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London - Suspected Terrorist Incident

category international | crime and justice | news report author Wednesday May 22, 2013 19:19author by maothail lad Report this post to the editors


Source: Metropolitan Police, BBC, ITN, Sky, etc

An incident in South East London this afternoon where a man was run over and then beheaded by the two men in the vehicle. The two guys then went for the armed response unit and were shot.

I have been following this for a couple of hours as I am from South East London but now, they are saying it may be a terrorist incident. The dead man apparently was wearing a help the heroes T-shirt and is a soldier at the nearby army barracks.

Witnesses say that the attackers asked people on the street to take their pictures as they waited for police to arrive. Then they tried to attack the police.

It seems to be a politically and religiously motivated attack with one of the attackers witnessed as follows..

The man with the machete tells passersby in a broad London accent: "We apologise that women had to see this today but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government. They don't care about you."

Here is the chilling video of the terrorist calmly talking to passers-by after the incident

Warning - might be too graphic for some viewers

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-...oolwich-scene/

EDIT: ITV website down, here is the direct link to the video http://vimeo.com/66751726

author by Turingpublication date Wed May 22, 2013 19:32Report this post to the editors

Death and destruction are rained on Iraq and Afghanistan. Civilians are slaughtered. Don't be surprised when a soldier is slain on the streets of London.

author by maothail ladpublication date Wed May 22, 2013 19:36Report this post to the editors

Regardless of the goings on of british soldiers in other countries,(usually its to help out and build infracstructure,and help governments and people),this was an extremely horrfic,unessecary and barbaric act.
Are you condoning/supporting this act?You seem to show strong sympathies..

author by Omar Khayyampublication date Wed May 22, 2013 20:09Report this post to the editors

Sounds like you are condoning drones, depleted uranium, regime change ....

author by maothail ladpublication date Wed May 22, 2013 20:22Report this post to the editors

My issue is that someone would show sympathies for this act,just like people would show symathies for over 19,000 foiled terror plots since 9/11 and lets not forget the madrid bombings or 7/7 london bombing.

There is no distinction between civilian or army casualties i notice.

author by Omar Khayyampublication date Wed May 22, 2013 20:32Report this post to the editors

Most people on this site would probably prefer that grievances and differences should be resolved by discussion, negotiation and compromise. But the fact is, there is unspeakable violence and destruction going on. Where is it coming from? Who is doing most of the invading, bombing and slaughter of innocents?

author by davepublication date Wed May 22, 2013 21:18Report this post to the editors

What about the car bombs in iraq recently over elections,done by another group of mulsims are you gonna say that was the british soldiers too?

Look i dont condone any attacks on either side to be honest.Whether it is drones or whatnot.

But you seem to be defending the actions of two lunatic islamists,do you also defend the bombing of british civilians?

author by Omar Khayyampublication date Wed May 22, 2013 21:44Report this post to the editors

"Most people on this site would probably prefer that grievances and differences should be resolved by discussion, negotiation and compromise."
- myself included. But who is sending out their armies, warplanes, drones, depleted uranium ... into other peoples' countries, day after day, night after night, year after year, raining down death and destruction on innocent people on an unimaginable scale? Wouldn't it be better if they just stayed at home to mind their own business? Who started all this?

author by maothail ladpublication date Wed May 22, 2013 22:34Report this post to the editors

so basically you are saying this is justified retaliation for iraq/aftghanistan.I notice no differentiation is made between civilians and army.

do you also support killing of civilians too?

author by davepublication date Wed May 22, 2013 22:36Report this post to the editors

you still never answered the question: do you also support the killing of civilians on 7/7,is this also a case of ''chickens coming home to roost''.

author by Turingpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 01:20Report this post to the editors

I don't support the killing of that soldier and I certainly don't condone the 7/7 bombings. But they didn't happen in a vacuum. Those who support the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan bear responsibility for those deaths in London.

I don't support Islamists, I support their secular opponents. But in Iraq a secular state was destroyed. In Afghanistan what has been achieved? The anti Taliban government seems little better than the Taliban in its treatment of women.

The whole thing is a mess.

