Report of anti racist march --Dublin 24/08

Saturday August 24, 2002 18:15

by J Reed - Socialist Worker

“This is the second time a Chinese man has been killed in Dublin. I have friends who are abused in the street, many of them have been physically attacked and if they go to the Gardai there is no response or they are very slow. Other friends have had their windows broken by teenagers and been attacked. Many of the Chinese suffer this, and I think the Government are responsible for this, and especially the Garda authorities.” “Racism is getting worse. I have been working as a software engineer for a year, others I work with feel that the conditions in Dublin are getting worse.” Said Wan, who working in Ireland for a year as he took part the protest against a racist murder in Dublin.

“This is the second time a Chinese man has been killed in Dublin. I have friends who are abused in the street, many of them have been physically attacked and if they go to the Gardai there is no response or they are very slow. Other friends have had their windows broken by teenagers and been attacked. Many of the Chinese suffer this, and I think the Government are responsible for this, and especially the Garda authorities.”
“Racism is getting worse. I have been working as a software engineer for a year, others I work with feel that the conditions in Dublin are getting worse.” Said Wan, who working in Ireland for a year as he took part the protest against a racist murder in Dublin.
At the beginning of August, 50 year old Leong Ly Min was brutally beaten to death by a gang who racially abused him. He died a few days later in hospital.
Mr Ly Min had lived in Ireland for thirty years and owned a take away in Tallaght. He was singled out for attack simply because of his skin colour.
This murder comes eight months after another Chineseman; Zhao Liu Tao was murdered in Dublin. The climate for immigrants and asylum seekers has gotten worse in the period. McDowell’s first act as Minister for Justice was to send hundreds of Gardai out to ‘sweep’ for so called illegal immigrants. His priorities are not to clamp down on serious criminals or the Ansbacher account holders, but the most vulnerable section of Irish society.
On Saturday the 24th of August some 200 people marched from O’Connell Street to the spot in Temple bar where the attack occurred and lay flowers in his memory.
The march was called by Globalise Resistance and Chinese Students United and members of the Chinese and Vietnamese communities were present, as well as human rights and anti racist groups and left groups.
Mike Jennings of SIPTU speaking at the protest, said “Racist attacks are unacceptable and we should stand shoulder to shoulder against them. Ethnicity and race are irrelevant”
He mentioned that many politicians had “played the racist and xenophobic card in the last general election” and that the Nice Treaty debate should be free from it.
Khalid Abraham, anti-racist campaigner and member of the Campaign to end sanctions on Iraq said, “This man was a law abiding human being we have heard nothing from officials on this issue we must be united on multiculturalism. McDowoll didn’t start with drug dealers or criminals, but refugees.”
Daithi Doolan Sinn Fein, said “we must create safe streets for everyone” adding that “the Herald and Independent newspapers have added to the climate of racism by taking about bogus asylum seekers and ‘floods’ of immigrants”. “Communities are told that there are not enough Garda resources to tackle crime, bur McDowell could spare hundreds of Gardai for the raids”
Kieran Allen from the SWP pointed out that there was no condemnation of the attack from the government. “Dublin Corporation should have called this rally. In Germany when Jewish and black people are attacked the government lead the demonstrations.The government have been stoking up the racist rhetoric that fuels these thugs when the UVF and UDA murder Catholics in Northern Ireland we are quick to blame the politicians who stoke up that hatred but no one in government has paid tribute to the Chinese community in Ireland, they only talk about bogus asylum seekers”
Maggie, Chinese student in Ireland for two and a half years said on the demonstration, “From last year it has become more dangerous, I was back in China the previous murder (Zhao Liu Tao) and I saw the newspapers and I know this story, and we are very, very angry.”

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Comments (47 of 47)

'Irish' being attacked in North???

by Pat

Sat Aug 24, 2002 19:10

I found it strange that Joe '99 votes' Carolan was talkiing about the Irish that are subject to racist attack north of the border.

