Clerys are Commies shock!

by Daithi Mon Nov 25, 2002 02:23

No; but if you're good you can sing it at the next Indymedia party...

by phuq Hedd Fri Nov 22, 2002 03:36

Green Grow The Rushes, O!

reputedly the song that gave rise to the Latin-American term "gringo" for anglo-saxon invaders (the "green grow" sounded like "gringo" and it was very popular among cowboys).

Do I get a prize?

by comrade Thu Nov 21, 2002 22:10

Justin is right, it would take a clever evil bastard like McDowell to pick a hole in the sp rhetoric. They hate the C word, it scares them silly. But they end up being neither one thing or the other. By the swp are almost as scared of the communist tag and also whimper, we didnt really mean it guv, we are just socialists (harmless)

by Mags Thu Nov 21, 2002 16:11

12 for the chimes of the Kremlin clock

... now we just need someone to translate all that into Irish!

by Mags Thu Nov 21, 2002 16:10

but '13 for the holes in Trotsky's head!' is :) :)
God the Trots used to get most upset.

by pat c Thu Nov 21, 2002 14:39

i still don't think that:

"twelve for the holes in trotskys head."

is funny.

i suggest: " twelve for the moscow dynamos substitute!"

"i'll sing you one - oh!

what is your one - oh?

one for workers unity & evermore shallbe so!

two for the workers hands, working for their living oh!

three, three, bread, peace & land!

four for the fourth international!

five for the years of the soviet plan!

six for the todpuddle martyrs!

seven for the stars in connollys flag!

eight for the eight red army!

nine for the days of the general strike!

ten for the h-block martyrs!

eleven for the moscow dynamos!

twelve for the moscow dynamos substitute!

by Daithi Thu Nov 21, 2002 14:28

I'll sing you one, O
Red fly the banners, O
What is your one, O
One is workers' unity and evermore shall be so.

Twelve for the hours of the Moscow clock...
Eleven for the works of Lenin...
Ten for the days that shook the world...
Nine for the nine republics...
Eight for the Eighth Route Army...
Seven for the Seventh World Congress..
Six for the Tolpuddle martyrs...
Five for the years of the Five Year Plan...
Four for the four great teachers...
Three, three the Comintern...
Two, two the opposites, interpenetrating, O
One is workers' unity and ever more shall be so.

(I don't know the song but I'm guessing you add one each time - could go on for a while?)

what's the tune?

by Mags Thu Nov 21, 2002 14:12

Apparently it used to have a verse with 'Viva Stalino...', but that got revised out.

Does anyone have the words of 'Red Fly the Banners Oh!', that was always good for winding up the Trots in pub sing-a-longs. :)

by Daithi Thu Nov 21, 2002 13:45

you all set me off searching the Web for the different versions of the Red Flag (got seven so far) but in my travels I found this gem...

http://www.guerracivil1936.galeon.com/bandierarossa.mp3

it's the jauntiest version of Bandiere Rossa you've ever heard.

if you're sitting at work, turn up the speakers, hit the link, and play it loud :)

lyrics for those who have forgotten; (remember you can say socialismo instead of comunismo if you prefer...)

Avanti o popolo, alla riscossa,
Bandiera rossa, Bandiera rossa
Avanti o popolo, alla riscossa,
Bandiera rossa trionferà.

Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Evviva il comunismo e la libertà.

Degli sfruttati l’immensa schiera
La pura innalzi, rossa bandiera.
O proletari, alla riscossa
Bandiera rossa trionferà.

Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Il frutto del lavoro a chi lavora andrà.

Dai campi al mare, alla miniera,
All’officina, chi soffre e spera,
Sia pronto, è l’ora della riscossa.
Bandiera rossa trionferà.

Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Soltanto il comunismo è vera libertà.

Non più nemici, non più frontiere :
Sono i confini rosse bandiere.
O comunisti, alla riscossa,
Bandiera rossa trionferà.

Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Evviva Lenin, la pace e la libertà.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:48 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): It is very entertaining to hear the incorruptible Deputy from the Socialist Party expostulating on the frauds of others. Let us remind ourselves of one thing - if the public knew the kind of society he really stands for, he would not even have his own seat. He has been peddling Marxist-Trotskyism for years dressed up as socialism. It is Communism with a pink bow tie. It is fair enough if he really believes in his demand that the workers should take to the streets and send the Government scurrying.

Mr. J. Higgins: Yes, and I will say it as well.

Mr. McDowell: He is doomed to the marginalisation that Trotskyism deserves.

Mr. J. Higgins: It is the Minister who is doomed.

Mr. McDowell: Marxism has been seen to fail the very people it pretends to protect. This is all cant about the working class. When Marxists had control of Europe they had to erect minefields and barbed wire fences to keep the workers in the paradises that turned out to be tyrannies.

Mr. J. Higgins: They were Stalinists, not Marxists.

Mr. McDowell: Whether they were Stalinist or Trotskyite the same thing applies. They are all Communists and the people are entitled to know that. If the Deputy stands up in the House to berate others for flying under false colours at elections, he should make it clear that he is a Communist. Why does he not tell his constituents that he wants to bring about Communism in Ireland?