Some stuff from FB:

Tom Plastow
4 hours ago
'A few weeks ago, near where I grew up in Birmingham, a 75 year old Pakistani man was brutally murdered by a white man with a machete in a racist attack while he was walking home one evening from mosque. The press by and large reported this as an "unprovoked attack". There were no headlines about the men having a "christian appearance" or anything of the sort. Why is it then that when brown people have killed a white person it is a "terrorist" attack by men of "Muslim appearance"?'

- Friend of a friend, on the attack in London today.


British soldier jailed for stabbing 10-year-old Afghan boy
A British soldier has been jailed for stabbing a 10-year-old boy after getting drunk on vodka while serving in Afghanistan.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8933193/....html


mala.jpg

author by fredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 04:53Report this post to the editors

thanks for posting this news item maothail lad.

Nobody here condones murder. However here in the west we are very biased about how we report the murders committed by one side of the equation. We give no proper context. We also use the language of propaganda.

For example, when the "allies" bomb a bunch of civilians, all men are referred to as "militants". It's systematic.
Or when a lunatic kills a bunch of kids with high powered weapons, he's a lone gunman, not "a terrorist"

Years of carpet bombing and invasions of other people's countries inevitably brings "blowback". While I don't ever condone murder, I can put myself in their shoes. If your friends or relatives were dismembered by bombs raining down from above, drone strikes, or random fire from occupiers. Wouldn't you be angry?

The fact is US/UK have been occupying other people's countries and committing atrocities for a long time. I would be more surprised if there wasn't occasional revenge attacks.

None of this is really to do with religion, but the chaos has allowed fundamentalist groups to gain in strength. The interesting thing is that on the one hand, the "war on terror" was about getting rid of Al Qaeda. On the other hand, the US are giving al nusra (al Qaeda) money and arms in Syria. They did the same thing in Libya which led to the region being flooded with arms. And they support some of the same jihadists in the caucases.

Perhaps you can explain this?

The fact is you really can't trust anything imperialists say or do. And we are submerged all in a bath of their propaganda , PR and lies from a captive media from morning to night. It's hard to break free, and it's no wonder so many go along with the fake narrative on world events and geopolitics.

author by fredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 08:13Report this post to the editors

"this sickening atrocity is what we are paying the same kind of people to do in Syria"
- George Galloway tweet

author by Sympathypublication date Thu May 23, 2013 08:19Report this post to the editors

Imperialists can't be trusted!

I am only going to post to this thread once.

A man and a woman with Irish passports were beheaded in Iraq by maniacs such as these.

A young girl was shot in the head by maniacs such as these because she wants an education.

Muslims are being killed by the hundreds on a regular basis by maniacs such as these because those Muslims don't agree with the beliefs or policies of the maniacs.

The maniacs that committed this murder spoke with deep English accents they were most likely born in England, yet they spoke of things like this happening in their country. Why did they not go to "their country" and murder the maniacs that are killing their people by the hundreds the so call Muslim jihadists, who kill more Muslims than western forces.

Imperialist cant be trusted? More like maniacs that espouse this type of action can't be trusted.

People who equivocate about the death of any person in such a horrific manner cannot be trusted. We as Irish people should know better, we had terrorist organisation brutally murdering innocent civilians on this Island and coming up will all kinds of excuses why it hey did what they did.

May that man rest in peace my sympathy goes to him and his family and friends.

author by themarxistblogpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 09:31Report this post to the editors

The two Muslim terrorists are not yet identified
They were chanting Allahu Akbar
They hacked the victim with knives and a machete and eventually beheaded him
It happened in broad daylight yesterday Wednesday
They held up body parts and shouted "We swear by Allah never to stop killing you.”
They did not flee but wandered around, perhaps waiting for other soldiers to emerge from the barracks some 400 yards away
The London Police arrived after 20 minutes. The Jihadists ran towards them brandishing knives.
They were shot and injured and taken to separate hospitals and placed under heavy guard
This is the first such attack by Jihadists in a Western European capital city.