Are protestents not Irish? are the SWP now advocating the 2 nations theory in the North? Or is it GR that's 2 nations? or are the SWP just opportunisticly tailending the increase in sectarian attacks?

Pat the twat

by Word watcher

Sat Aug 24, 2002 19:29

What a great contribution you make to the development of progressive politics. Instead of phrasewatching which you seem to want to tarnish a whole protest or organisation with why don't you organise something worthwhile. Or why not organise something in the Short Strand to stop the loyalist attacks - or are you just a partitionist word watcher?

Racism

by Shelta

Sat Aug 24, 2002 21:51

Irish travellers have been subject to racist attacks for decades. There is only one 'race' in this world, the human race,-but racism is alive and virulent in Ireland. First they came for the travellers.....

message for word watcher

Sun Aug 25, 2002 14:30

I am opposed to all sectarian attacks, carried out by loyalists or republicans it does not matter.

I am opposed to the SF view that Irish Protestents are some how another nationality. The SWP have always had a left republican position on the North, and this is reflected in the dodgy line that 'Irish are being attacked north of the border'

words

by huh

Sun Aug 25, 2002 14:37

and it says all these thing where in the article?

not pat the twat

by pat c

Sun Aug 25, 2002 18:09

pat the twat is really rambling if he isn't aware of the level of sectarian attacks on catholics in the north. it far exceeds attacks on protestants. i condemn all sectarian attacks but i do not consider self defence by catholics to be sectarian.

btw how many votes did u ever get?

Pat

by Observer

Sun Aug 25, 2002 18:27

How do you differentiate a defensive catholic attack from a offensive protestant one?

The simple fact is these riots are hurting the innocent people on both sides the eldery and young.

Pat will take this as an opportunity to abuse me and call me a west brit and a prod.

I'm not I oppose all sectarian violence, and I oppose people who seem to think that a certain kind of sectarian violence is okay but another isn't.

This attitude feeds a cycle of violence, and invarible both sides look not to go after the people responsible for the violence, who have invaribly fled to the shadows, and are difficult to find, but to lash out on random victims (consider the tit for tat killings of taxi drivers during the 80s and early 90s).

Encouraging this violence breeds hate, and pain. And innocent people get hurt.

It's very easy for you to say you condone violence from a comfy suburb in dublin Pat, when you're detached from the actual realities of the situation.

But hey, this is your cue to call be a pseudo pacfist ,and a west brit, or whatever.

Y'know labelling people into degorative categories, and making sweeping generalisations of their beliefs was a classic trick of nazi propagandists.

to observor

Sun Aug 25, 2002 18:45

you are a pathetic fool. so if i call you a name you dislike then i'm a nazi?

well what does that make the west brits who have poured all sorts of abuse on me?
the scum even published where i work.
no doubt you approve of that.

yes, i am fed up of the constant whinging and string of lies which emit from the west brits. the fact is that protestants are trying to ethnically cleanse catholics from cerain areas of the north.

yes you are pseudo pacifists. you don't differentiate between the violence of the oppressor and the defensive violence of the oppressed.

i don't believe in elitist action & i think armed groups should be answerable to the working class & under political leadership.

however i also have to live in the real world: if it wasn't for the guns held by republicans then loyalists would carry out a bosnian scale ethnic cleansing in the north.

i don't live in a comfy suburb; i live in dublin inner city. i have physically confronted racists, youth defence & west brits. i have also had plastic bullets shot at me by brits & ruc.

have you ever stood up for anything?

now go & crawl back into whatever shithole you emerged from

Armed groups

by Just a quick un

Mon Aug 26, 2002 00:05

"i don't believe in elitist action & i think armed groups should be answerable to the working class & under political leadership."

That comment is either staggeringly misinformed or propaganda. Republician terrorists have often acted againist the wishes and desires of the communities they claim to represent*. Threatening peace workers, such as women's groups with threats of violence if they continue their loud opposition to all sectarian violence. Your anaylist of the north is hopeless naive, and suggests that a rugged band of red branch wannabes are defended communties, when the fact is so often they are running drugs, terrorizing anyone who raises a voice of opposition and behaving like thugs.