Mr. J. Higgins: It is democratic socialism not Communism.

Mr. McDowell: No it is not. Socialism is the phrase that is frequently used to dress up Communism by people who are ashamed of what they really stand for.

Mr. J. Higgins: This is pathetic. Let us talk about the Estimates now.

Mr. McDowell: The Deputy is a fraud, if I may say so. He is a con man who has been peddling Communist politics under a false pretence for a long time. If he does not like the heat then he should get out of the kitchen. The Deputy can give it but he cannot take it. He is blustering away there pretending he is not a Communist.

Mr. J. Higgins: Let the Minister justify the cuts.

Mr. McDowell: I will yield in this debate if Deputy Higgins will stand up and say that he repudiates Communism and Marxism. He will not do it because he believes in it. That is what he stands for. I defer to nobody and particularly not to Deputy Higgins on a charge of fraudulent politics.
In the last election I stood clearly on a platform which had as its primary role the keeping of the finances of the country on a sound basis. Deputy Higgins was the first to say that I would stand for the kind of politics for which I stand. He was the first to go on platforms in his constituency and berate me and hold me up as an object of contempt because I wish to do what it takes to make this country successful.
Let us be clear about this. The Deputy is a Trotskyite and a Communist. I am not. That is the truth of the matter. I do not wish to hear Deputy Higgins going on about fraudulent politics, fraudulent labels and getting elected by fraud. If the Deputy actually told his constituents what he stands for, the kind of society he wants to create, the kind of society that people like him have created in the past, he would not even save his notional deposit.

Mr. J. Higgins: The Minister has said that three times. Let us hear about the cuts.

Mr. McDowell: I also want to deal with another contribution that was made by a Member of the technical group. It is important that it should be said, although it may not be the appropriate occasion on which to do it. I completely reject the shallow attack on the Lindsay report which was just delivered in this House. It was a well structured and careful report by a responsible and decent judge.

Mr. J. Higgins: Why did the Minister not come in and defend it when it was being debated?

Mr. McDowell: Because the Deputy and his friends so badly disrupted the debate that there was not time for me to speak.

Mr. J. Higgins: Rubbish. Talk about a fraudulent claim.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please.

Mr. J. Higgins: There was loads of time.

Mr. McDowell: The Lindsay report which was referred to by Deputy Connolly is a model of clarity, concision and fairness. It is entirely faithful to the terms of reference which this House set for the tribunal. It is a sad day when politicians turn themselves into a lynch mob to turn on the Judiciary to whom they entrust serious inquiries . I completely reject the series of increasingly vindictive and thoughtless attacks on an honourable member of the Judiciary who presented to this House a careful, well balanced and proper report on a subject.

Mr. Connolly: It was not the woman's honour I attacked but the cost of the report at €23 million.

Mr. McDowell: I entirely reject and distance myself from that type of mealy mouthed lynch mob oratory to the effect that somehow she had let this House down. She most certainly did not and I will stand up for the rights of a judge who cannot defend herself in this House against ignorant criticism of the kind to which she has had to submit.

Mr. Connolly: We made the same comments two weeks ago and the Minister had the chance to say it then.

Mr. J. Higgins: The Minister is two weeks too late.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please.

Mr. McDowell: I wish to deal briefly with some issues more relevant to this debate, the Estimates that are before the House. The Estimates will, in combination with the measures taken on budget day, approximate the growth in public spending to the growth in available revenue. Before the election, that is something which I said I would ensure happened. I, and my party, are clear that if revenue is available we will spend it. If it is not available we will not borrow in order to create the kind of economic mess that brought me into politics in the first place, the situation that existed in 1987 when the country's debt had doubled in five years. We were pictured on the front of The Economist magazine as the sick man of Europe and the IMF was going to come in to rescue us from the absolutely irresponsible politics that had brought us to our knees.
Unemployment stood at 250,000 and 19% of workers were without jobs. There were areas, particularly in Deputy Higgins' constituency, with 80% to 90% unemployment. There were no jobs and third generation unemployment was a fact in some houses. It is the policies of the Progressive Democrats in combination with Fianna Fáil that turned this country around and brought unemployment down to 4%.

Mr. J. Higgins: No way.

Mr. McDowell: The Deputy cannot take it.

Ms Lynch: The Minister warned us about Fianna Fáil before the election.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Please allow the Minister without interruption.

Mr. McDowell: In the course of the election, the Labour Party only wanted to raise taxes but it was afraid to say it. It suggested that it wanted to bring our tax rates up to the European average. Effectively, that meant that it wanted to double some rates of taxation and make our system of taxation the kind that has driven jobs out of central Europe. It wanted to undo all the work that had been done to make this country successful.

Ms Lynch: The Minister warned us about Fianna Fáil before the election.

Mr. McDowell: The Deputy will get her opportunity. It wanted to borrow left, right and centre to bring us back to where it really wants the country to be - in a state of economic failure - so that it can weep crocodile tears for that section of society it claims to protect. I believe social justice comes from giving people the chance to participate in the economic life of the country. I do not believe in socialist politics of human set-aside. I do not want to go back to a situation of 250,000 people out of work.