One journalist has listened very carefully to the video tape and has written down what the Jihadist said, which shows the action is rooted in the Koran. “He says, "Surat at-Tawba through...many, many ayat throughout the Qur'an that...we must fight them as they fight us..."
The Woolwich Jihadist clearly enough refers to “Surat at Tawba and that is precisely what has been left out by all of the capitalist press this morning. But it is significant.
Surat at-Tawba is the ninth chapter of the Qur'an, and according to Islamic scholars is the last one or one of the last ones to have been revealed that contain doctrinal content -- which means that it takes precedence over the others.

Some highlights:
"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." -- 9:5
"Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people and remove the fury in the believers' hearts. And Allah turns in forgiveness to whom He wills; and Allah is Knowing and Wise." -- 9:14-15
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled." -- 9:29
"O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination." -- 9:73
"O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous." -- 9:123

It is clear that this is a religious issue rooted in the religion of Islam. It is not as the pro-Islamist Stalinist Leftist try to tell us, a “normal” reaction to the war in Iraq, or the war in Afghanistan. It comes straight out of the religion/`political ideology of Islam.
The very first reaction of Bush after the 9-11 atrocity was to say, as he stood in the ashes of that atrocity, that “Islam is a religion of peace”
That will also be the answer of Cameron and the Coalition to this latest atrocity.

The Stalinist Leftists who have been in bed now for a long time with Islam will take a position of arguing that this is just a normal reaction to the wars conducted abroad by Imperialism.
In fact the Stalinist Leftists will echo and back up what the Jihadist killer told the passers-by in Woolwich, that it was a reaction to the wars against “Muslims” abroad.
So far the revisionist fake-Trotskyist group wsws has not responded!!!

It will take a new party that stands in the tradition of Marx and Trotsky, and opposed to Stalinism, to be able to call Islam what exactly it is.
In the meantime the Stalinist Leftists will continue to draw water from the Stalinist well on behalf of Islam Jihad

author by Omar Khayyampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 10:28Report this post to the editors

But who started this?

author by fredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 10:33Report this post to the editors

Sympathy said: "Why did they not go to "their country" and murder the maniacs that are killing their people by the hundreds "

eh...they did. They went to "their country" (england) and murdered a paid killer representative of the forces that are killing their people (british soldier)

I don't condone this vicious act. Neither do I condone a drone bombing that kills innocent civilians in yemen, africa or pakistan.

Why is it ok for the UK army to go to someone else's country and kill their citizens , but when they retaliate by coming to the UK and killing UK citizens, that's somehow different and so much worse.

author by themarxistblogpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 11:22Report this post to the editors

Both suspects were shot after charging police. They were taken to a hospital, one in serious condition.

“They were hacking at this poor guy. We thought they were trying to remove organs from his body in the middle of the road,” a witness, who would only give his name as James, told LBC radio.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/man-murdered-lond...svchg

Note the courage of "james", only his first name!!! The English are finished.

look at the tiny number of EDL that turned out in Woolwich Square. Again out of a population of millions some 50 to protest.

Another woman pushes a pram past the Jihadist just glancing at the butcherd corpse. Again England is finished. They have given up.

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 12:32Report this post to the editors

Its the greed of politicians that has us in this situation where we are not only having a population problem,but see the ills of mulitculturalism particularly when it comes to muslims who are the one group who refuse to integrate into larger society. I believe david cameron has a lot to answer for,as do the previous populist governments of LIB/LAB/CON..They want to cram as many people into the UK that they can.As a result of this also we have a growing homeless population,as there are very few spaces people can find to rent and live in.It is unscrupulous.More heads to tax i suppose.It is to be honest an abuse of power.

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 13:08Report this post to the editors

''You people will never be safe. Remove your government. They don’t care about you. You think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street?

When we sta rt bustin’ our guns do you think the politicians are going to die? No it’s going to be the average guy, like you, and and your children. So get rid of them.

Tell them to bring our troops back so you can all live in peace.''

I think the chatty perpatrator made some very interesting comments,he goes on to say you people will never be safe,and do you think politicians are going to be on the frontline dying etc,he has a point.

Politicians will never have to suffer the consequences they create for all of us.

The troops shouldnt be over in these countries,if the muslims want to kill each other,let them at each others throats,the army shouldnt be intervening on any level,or getting rid of the insurgents from the civilian population.