Oh and Pat I read that comment that forcing you to run screaming to every Indymedia Ireland group to beg for it's removal, and I agree with it. It asks some difficult questions of you, which as usual you choose to ignore.

I'm so looking forward to slapping you sidewise when we meet old man, lets see you stand up for your alledged convictions

*This comment should not be taken to assume I am a supporter of protestant groups, but rather that I resent the impression that one side is a group of blood hungry thugs and the other are a bunch of robin hoods, when the fact is, both sides have ravaged their communities run extoration racks, and drugs and intimidated anyone in their way.

And pay attention old man, I'm not saying that name calling is nazi like, I'm saying that cultural sterotyping and slur words coming from an "anti nazi" is the highest level of irony, and lets us know what AFA are, a bunch of wannabe facists, just looking for an excuse to put on a shiny uniform and nice boots, and kick the crap out of "the enemy of society", come to think of it, thats the kind of recruiting drive the SA youth use.

Crypto Fascist.

to the southern loyalist quick un

Mon Aug 26, 2002 09:32

as usual the brits are staggering with their lack of logic.

i went to no imc meetings. i complained because details of my work addess were posted on indymedia & other stuff in an attempt to get me into trouble. now thats hardly something you would expect on a radical site is it?

the fact that this scumbag defends shows just how radical & committed to the privacy policy some in imc are.

oh yes, i would love to meet you face to face you low life southern loyalist. maybe at an imc meeting? its been a while since i've kicked the love of the queen out of a southern loyalist.

your comments about afa are pathetic, we physically confront fascists & racists. what have you ever done to fight against racism?

when have republicans ever run drugs? what are your sources for this?

you have none. its just typical lies coming from a southern loyalist.

whats really upsetting you southern loyalist vermin is the number of republican articles appearing on this site. well you had better get used to it. the republicans are here and we're here to stay.

if you don't like that then you can fuck off home to britland & go into the service of youe queen.

Tá ár lá ann anois!

take it outside, get a room...

by bored

Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:37

...whatever
This bun fight has nothing to with the article and is just noise, do it in private it is very, very, dull.

i agree

Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:59

bored, you're right. the west brits took it off topic as they always do.

Someone else u called a nazi will be at the next IMC Meeting Pat - take ur abuse elsewhere

by Blisset (slight return)

Mon Aug 26, 2002 15:19

blisset

Mon Aug 26, 2002 17:04

why is it that i should take my abuse elsewhere?
why not say the same to those who were abusing me? i was responding to abuse.

indeed, are you allowed to make abusive comments but i'm not?

i might point out that the Non-republican contributor threatened to knock me sideways. i then responded with a similar offer to him. i shouldn't have suggested a meet at an imc meeting though!

(but you are right, it would be better if abuse was absent from arguments here. some chance i fear.)

blisset, you pointed out to me the implications of calling for "death to all zionists". i fully admit this was an over the top, even silly title for my comment.

it was not however racist & did not deserve to be classed with the comment that was posted by a nazi. zionists are not a race. it is a political ideology which is shared by both jews and gentiles. many jews, even ultra-orthodox jews reject zionism.

therefore while the title of my comment may have been stupid, there is no rational basis to call it racist or describe me as a nazi for making it.

i have proved my anti-fascist & anti establishment credentials many times over the years. i have physically confronted racists, youth defence & even west brits (who were hassling kids running a republican stall). i have been battoned & beaten by cops on numerous occasions on demos & on picket lines.
i wonder how many of those non-republicans who abused me could claim the same.

i take your arguments & contributions seriously unlike those of a certain persuasion. the exchanges between me and the "anti-republicans" (to adopt a phrase) started because i merely posted a mail regarding collins hurley & a lecture on his involvement in the gaa.
their reaction to this was to say the least lacked a sense of proportion.

Mon Aug 26, 2002 17:07

blisset. who else did i call a nazi (unjustifiably?)& in what context?

