Council Votes Against Bin Charges

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Tue Dec 24, 2002 03:12 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

'SF, FG and Independent councillors opposed this on the basis that the Estimates had been voted down, no compromise was possible and it was up to the Minister to do his own dirty work. The vote tied and Dermot Lacey cast his vote as Mayor to pass the Charges.'

That last line should be 'Lacey used his vote as Mayor to pass the motion calling for another meeting and it will be held on the 29th'.

Sorry, it's 2am and I'm shattered.

by Mr anti Bin Tax Tue Dec 24, 2002 04:05

This vote is obviously encouraging. But people should be warned, do not trust these bourgeois polititians, SF, FG and Labour have stabbed workers in the back before on many occasions, all these parties have voted for bin tax on previous occasions and all would be prepared to do a deal in order to save the council from being dissolved. This I am sure of.

Where the battle against the bin tax will be won is not in the council chambers but in the communities. The way to beat the tax is through building a mass non payment campaign, workers should not trust these bourgeois councillors as far as you can throw them.

by MG Tue Dec 24, 2002 08:21

I'm not trying to start an argument here. I really don't understand why the Greens support this tax. Surely they don't believe householders should be punished for the Government's failure to provide adequate recycling facilities. Also, under the polluter pays principle, shouldn't it be the companies which produce packaging who are forced to pay for its disposal, not the public who have no choice but to buy this packaging?

by FOD Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:54

Because they are middle class idiots more intrested in a whale than the working class?

by Derek Tue Dec 24, 2002 11:58

Since SF voted for service charges in Sligo and some of their councillors went sick when the charges were passed last year in Dublin, will they continue to oppose the charges at the next meeting or accept a "deal",we will all be interested in finding out.

by James Tue Dec 24, 2002 13:30

I am very glad the Council in Dublin voted down the charges. But I've seen this in Cork before, crisis meetings votes, deadlines , threats of suspension and then councillors step forward to save democracy (the Council) by voting in this anti-democratic charge. Only mass non payment can kill the charges. Politicians regularly sellout.

Justin I spent a long time in SF believing in the sincerity of the partys opposition to charges but your behaviour in Sligo was disgraceful. I hope we are not in for a repeat in Dublin. Why is it okay to impose charges in Sligo and not in Dublin, they are either unjust or not?

by Mr anti Bin Tax Tue Dec 24, 2002 14:55

If the councillors had any backbone they would defy the dissilution order. By continuing to meet and make an appeal to the council workers to defy any decision made by the commissioner as well as fully backing mass nonpayment of the bin tax.

by Labour Hater Tue Dec 24, 2002 15:32

"Labour councillors proposed from the floor that another meeting of the Council take place before the 29th of December (Midnight on that day being the deadline by which the Estimates must be passed) in the hope that a deal could be thrashed out."

I think the above extract shows that Labour are a fucking disgrace and have no backbone. They are willing to compromise once things heat up. It's a political thing- they are reformist bastrads more concerned with their relationship with FF than their relationship with ordinary people.

I also hate the way some people on the Irish Left have illusions in te Labour party. Why dont they see them for what they are. A bunch of careerists implementing capitalist policies. All accross Europe the SD parties have significantly moved to the right in the past 10-15 years, why is Ireland any different?

Can any Labour member come on here and tell me how they can legitimise their Lord Mayor voting for Bin Tax? what about Tax amnesty? social 'partnership'?

by non-payer Tue Dec 24, 2002 15:35

If Labour and Sinn Féin are so against the bin tax why dont they call for non-payment? SF nominally might do, but they are not seriously involved in the anti-bin tax campaigns outside of where they are challenging for Dáil seats.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Tue Dec 24, 2002 16:08 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Just want to correct a few errors of fact posted by other people.

1. Voting record. SF has the best voting record of any party in opposition to the Bin Charges.

None of our councillors were 'sick' last year, all were present and voted against the Charges. The year before that two Councillors missed the meeting for personal reasons. Their explanations were accepted by the party and it is up to their electorates to accept them or not at the Local Elections in 2004. Interestingly both Councillors have been heavily involved in the campaigns in their areas.

No SF councillors has ever voted for the Bin Charges in Dublin and we have no intention of doing so.