The british government has a lot to answer for.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/man-murdered-lond...xxveB

author by not requiredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 13:27Report this post to the editors

So youre saying that it is not a reaction to the army in these middle eastern countries,it is in fact a direct command from the quaran.

But didn't the guys say it was a reaction to the troops in these countries,one of the attackers stated it was retaliation for their presence in other countries?

Although ,I have read some verses from the quaran and its pretty disturbing and violent venom.

author by Updatepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 14:26Report this post to the editors

There are people in linconshire the police are searching a house there at the moment,and four arrests in connction with the beheading have been made elsewhere.

The plot thickens.

author by fredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 16:32Report this post to the editors

there are some pretty belligerent and inflammatory passages in the bible too.

there is a saying:

"the devil can quote scripture for his own devices"

The fact is, this was not primarily an act motivated by religion. The perpetrator said why he did it. It was a response to imperial invasions and atrocities committed in muslim countries.

And Felix,
you know you can be really full of it sometimes. It's the right wing imperialists that support the Al Qaeda terrorists in Syria and previously in Libya. The folks at WSWS certainly don't. They have the Syria situation well sussed.
You are deliberately spreading bull misinformation for mother Israel.

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 17:00Report this post to the editors

Fred its not really that simple. Where do buddists or indeed christians go around shouting out the name of their god when they commit a vile act?

While the bible may be full of negative stuff. There is no direct commands urging chrsitians to behead and slit the throats of the non believers in their passages.

People refer to islam as a religion,but its not just a religion,it is a total facist militant ideaology.

The leftist and liberals do not communicate this whatsoever(and i believe they fail in their social responsiblity to fully inform the public),and anybody who does communicate that fact openly is branded a ''racist'',a xenophobe,and even worse an ''islamophobe''.

I would also like to know where exactly chrisitians go around beheading and slitting throats in the name of their religion.

You seem to convienently miss that part.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 17:46Report this post to the editors

The two 'terrorists' in Woolwich, on 22 May 2013, were known to Britain’s security services before the attack.The MI5 and MI6 intelligence agencies had collected data on the suspected attackers before the incident.

In other words the 'terrorists' were being used by the security services.

The terror event in Woolwich in London may seem a little fishy to some. One of the alleged 'Moslem terrorists' can be heard saying:

    "You think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns; you think politicians are going to die?

    "No."

    "It's going to be the average guy, like you, and your children...."


It may seem strange to some that the 'terrorists' never seem to attack the top people. And, those who gain from the latest incident include:

    1. Fascist Israel, which wants to paint ALL Moslems as the enemy.

    2. David Cameron, who can now 'do a Thatcher' and appear to stand up for Britain.

    3. The military, which gains in sympathy


You can tell a lot from Fake photos -
"The political statements made by the suspect ... will provide the state and the media all the cannon fodder it needs to link anti-government rhetoric with violent terrorism." - http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/may2013/220513...k.htm - London “Terror Attack” Blamed on Anti-Government Sentiment

Lord Carlile, (who, despite the "Scottishy" sounding name is actually Jewish) a former supossedly-independent reviewer of terror laws, has said the killing should cause the Government to rethink the decision to drop the planned Communications Data Bill from the Queen's Speech, which would have extended email and internet monitoring to the security services.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 17:58Report this post to the editors


Well, one of the murderers posed to talk in front of a high-quality camera about why he did it, with (fake?) blood still on his hands:

He may genuinely have actually beheaded someone, (BUT I have my doubts on that part see below ***) but it's certainly convenient that someone with a really good camera just happened to be on the street in Woolwich just then, with their really good camera with them no less, and was also apparently willing to stand and interview a man who just butchered someone in broad daylight.

The English Defence League (a thoroughly deceptive despicable Zionist group) seemed to be the first to know about this incident and organised an immediate retaliation - precisely what the Establishment wants.

It's as if this whole charade is playing out in a theatre, carefully calculated and with pieces "just happening" to fall into the right places.

=======

***

Woolwich attack: first-person account - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/22/woolwich-first...count

Ingrid Loyau-Kennett spoke to the two men who have since been arrested over the attack. She told Conal Urqhart her story
Woolwich attack, suspect on street


    "I was sitting on the lower deck and the bus stopped. I could clearly see a body in the road and a crashed car. I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help.