Lay off of Pat

by Firewoman

Tue Aug 27, 2002 10:28

What is Ye're problem. You're basicly trying to discourage him from going to the I.M.C. meeting.....at least from what I can tell. Now to tell you the truth, from what I can gather his views are simialar to my own. Now, I am abroad at the moment and will be coming home to Mayo in a week. One of the first things I intended to do was go to the soonest I.M.C. Meeting (which would cost me quite a bit in the train ticket in my present situation). I HAD respected what you were trying to do,but now I feel thoroughly Frozen out.
This is how you treat those who dare to have other opinions than you?
I'll still read the articles, here much respect to Ray, Mags, Pat C .I'll be back to this comment to see some groveling apologies from some others.

Essentially Pat my problem is

Tue Aug 27, 2002 11:06

You see anyone who has issues with both the behaviour of Unionists, but also has issues with the Republicans their tactics and behaviour. People who don't see the north as a cowboy movie, with the republicans terrorists wearing white hats; as a West Brit, Loyalists scum. I argue that the situation is far more complex than the picture you paint, and recieve abuse.

Also Republican drug dealers. I suggest you read up on direct action againist drugs. This republican group has been responisble for several drug dealer deaths and maiming, not to perserve their communities, but over turf.

Secondly I never said that you ran screaming to an IMC meetings, just to Indymedia lists. and again who ever said that raised an interesting point. We pay your salary mate, could you not find something better to do with your time, like y'know work?

You see Nothing wrong will calling for the extermination of a group of people. Calling for death to all homosexuals, muslims (people adopt the muslim faith), trade unionists, or star trek fans is an equally abusive comment, and you've been reduced to semantics to try to justify yourself.

Yet you consistently argue that it's not racism cause it's not anti Judanism cause not all Jews are Zionists. Pat we're not morons, we got that a while back, it still doesn't excuse or justify your language, or the hate filled tone. Or the pissy little apology you gave.

You like to think that your background and credentiles give you the right to swagger around here and throw your opinion around, and this gives what you say more weight and your argument. Well Pat I've been involved in the civil rights movement in two continents, and I've been batoned, and arrested. Am I suddenly more interesting and important now?

Pat you breed a philosophy of hate. Hate the Zionist, hate the Nazists, hate the Loyalists, hate the scum. And fight them. And you know what I've learned in my time? That hate never solves anything. The north has kept bleeding because eveyone on both side has looked to every death as an excuse for one more. The nazis thrive on having an enemy.

Essentially I see and your philosophy as part of the problem, and your self righteous, arrogant beleifs as much a threat to our planets future as the people you despise.

observor & breach of indymedia privacy

Tue Aug 27, 2002 11:28

you have once again proved yourself to be a pathetic & hypocritical fool.

whats really bothering you & the rest of the southern loyalists is the number of republican articles appearing on indymedia.

as i've said, we're not going away.

your committment to civil rights is admirable. you prove this by supporting those who published my work address on indymedia. you also think its your busines or anyone elses on indymedia as to whose time i write these posts on.

is it radical to publish someones work address?

is it radical to try & get someone into trouble with their employer?

"At no time, unless a user specifically authorizes such disclosure, will IMC Ireland disclose individual user personal information that is not publicly available to unrelated third parties. " so much for your respect for one of indymedias core beliefs.

"Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth." you seem to want to subvert indymedia from this

is it radical to breach indymedias privacy policy?

it is not possible to get a rational or honest response from your ilk.

AFA can be found at most anti racist events. the southern loyalists are free to offer their abuse & threats on a face to face basis there.

firewoman

Tue Aug 27, 2002 11:33

thanks for the support.

its not just those directly involved in the running of indymedia who keep it going, despite the sacrifices they make. those who write & post articles are also important; without them indymedia wouldn't have a purpose.

so firewoman, get those articles in.

what is it about the newswire...

Tue Aug 27, 2002 12:09

...That when some one actually produces a news report it is swamped with nonsense like the above.