2. Non-payment. I amn't paying my Bin Charge and neither are any other SF people I know. We are supporting the four Finglas residents who have been taken to court over their refusal to pay the Bin Tax. As for only being active in campaigns where we are challenging for seats in Leinster House, the areas where we are challenging for seats are also the areas where we are strongest and thus best able to campaign against the Tax.

3. Sligo. Contact Sligo SF and ask them why they did what they did.

Anyway, much as I suspect this is going to end up being a rehash of SF's record on the Charges the important thing is to keep pressure on Councillors to make sure they don't change their votes between now and the 29th. Their contact details are on the Dublin Corpo website and a quick phone-call to a Councillor reminding him or her that they're up for election in 2004 wouldn't hurt at all. And hopefully we'll have a very good turnout, especially from the people contributing to this thread, on the 29th.

by Brian Cahill - Socialist Party Tue Dec 24, 2002 16:34

A bit disengenuous there Justin.

Sinn Fein voted for bin charges in Sligo, as part of a deal to get the Mayor's job for one of their councillors. They then came back this year and voted to increase the tax.

In Dublin City two of the four Sinn Fein councillors failed to show for the vital vote when the tax was being introduced. This came as a surprise to nobody involved in the campaign: The Voice, the newspaper of the Socialist Party had predicted that two SF councillors would fail to show. The two councillors who did show up voted against publically recording the votes of individual councillors.

Nobody should think that Labour are any better. While Sinn Fein buckled under the pressure, Labour's knees hit the floor even harder. 3 of their councillors in Dublin openly voted for the tax.

As for Sinn Fein's councillors having the best record on this issue, Justin should know better than to try and get away with that one here. The Socialist Party councillors have always voted against double taxation - and they have always showed up.

Justin is right on one point though: It is vital to keep pressuring the councillors in the Corporation area on this one. The likes of Labour, Fine Gael and Sinn Fein will be looking for a way out, as anyone who can remember the antics of Labour and Democratic Left during the water tax votes could tell you.

by Jed Wed Dec 25, 2002 16:42

I can understand the questioning behind giving mainline-certified MUs
special numbers... but then RT/NR already do it with diesel locomotives so
there must be a perfectly good reason within their systems why it is the
case, else I can't see why they would do it. I don't see why D9000/55022
can't be registered as 55022 rather than 89500. After all, ti is a Class 55,
not an 89/5. Perhaps for the sake of organisation RT/NR like to keep
preserved locomotives of 'extinct' Classes in a special number series? Bear
in mind that DRS and Fragonset reinstated logos are re-registered under
their old numbers, rather than new 891xx/892xx/893xx numbers (for the 20s,
31s and 33s, etc). Perhaps the 89xxx series is kept for locomotives of
Classes previously 'extinct', eg. 40/45/50/52/55, etc?

by Paul Kinsella - Dublin Anti Bin Tax Campaign Wed Dec 25, 2002 22:20 paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot com 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eire 087-9748511

I take it the meeting is on Saturday (the 29th)? Maybe I'm being cynical here, but I imagine the Saturday meeting will be in the afternoon, rather than the usual 6:45 effort? Can't disturb the Councillors with their Saturday plans, can we? The poor things. Especially with the Christmas season in full swing. Ah sure they've all loads of luxury feasts and banquets to go on Saturday night. And sure what are we the Plebs to interrupt their Saturday night plans?

by Paul Kinsella - Dublin Anti Bin Tax Campaign Thu Dec 26, 2002 01:12 paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot com 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eire 087-9748511

Ooops! Committed a faux pas in my earlier message. Should have realised that the 29th is this Sunday, NOT Saturday as I said in my earlier comment. However I still think the rest of what I said holds true re the Councillors and their desire to have an early afternoon meeting rather than the traditional evening time meeting.

by IMCer Thu Dec 26, 2002 19:22

But you're not you sad piece of shit. You are a 'Twit' by name and nature. Why don't you contribute something positive instead of attacking genuine hard working activists? Or is that beyond your limited capabilty? Are you another 'Ray' (ie just posting negative comments and never contributing anything positive to indymedia)? Maybe you are that 'Ray'. The only Ray I like is a well battered one (preferably the more well battered the better) with chips together with loads of salt and vinegar. Yum yum.

by E Thu Dec 26, 2002 23:38

raycun@NewMail.Net Yes that's the son of bitch's Email Address, whose been annnoying everyone on indymedia Ireland.