    "I went over to the body where there was a lady sitting there and she said he was dead. She had comforted him by putting something under his back and a jacket over his head. I took his pulse and there was none.

    I couldn't see the man's face but I could see no evidence that suggested someone had tried to cut off his head

author by not requiredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 17:58Report this post to the editors

Next you will say 9/11 was an inside job,and that 7/7 and the boston bombings were staged attacks..

The mind boggles.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:20Report this post to the editors

crawl back under yer rock felix, yer not fooling anyone with your 3 fake personas

The giveaway was when fake "dave" mentioned several religions yet curiously never mentioned Judaism. - Pure Felix, that.

If one were to gather all the genocidal horrific passages and commandments to murder "enemies" and even "Children of enemies" from the bible, and assemble them into one book . . . oh wait . . ;someone already DID!!

It's called "The Old Testament" - or the "TANAKH" as the followers of Judaism know it.

Basically ALL the evil crap and genocidal wet dreams to be found in the bible are found in the Jewish Old Testament.

author by updatepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:27Report this post to the editors

the victim of this beheading by islamists was named as lee rigby a serving soldier who did time in cyprus.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/woolwich-lates...61516

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:32Report this post to the editors

Intelligent people have noticed that a certain supposed "radical cleric" going by the name of Anjem Choudary has been involved in the establishment of 4 (FOUR) organisations that have later been declared "Terrorist"

All of these Orgs were British-based.

Anjem Choudary is British-based also, yet despite his involvement in setting-up these Orgs , he himself has NEVER been arrested specifically in relation to the setting-up of these Orgs.

Does that not seem strangely out-of-place? If you or I kept repeatedly setting up Orgs that were then repeatedly declared "terrorist" by the British Gov't, what do you think would be the probability that you or I would remain un-arrested through all that time and for years afterward?

THAT is pretty weird in itself. THAT has led many people to suspect (correctly imo) that ANJEM CHOUDARY is in most likely to be nothing but an agent provocateur working on behalf of the British Security Forces.

Any doubts I had that the Woolwich "terrorists" were, in SOME way, security-services-connected were fully dispelled by this recent report form the Spook-infested Guardian:


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2013/may/23/woolwich...video

    "Muslim cleric, Anjem Choudray, describes one of the suspects implicated in the killing of a soldier in Woolwich, south-east London, on Wednesday.
    Choudray claims to have known the suspect, and can identify with some of the possible motivations for the killing.

    His comments come in the wake of protests from the far-right [Zio-Nazi Front-Group] English Defence League who staged a rally in response to the murder"

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:34Report this post to the editors

I would appreciate if you stop tarring my name,and calling me felix.

I never heard of felix before,you were the first person to mention the name felix,it was only incidental i didnt mention judaism.

I would like to know where to people of other religions,other than islam go around shouting out the name of their god proudly when commiting such a vile act as beheading or throat slitting.

While there may be violent verses in the bible and the torah,the followers of those religions do not shout the name of thier god when committing such acts.

Im just curious to know,as this only happens in islam,people need to question honestly and openly why this is the case.

Without being wrongfully branded and desperately accused of being ''islamophobic''.

Somebody needs to get to the bottom of this.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:40Report this post to the editors

"the victim of this beheading by islamists was named as lee rigby a serving soldier who did time in cyprus."

What beheading - as any fool can clearly see the lady quoted several posts above, by the name of Ingrid Loyau-Kennett spoke to the two men who have since been arrested over the attack.

    " I could clearly see a body in the road and a crashed car. I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help.

    "I went over to the body where there was a lady sitting there and she said he was dead. She had comforted him by putting something under his back and a jacket over his head. I took his pulse and there was none.

    I couldn't see the man's face but I could see no evidence that suggested someone had tried to cut off his head


YOU don't get to ignore that.

SHE was there.

YOU were not.

SHE saw the body.

YOU did not.

SHE says there was "no evidence that suggested someone had tried to cut off his head"

YOU don't get to ignore that.

YOU don't get to pretend that SHE never said what she said.

author by not requiredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:40Report this post to the editors

How about the boston bombings?Or 7/7?Would you also be of the belief that 9/11 was an inside job,and the jews?well they just took the day off work to miss the big hollywood show of two planes hitting the towers.