Isn't it bad enough that what little news there is lost on the newswire among the spam without swamping with bullshit comments those articles that do report something.

bored & indymedia privacy. where stands imc?

Tue Aug 27, 2002 12:50

bored

i agree this is dragging on but i feel important issues are being raised here.

mainly as to whether or not peoples personal details are safe on indymedia.

some people involved in indymedia think they have the right to publish a persons work address & to attempt to get him into trouble with his employer.

do those who are involved in running imc as a whole support the privacy policy?

it took four emails from me to get my personal details removed from indymedia.

the fuhrer of indymedia

Tue Aug 27, 2002 16:54

I shot my alter ego in the jacks in connolly station after being referred to as above by Pat.

Don't you (pat) think threatening online to kick people around at an IMC meeting would tend to discourage badly needed new volunteers from coming to a meeting. Keep your cool dude - there is more to life than constant flamewars in the virtual realm.

Firewoman - please do come to the meeting - IMC is the people who use it -

Tue Aug 27, 2002 17:13

Just was pissed off with the fact that pat was threatening to have a go at someone at the meeting - this is not a good way to attract much needed volunteers - a lot of the problems that are arising with the site would solve themselves if regular users of the site joined in on the housekeeping side of things - As for the section 31 victims having a go - It could be anyone and we should remember that. I am a stone cold 'price of my soul' era bd fan so I respectfully suggest you don't confuse a little lightly done housekeeping with intolerance of a variety of political opinions

Tue Aug 27, 2002 17:56

ok i shouldn't have called u fuhrer. it was in the heat of debate. you called me some nice things as well.

i made my threat in response to a threat to me. i accept i shouldn't have suggested imc as a meet. but my threat was a defensive threat of the oppressed...

remember this person was also supporting the idea that it was right to publish my details on indymedia. he was determined to cause problems for me at work. he was hostile to the imc privacy policy.

do you really want that sort of person involved in imc? does imc?

i think u are missing the main point. whats at issue here is not anyones position on republicanism, loyalism or anyother ism.

its about indymedias privacy policy. indymedia would have the details of "jod" who posted my personal details. they know whether or not hes a volunteer (not in the republican sense).

the posting of those details could have gotten me into trouble at work & could also aid racists/fascists in targetting me.

it seems obvious that some people involved in imc do not support the privacy policy & feel it is their right to publish peoples personal details.

i would be interested in reading the views of indymedia as a collective.

Indymedia does not have an agreed policy on this as far as I know

Tue Aug 27, 2002 21:30

Personally I have called repeatedly for even the server logs to be regularly wiped - I will bring this up at the next meeting which I believe will be in the next two weeks

Not to get involved

by Aidan - IMC Ireland

Wed Aug 28, 2002 00:53

I've spent the evening having a pint with a techie mate of mine.

Pat you've implied that someone at IMC Ireland published your work details here.

However in the past (I checked back) given your full name and POP3 e-mail address here. You may as well have given a DNA sample, it's that easy to trace you back from that. It would be a easy (as in piss easy, according to this tech) to track this information back to where you work.

Secondly there are over 200+ people on the IMC Ireland list. Not ever one is member of the collective or plays an active part on Indymedia Ireland.

For my knowledge no one with access has given out or used information about you. Therefore, Indymedia Ireland is not in breach of it's privacy guidelines. And you should not be blaming Indymedia Ireland for this.

In this case and I hate to say it, your computer security is more than lax. I would suggest like many people here do that you post under a pseudonium (i spelt that wrong) and if you feel you must put a e-mail address on the site, I'd recommend a webmail address to be set up. I'd suggest hushmail.com for secure webmail.

And, Finally

by Aidan

Wed Aug 28, 2002 01:10

Pat you're making an incredibly serious allegation about Indymedia Ireland one which could if proven damage Indymedia's Ireland credibility.

I've looked back and frankly you've gone from claiming someone is doing this; to Indymedia Ireland is doing this.

I and I'm sure the rest of the collective are worried that this could damage Indymedia.