Ms Lynch: The Minister wants us all to work for a very low wage.

Mr. McDowell: I do not want to go back to the failed politics of tax and spend that dragged the country down, and we are not going to do it either. We are determined to stick to the formula that has delivered success to the country and got people in Deputy Higgins' constituency off the dole queue and back to work.

by Mags Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:40

Well if you wanted to hear a raving speech about 'red filth' you should have been listening to the Vincent Browne Show on Radio 1. It played Joe Higgins speech from the Dail where he lashed into the government over the budget, etc. Very good it was. Then Michael McDowell stood up to reply and did not mention anything to do with the government or economic policy for 10 minutes. It was all lunatic Red Scare stuff about how dangerous poor old Joe is and how he supported the regimes in Eastern Europe (?), etc.
I will try to find both speeches later, if I have time and post them up - it was great craic.

by hunter - pfln Wed Nov 20, 2002 20:31

yeah, i had a freaky experience last nite, while watching Eronews in the wee hours, they were doing a report on Santa training in germany, half stoned i was and i thought i heard these four mad santa's signing the red flag. i near dropped me book, but then i realised it was in fact tannenbaum (which i now know means xmas tree). here was me thinking euronews was making a joke abourt santa clauses being a ravinf filthy red, but they werent.

god i hate euronews.

descrpition of Carlo Guliani's murder: "were one protestor died" FFS

in anticipation of the nato protests in prague: "shopowners are closing up... as thousands of anarchist are due in town"

and of course no mention of the revalations in yesterdays guardian that various e/european countries are joining cos they have specific traits and sjkills that the Us/nato want - Slovakia have a kick ass mountain army (apperantly) and i think they want the Czechs expertise in biological weapons development!!! Oh FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!!! its ok for the us to have these weapons, but not some crazed loony in the middle east. gotcha. we only trust crazed loonies from the west. fall back in line y'all!

by Mags Wed Nov 20, 2002 19:06

Daniel O Connell supporters used to wear greenery in their hats as symbol of their support for him. At the monster meetings and elections, etc. I think it was usually ivy or shamrock/clover. This is likely the origin of the Irish and Shamrock mythology - certianly has nothing to do with St Patrick.

by Ray Wed Nov 20, 2002 18:07

Yeah, Tannenbaum means christmas tree, but the Jacobites didn't have a fixed uniform, and so were identified by the decorations in their hats...

by Mags Wed Nov 20, 2002 17:58

My German is pretty non existent, but I though Tannenbaum meant 'Christmas Tree'. I don't think the Jacobites had anything much to do with Germany.

About the Red Flag song itself:
"Connell wrote "The Red Flag" in 1889 on the train from Charing Cross to New Cross after attending a lecture on socialism at a meeting of the Social Democratic Federation.  It was inspired by the London dock strike happening at that time, as well as activities of the Irish Land League, the Paris Commune, the Russian nihilists and Chicago anarchists."   

So it is 'communist' in the broadest sense.

Also 2002 is the 150th anniversary of the birth of Jim Connell.

by Ray Wed Nov 20, 2002 16:43

I thought it was about the Jacobites.

by Mags Wed Nov 20, 2002 16:09

...it's about a Christmas tree.

by Mags Wed Nov 20, 2002 16:05

...it's about a Christmas tree.

by Communism is Rubbish Wed Nov 20, 2002 15:54

Not a bad song, I s'pose, except for the fact that it's pro-communist...Ugh.

by Karl Liebknecht Wed Nov 20, 2002 11:27

Actually Mr. Connell robbed an old German tune...

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
Wie treu sind deine Blätter.
Du grünst nicht nur zur Sommerzeit,
Nein, auch im Winter, wenn es schneit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
Wie treu sind deine Blätter.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
du kannst mir sehr gefallen.
Wie oft hat nicht zur Weihnachtszeit
Ein Baum von dir mich hoch erfreut.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
du kannst mir sehr gefallen.

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
dein Kleid will mich was lehren:
die Hoffnung und Beständigkeit
gibt Trost und Kraft zu aller Zeit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
dein Kleid will mich was lehren.

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
dein Kleid will mich was lehren:
die Hoffnung und Beständigkeit
gibt Trost und Kraft zu aller Zeit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
dein Kleid will mich was lehren.

by jenny b Tue Nov 19, 2002 20:18

More people commit suicide at christmas, than any other time during the year.

by jenny b Tue Nov 19, 2002 20:16

the french had the right idea about how to treat the rich and aristocrasy. 'OFF WIF THEIR HEADS'

by Mags Tue Nov 19, 2002 17:18

Yeah, Billy Bragg had a version of it to 'The White Cockade', took a bit of getting used to.

by pat c Tue Nov 19, 2002 17:08

the red flag was originally intended to be sung to the tune: "the white cockade"

much faster

by pat c Tue Nov 19, 2002 17:05

it would also make a change from the gpo. so how about sp, swp etc moving their sales & petitions to clerys?