You need to get a grip on reality.To even suggest the blood was fake,what was it then,cornsauce perhaps??

To validate these theories,makes me question your mental state of mind,you are strenously in denial.

'' ANJEM CHOUDARY is in most likely to be nothing but an agent provocateur working on behalf of the British Security Forces.''

To further suggest that anjem choudray is a puppet for the zio masters in the UK,is just ludicrous.

author by updatepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:47Report this post to the editors

''I couldn't see the man's face but I could see no evidence that suggested someone had tried to cut off his head''

So what do you suggest happened? The blood was fake,the two were agent provocateur puppets?

All i can see is someone who has their head buried deep in the sand..You know there is a danger in that.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:52Report this post to the editors

" While there may be violent verses in the bible and the torah,the followers of those religions do not shout the name of thier god when committing such acts."

Many many people have been killed in for example Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine.

Killed by Christians and Jews, (and others obviously)

Were YOU there when all those people were killed by Christians and Jews, (and others obviously) to confirm that the Christian/Jewish Killers did not utter some prayer to their God while killing?

No.

You are just doing what you always do Felix

You're pointing at Islam and claiming it is UNIQUELY violent, while blatantly ignoring all the violence in the Bible, The Old Testament (Jewish TANAKH) Torah, Talmud etc etc.

You're a born liar Felix - all the above mentioned "Holy" books ALL have astoundingly violent passages and commands to kill and murder in them.

You are only concentrating on Islam because that is what you always do - you clearly hate muslims a great deal and would love to see violent attacks on Muslims.

Your claims that Muslims are somehow uniquely violent is proven false by just looking at the FACT that the West and Israel have been invading Muslim countries for decades now.

As far as I know there are NO Muslim Countries that have launched illegal wars on Christian countries in the last fewg decades. As far as I know NO Muslim State is currently occupying another Christian or Jewish State - while Several Christian states and One Jewish State currently have Military occupation Forces stationed on land which is not there, which in fact belongs to Muslims. And those forces have have killed a LOT of Muslims.

At the absolute minimum, you are a blatant hate-mongering liar and a hypocrite, Felix.

But none of that exists in the weird loony hafe-fuelled racist world you have constricted in that pitiful brain of yours.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:56Report this post to the editors

"Several Christian states and One Jewish State currently have Military occupation Forces stationed on land which is not there"

should read

Several Christian states and One Jewish State currently have Military occupation Forces stationed on land which is not theirs

obviously

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 18:57Report this post to the editors

So point out where jews are stoning people to death or beheading in the name of their god,point out where christians are specifically doing these acts also in the name of thier god.

Point out wher buddists are doing this soley in the name of their god.

You cant.Your arguments are invalid,and quite borderline hysterical adding personal attacks also.

Do you also believe this was a hoax,maybe 9/11,7/7,and anjem choudray etc are all part of the zio master plan?

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 19:11Report this post to the editors

Yeah cos murdering men women and children form afar with missiles and burning them and their children to death with White Phosphorus is so wonderfully civilised and Un-Violent, and poisoning them, their children and their children's children with "Depleted" Urainum, like those lovely Christian and Jewish nations do, is SO UNIQUELY NON-VIOLENT isn't it "dave"?

What a dickhead

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 19:27Report this post to the editors

Operation Gladio is undisputed historical fact. Gladio was part of a post-World War II program set up by the CIA and NATO supposedly to thwart future Soviet/communist invasions or influence in Italy and Western Europe. In fact, it became a state-sponsored right-wing terrorist network, involved in false flag operations and the subversion of democracy.

The existence of Gladio was confirmed and admitted by the Italian government in 1990, after a judge, Felice Casson, discovered the network in the course of his investigations into right-wing terrorism. Italian prime minister Giulio Andreotti admitted Gladio’s existence but tried to minimize its significance.

The main function of the Gladio-style groups, in the absence of Soviet invasion, seems to have been to discredit left-wing groups and politicians through the use of “the strategy of tension,” including false-flag terrorism.

The "strategy of tension" is a concept for control and manipulation of public opinion through the use of fear, propaganda, agents provacateurs, terrorism, etc. The aim was to instill fear into the populace while framing communist and left-wing political opponents for terrorist atrocities.