I've e-mailed the active tech commitee both of them(who to my knowledge are the only people who could do this) to find out if it's possible.

I'd ask you not to make wild allegdations until this has been checked out

Finally, finally

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:05

As a tech pointed out.

It's entirely pausible and slighty more possible that someone who knows you personnally, or through work posted this up here.

aidan & blisset

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:21

aidan

i appreciate the fact that you are taking this seriously.

i have no intentions of making wild allegations about imc. but from the content of some of the comments made, it would suggest that people who are involved in indymedia do not support its privacy policy & believe that my personal details should be put up on indymedia & it seems possible the poster jod was an imc worker.i don't know for certain.

this is not about my politics, it could happen to anyone.

if this scumbag takes a personal or political dislike to someone else then he/she is just as likely to post their details.

such a person is not to be trusted, they are just as likely to pass info on to the police if they don't like individuals involved in afa, sp, wsm, swp, gr, rts etc

if you can identify jod you should.

Blisset
what also bothers me is that blisset thought that someone who was hostile to imcs privacy policy & thought my details should have been left up would make a suitable imc volunteer. this, i think does damage to imc credibility.

anyway i know you are busy & thanks again for taking this up.

pat

Sorry Pat

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:33

But I don't see the evidence. Please illuminate. Someone posted very loose details of were you work. They didn't give your extention number or even address, just what you do for a living.

Aside from someone knowing where you work and your comments to the IMC list, it narrows it down to 200 odd people. Assuming the same person made the orginal comment and second comment. They might not be.

So again please explain why you're so sure when you have very little evidence to support this.

Checking our logs is a breach of Indymedia privacy policy. And sets an ugly president. I'd be loathed to do it.

Pat since you've posted to this site you've accused members of Indymedia Ireland of

1. Having a pro zionist editorial policy

2. An anti republican editorial policy

3. Checking your IP address.

Thats an awful lot of allegations, and I'd argue long and hard againist breaching our privacy guidelines for your witch hunt.

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:54

i think its unlikely anyone from work did it. i have no feuds going or gone.

the others who post thru the same proxy server would be like or even more republican than me.

from the content of jods comment he was one of the people who i have been tangling with since the days of the infamous collins hurley.

jod put it up. you should identify him/her if you can.

i didn't breach imc privacy policy jod did.

stop trying to turn the tables.

as i've said i've reasonable grounds to suspect that someone from imc leaked these details.

disprove it by identifying jod.

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:11

For starts we can't seeing as you made us delete the comment.

Secondly I've asked you above what evidence you have and you haven't given it. Fine it's not someone in work, someone you know then perhaps.

Finally I don't think Indymedia should breach it's own privacy policy because of your claim when you've been making consistent wild allegations about Indymedia Ireland since you posted to this site.

In essence you want to know who this person is, and you want us to do the work for you.

We've explained how its not easy to check Indymedia IP logs, and only two people could do this, and there is no suspicion that it is either of them.

Pat unless you can give some kind of solid evidence that leads you to believe this is someone from Indymedia there is no point taking this any further.

You can rant on about a unknown member of the collective abusing powers they don't even have, and whatever else.

End of discussion

not end of discussion just yet

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:55

if you are not able to identify jod, then thats ok. i thought the comment was hidden.

however i'm the aggrieved party here. so stop trying to turn the tables.

on anti-republican censorship: a number of pro republican articles were hidden on the basis they had been submitted within 20 minutes. however around the same time, "666" posted a lot of anti ira articles. these were not hidden. on that particular occasion, imc policy was not carried out in an even handed manner.

on pro zionism: i was wrong to make that charge. at least i admit mistakes. is everyone else here so perfect?

now this is the end of the discussion.

pat c

by (blis)tered in heat of debate

Wed Aug 28, 2002 14:20

Pat C: "Blisset
what also bothers me is that blisset thought that someone who was hostile to imcs privacy policy & thought my details should have been left up would make a suitable imc volunteer. this, i think does damage to imc credibility."

