot of textual analysis (use of capitals, quotes, etc.) has me wondering if 'Path in Exile' above is actually Dubsky. Never!

by Anonymous Mon Feb 24, 2003 14:22

Fair fuks to ya Eoin is all I can say. I think you are doing an unreal job.

The cynicism thats been expressed here scares me.

First of all, it is Eoin who wrote the piece as its linked on his home page:-

http://redbrick.dcu.ie/~slack/

Even if that link wasn't there you should be able to tell by the passion with which he writes.

Secondly, I do not see how people claim he is being pompus??

He is simply writing with passion and stronly expressing his opinion.

In a democracy, and in line with the virtues of freedom, surely is he not "entitled" to do this??

Everyone else is equally entitled to disagree with him if they wish and to express this. But calling him pompus I believe is not to express an opinion on the subject matter that he is trying to talk about, but rather to express an opinion on him personally that decries his freedom to express an opinion and as such to decry the whole concept of freedom & democracy!

Anyhow, lets hope this "bloody" war does not happen.

by macey Mon Feb 24, 2003 14:22

shit!!!
look at these posts...
bitter childish whingers.....
if u werent sitting in front of a computer in the wee hours of the morning trying to b clever you might just about manage to get off your arse and do somthing CONSTRUCTIVE..
we are the people we have the power we just have to remain strong and unified,

by Anonymous Mon Feb 24, 2003 14:29

My apolagies to the people I directed my above statement at.

I just noticed the title of his piece. I did not realize he has used this word first.

So now the comments were directed at the "actual" subject matter he was addressing so I think people were perfectly to express this.

My apolagies to those concerned and I retract my above statment.

Nevertheless I can see the point he is making and though an "activist" supporter myself I do not take offense at his point.

by conor (wsm personal capacity) Mon Feb 24, 2003 15:41 krossphader at hotmail dot com

John: Thats the sort of pomp that scares governments, and stopped the war in Vietnam.

NO IT WASN'T.

The Vietnam war was stopped because the Americans were getting beaten militarily by the North Vietnamese. The anti war demos were a FACTOR in it but the military defeat was the main one.

This is not to imply that I favour military support for Saddam just that we're clear that marching alone was NOT what stopped the Vietnam war

john: Without mass demonstrations such as these individual direct actions are pretty futile and forgetable, and those undertaking them are just .... well, just a few people.

No objection there - mass demos are needed and MASS direct action so lets go to it. By the way I have no objection to individual direct actions and I think Eoin deserves massive praise for having the courage to take action and keep shannon on the agenda.

Path in Exile: If my action saves a hundred innocent lives, am I happy to possibly have a record under some bullshit offence against the public order act?

all hail the Path - telling it like it is !

wonder
by Inspector Morse Mon, Feb 24 2003, 12:34pm

nope its The PATH ignorant inspector

by Sylvia Pankhurst - Anarchist Federation Mon Feb 24, 2003 15:57

Aye Connor but the desertions and mutiny of U.S. troops had a serious impact on American ability to prosecute that war (that said I do think they happened after the decision to pull out ground troops - which was down to economic cost inflicted by Soviet bloc).

by path in exile Mon Feb 24, 2003 18:25

Me and Dubsky are separate people, Inspector Morse. My old website is down but hopeully it will be back up in the next couple of months when I sort out some FTP access again. So then you can do more of your investigative work.

by Ant Mon Feb 24, 2003 22:07 ant at unison dot ie

Nice one, Eoin.

Unlike the war waged by Russia against the Chechens, we in Ireland are actually in a position to do something about the escalation of the war against Iraq. I'd protest outside the Russian embassy but I know that such an expression of opinion would achieve nothing even if there were 100,000 of us. However, while refuelling takes place in Shannon, we all have the opportunity to be a spanner in the works of the US build-up in the Gulf. Anyone who doesn't act needs to do some serious thinking as to how genuine their opposition to this war is.

Is it just some sort of half-hearted aspiration along the lines of "I hope that thousands don't die in Iraq so I'll take a stroll down the street to express my view and then nicely write to my TD and patiently wait a couple of months to see if he and his mates decide to make the tough decision which will (probably) alienate our American leaders/friends"?
By which time it will already be too late and the war will be over.

The legal/constitutional process may work but it'll be too late if/when it succeeds. It's just not designed to readily facilitate the will of the people. It's time that people started to realise how ineffectual representational democracy is proving to be in the current context.

Eoin deserves credit for having the courage of his convictions and I congratulate him for both his actions and his willingness to take flak in order to stir "activists" from their complacency.

And ditto everything [the path] has said. He says it all so much better than I could. {Looking forward to seeing your site, zine and bike back in action on your return to Dublin.}

by CAREFUL NOW Thu Feb 27, 2003 03:02

IF ye really are serious about pulling this off then don't do ti half -assed.

Either do a blockade or whatever. have OPTIONS.
Be aware of what it's like on the ground on the day.

IF the cops are edgy and the fence looks impossible USE ANOTHER OPTION.
DON'T THINK GETTIN YER HEAD BUSTED MAKES YA A HERO WHEN THE OPTION IS THERE TO BLOCKADE EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT GETTING BATONED>

REMEMBER THE COP POSITION, THEY GOT A RIGHT GOIN' OVER FOR THE SECURITY BREACHES AND JUST COS RTS GOT SUM MEEJAH COVERAGE DON@T THINK THEY WOULDN'T BEAT YE OVER THE HEAT TO STOP YE GETTING THRU THE FENCE. SHUR THEY'D SAY "THAT'S *WHY* WE HAVE TO STOP ANARKISTS, KOZ DEY ARE RECKLESS AND IRRESPONSIBLE"

IT'S AN IMPORTANT DAY, AND IT WON'T DO TO HAVE BLINKERS ON. SEE THE PRE-EMPTIVE SPIN IN THE MEDIA, HYPING UP THE VIOLENCE EXPECTED FROM PROTESTORS. THINK HOW THAT WOULD FEED INTO A BATON CHARGE, AND HOW IT WOULD AFFECT EVERYONE.

USE YOUR COP-ON ON THE DAY.
DO WHAT WORKS NOT WHAT BOOSTS YER PRIDE.

GOOD LUCK.

by hugh Tue Apr 01, 2003 01:51

dubsky might be a tit but he does have a point