In more recent times one need only substitute "Muslims" for "communist" and "left-wing".

    ..................................................................................................

    “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.” - http://web.archive.org/web/20051130003012/http://www.is...s.htm

    .................................................................................................


Similar Gladio-like operations were subsequently discovered across Europe, and confirmed in France, Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, Norway, Germany, Switzerland

Non-psychopaths may want to watch this BBC special about “Operation Gladio” to learn more (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHXjO8wHsA)

Caption: Operation Gladio - Full 1992 documentary BBC


Related Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHXjO8wHsA
author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 19:33Report this post to the editors

So are you justifying the actions of those two lunatics and the fact they hacked to death and beheaded a man on wednesday?

I would also like to ask you,do you also condone attacks on civilians,and justify it by saying oh well government involvement in other countries makes these attacks such as 7/7 and the recent beheading justifiable in your eyes?

Or do you deny this attack occured,do you think it was a complete hoax.?

author by not requiredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 19:45Report this post to the editors

The whole false flag attack is YOUR wet dream,its filled with zio serving nasty puppets such as anjem choudray and the two nigerian born islamist attackers of this serving soldier.

Are you saying that this beheading was too a false flag operation? Perhaps cameron is pleased and can now do a 'thatcher' and appear to be standing up for britian?

So now we can all applaud and fell safe in our islamist ''extremist'' drenched communities..

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 19:47Report this post to the editors

So are you justifying the actions of those two lunatics and the fact they hacked to death and beheaded a man on wednesday?

I never "justified" anything

perhaps you hallucinated that bit where I supposedly "justified" something?

I pointed out that an independent eye-witness stated she never saw any evidence that anyone had made any attempt to behead anyone else.

And SHE saw the body real close-up

And you seem very unwilling to acknowledge that.

In fact you're chanting "beheaded" like some religious zealot working himself up into a frenzy

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 19:49Report this post to the editors

So now we can all applaud and fell safe in our islamist ''extremist'' drenched communities..

WHAT " islamist ''extremist'' drenched communities" are you talking about, you silly man?

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 19:54Report this post to the editors

I would also like to ask you,do you also condone attacks on civilians,and justify it by saying oh well government involvement in other countries makes these attacks such as 7/7 and the recent beheading justifiable in your eyes?

You should learn to read. and then try comprehend what was written.

I wrote what I wrote and there's not a ounce of "condoning" of anything of the sort in anything I wrote.

Do you just make up any old crap you like and deliberately ms-attribute it to random innocent people, in hate-filled rants on the net?

Cos tbh, that's what it looks like so far.

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 19:58Report this post to the editors

First off,in your reply to when i ask do you also condone the killing of innocents,you blame christians and jews for the soldiers in iraq and aftghanistan,if anybody is chanting themselves into a frenzy it is YOU.

Im not a religious zealot of any kind,so you can stick your assumptions where the sun don't shine.

Your denial that this was a beheading is a little extreme,and im beginning to doubt your mental stability in any case.

You then go on to explain away anjem choudrays existence as zio puppet serving the masters of the UK as some sort of agent provcoateur intent on bringing the name of islam down to a further new low.

You have even said that the blood on the attackers hands might be fake,if anybody has his heads in the clouds or is smoking something it is you.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 20:56Report this post to the editors

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/woolwich-lates...-live

    3.01pm BST Louise, 26, from Romford, who said that she knew Michael Adebolajo and his brother from Marshalls Park school.
    She said that Michael went by the nickname "Naan" and was two years older than her.

    She said that Adebolajo's mother was strict and a regular churchgoer who dressed in traditional west African clothes most Sundays.

    “They were strong on their beliefs," said Louise.


Their CHRISTIAN Beliefs.

Maybe he got the urge from reading the Jewish Tanakh/Christian Old Testament?

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 21:14Report this post to the editors

Micheal Adebolajo was a convert to the religion of islam he converted in the year of 2003,thats about ten years.
Thats plenty of time for him to become heavily indoctrinated with the direct violent commands in the quaran.