Pat I do appreciate your heated style of debate a little just as I enjoy the feuding on eastenders ocassionaly. But get your facts right or you will lose all arguments - you don't know my mind thank god and I never suggested the above : I suggested that you allowing your online arguments to escalate to name calling and threats of physical confrontations at an IMC Meeting might have an impact on potential volunteers - I was not saying or thinking that anyone in particular was a suitable volunteer - I assume in a blanket manner at all times that people with different agendas will and do use and abuse the site and even the mailing lists for their own purposes - to create arguments - encourage left wing in-fighting - spread malicious lies and disinformation - put off casual users and even genuine committed users - the only way to make the site sing is for more volunteers to get involved in the process - the more volunteers and committed good writers the less space for these maniacs and provocateurs - simple mathematics - nothing personal - I would have problems going and volunteering at a public meeting where people had threatened to have a scrap - wouldn't you?

sigh.......

Wed Aug 28, 2002 17:40

i was responding to a threat of physical assault from someone who also thought my personal details should be displayed on imc.

he may well be the person who put them up.

i already agreed with you that an imc meeting would not be a suitable venue for such a meet.

i would again point out that i'm the agrieved party here.

my details were put up by "jod"

i really wish people would remember this & stop trying to turn the tables.

by Daithi

Wed Aug 28, 2002 22:47

Speaking personally Pat, I've come across your email address somewhere before on some article, can't recall if it was here or in another place, it sticks in my mind as the domain was unusual. if you just type this domain into your address bar your place of work is very obvious! possibly using a web-based email account when dealing with political stuff might be prudent.

this is a general web issue, not an IMC one. When I or other students use college email accounts on a site like this you don't need to look at browser logs or anything. Someone with a TCD email account is hardly likely to be doing Arts in UCD.

It's just junior sleuthing, nothing more - but the solution is thankfully easy enough :-)

Turning tables

Thu Aug 29, 2002 00:54

Pat I'm sorry but speaking to you has been one of the most frustrating and pointless experiences of my life. I've tried to give you rational and sane arguments to you, and have consistently ignored them and repeated yourself.

Talking about the injured party. Pat since you've posted to this site, you've abused and attacked indymedia policy and behaviour. And you've admitted yourself that some of these arguments have been irrational and wrong. As for the seocond you've seen that indymedia editorial is short staffed and in a bit of a mess. So you can perhaps forgive us.

Secondly talking about the "wronged party". You've made an incredibly serious allegation againist Indymedia. For starts I see that you've again yet to give your evidence, so I'll assume there is none shall I? So you're making an unsubstaniated claim.

You want us to breach our editorial policy and check this fact, a request which makes this previous statement of yours drip with irony

"this is not about my politics, it could happen to anyone.

if you can identify jod you should. "

You're asking us to break a promise to statisfy your curiousity because such a person shouldn't be trusted. Essentially break your trust for me cause I say so, otherwise one of youse could leak information. Or in otherwise leak information cause I say so, otherwise someone might leak information.

I'm tired and frustrated speaking to you. It goes nowhere at all.

But for those of us just joining us I'll recap because I'm anrgy at you for the unsubstianted damage you've done to Indymedia.

1. Someone posts information on Pat on the site.

2. Pat demands that it be removed

3. Indymedia removes it.

4. Pat accuses a member of Indymedia of putting it there. I respond pointing out it could only be two people from Indymedia (Both of whom are intelligent decent people) and it could have come for a number of sources.

5. Pat demands that we expose this person, thereby abusing our own Indymedia Privacy policy. It should be pointed out that pat has consistently attacked Indymedia ireland, and has been forced to retract one of the things he said.

6. We respond, Asking him for more evidence.

5. He tells us that despite his track record he's the aggrevied party, despite the amount of unsubstanted claims he's made and the damage to Indymedia's credibility.

Pat I'm no longer addressing you or speaking to you its pointless and fruitless. You are like a 5 year old who wants everything his way. If you have such issues with Indymedia Ireland, (This is my own opinion) then go away. But don't talk about injured parties, you've wounded indymedia' credibility with claims you can't or won't support, time and time again.

you're the 5 yr old aidan

Thu Aug 29, 2002 10:20

aidan,

u r long onrhetoric but short on logic.

my details were published on indymedia. from the comments made i have reasonable grounds to suspect it was an imc person. (i've already pointed to the remarks)

jod is a danger to everyone on imc & i have every right to expect you to reveal who it is.

i've already pointed out how an anti republican bias was shown by you.

furthermore i'm not going to take anymore abuse from you.

SO KINDLY FUCK OFF

And we've

Thu Aug 29, 2002 10:33

Argued and pointed out it could have come from any number of sources.

In short you want us to breach our privacy policy for your own curiousity. Which sets an ugly precident. I'll argue againist doing it.

Pat you're a child.

aidan is illogical as uusual

Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:50

u r the one who is being infantile.

jod breached your privacy policy. once again you are trying to turn the tables.

anyone who would do what jod did is a danger to every activist & group on imc. if you can identify him, you should.

if you can't identify him, as you previously claimed then just shut up.

i notice you've gone very quiet on anti republican censorship. now let me see, who was it who deleted those articles? wonder why they didn't notice the ones by 666.

anyway, you can take the previous para as being rhetorical.

so don't go away mad; just go away.

Fri Aug 30, 2002 00:01

Please see my comment above Aidan's. I am under the impression that your details could easily have been picked up by someone. That's my take on it.

see what happens...

by red

Fri Aug 30, 2002 00:26

and you were giving out about me not using my real name on the site, this is why!

This is depressing

Fri Aug 30, 2002 02:02

Why am i still speaking to you?

Do you even read what I say before you reply?

I'm not saying we can, or can't. I'm saying we're not going to. Even if we could we wouldn't. Got it? It's a breach of privacy.

Pat I'm not antirepublican, and secondly our editorial policy is on a rotating system of covering different days. So accusing me personaly is wrong. I may not have even been monitoring the site that day. Unlike you have a life, and a job. Of course this negates your persecution complex.

I'm not going anywhere pat (where do you get these phrases you enter at rota whether they're suitable or not?)I've played a small part in something I'm passionate about. I'm not responding to your bully over this or anything else you've made whinging demands about.

And Pat I'm the one who keeps pointing out this in one in line of tedious rants you've made. I'm sick of them. It may fit your delusion to believe you're the wronged party, and somone is bending ndymedia againist you. But it's not true, and I'm tired of you dragged Indymedia into mud over none existant problems.

daithi & aidan

Fri Aug 30, 2002 14:49

daithi

sorry i was so intent on aidan that i forgot to respond. i only used my email here after my work address was put up.

i only suspect it was someone from imc because of the comments made. i realise i can't prove it if you can't identify jod.

you defended the deletion of mcmeans articles. check back on it. "666" posted a lot of anti ira articles around the same time. you couldn't have missed them.

see, once again it is you who are trying to deny reality. carry on in your delusional world.

but please go awy & stop bothering me.

ta ra now theres a good boy.

Fri Aug 30, 2002 14:50

you can have the final word if you want.

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

by Blisset

Fri Aug 30, 2002 15:44

Pat - Aidan only had dealings with McMean cos he was multiple posting articles in short space of time - Not cos of Political Issues

Dull little man

Sat Aug 31, 2002 00:25

Can't or won't?

Pat grasp this we're not going to abuse our privacy guidelines to satisfy you. It's not going to happen. Get it. Even if you hadn't run screaming to a dozen mailing listing begging for the comment to be removed we wouldn't reveal the IP address of a poster just cause you tell us to.

You're a loud dull little bully. Frankly I remember you kind of behaviour from the schoolyard, anyone you couldn't thump you'd slag, west brit, anti republician, queer..... It's a handy tag for you to depersonnalize your opposition.

Grasp thisI'm not the only member of editorial accusinf me of having a bias displays your own ignorance and your own desire to see something that isn't there

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