The difference between christianity,judaism,even buddism(and today they are fairly benign in their nature) is that they are not total fascist militant ideaologies,with direct commands,whereas islam is a total miliatant fascist ideaology,which is intent on changing the political structure of britain,and indeed any country that plays host to them.

author by not requiredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 21:18Report this post to the editors

So let me get this straight,you are stating that the beheading never happened,some suggestions also it maybe a hoax,and that the blood on the perpatrators hands maybe fake.?

And as of now you are saying he wasn't a muslim. Denial much?

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 21:43Report this post to the editors

Fake Dave said : "whereas islam is a total miliatant fascist ideaology,which is intent on changing the political structure of britain,and indeed any country that plays host to them.

110 % Pure Felix Quigley GUBU-Bullshit - it's pedal-to-the-metal with for yer olud insanity-fuelled hate-motor tonight Felix, eh?

Earlier fake-"dave"/Felix swore blind he wasn't Felix - pretended not to have ever even have heard of such a thing as a "Felix":

    I would appreciate if you stop tarring my name,and calling me felix.

    I never heard of felix before,you were the first person to mention the name felix,it was only incidental i didnt mention judaism.


Total loon

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 21:50Report this post to the editors

If anybody is smoking something it is you!

Previously you have stated you think that the whole london beheading incident is a hoax,and question the blood on the pepatrators hands as fake..

You even go on to say anjem choudray is a zio master puppet furthering the british governments agenda.

So maybe they can set the scene for cameron to look good in his fight against terror.

Btw i have notice the mods aren't exaclty quick to take down the insults you have been throwing around,what is it they say in indymedia,play the game not the player..?

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 21:59Report this post to the editors

"play the game not the player..?"

yet another favourite of the Zio-Nazi felix Quigley

all the while hurling out insult after insult himself. 100% complete hypocrite as usual.

Well done Felix - you excel in complete ridiculousness each time you post here.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 22:03Report this post to the editors

Choudary, along with Omar Bakri Muhammad, led the Islamic organization al-Muhajiroun. The group was proscribed under the UK Terrorism Act 2000 along with Islam4UK, another group led by Choudary.

Prior to the July 7, 2005 bombings in London, Bakri admitted to journalist Ron Suskind that he worked for British intelligence. - http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=aspring2...rmant

Prior to the Suskind revelation, Roland Jacquard, a French counterterrorism expert and government adviser, said that “every al-Qaeda operative recently arrested or identified in Europe had come into contact with Bakri at some time or other.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Thu May 23, 2013 22:05Report this post to the editors

http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/muslim-connected...5687/

Bakri’s background is similar to another British intelligence plant, Abu Hamza al-Masri. The London-based imam worked with two branches of the British security services, the Special Branch of the British police and MI5, beginning in 1997.

Another radical Muslim imam, Abu Qatada, began cooperating with MI5 agents in 1996. Qatada was allegedly on al-Qaeda’s fatwa committee and videos of his sermons were discovered in suspected 9/11 hikacker Mohamed Atta’s Hamburg apartment. Richard Reid and Zacarias Moussaoui were reportedly Abu Qatada converts.

Anjem Choudary’s shady connection to radical Muslims linked to British intelligence reveal that his commentary on the murder may be part of a larger script. It likely includes further enlargement of Britain’s terror laws which are invariably expanded after sensationalistic attacks. The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 was introduced after the September 11 attacks in the United States and the Terrorism Act 2006 was enacted after the London bombings. British citizens should expect additional legislation rolling back their civil liberties following the latest incident.

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 22:19Report this post to the editors

So now you are coming out saying anjem choudray is a puppet based on distorted information are you trying to create hysteria amongst the delusional like yourself.

I can make it easier for you , just attribute the word ''hoax'' , ''zio puppet'' and ''inside job'' in relation to the next terrorist incident lol.

Your paranoid ramblings are amusing,i am intrigued,maybe i can subscribe to your newsletter.

author by Damien M - PWpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 22:38Report this post to the editors

From what I seen of it, the guy spoke pretty eloquently with ahem.. a meat cleaver in hand, in fact it seemed a pretty passionate/impassioned plea from a Muslim on behalf of his fellow Muslim mates in Muslim countries, who just want to be left alone i.e. no drone bombings, no carpet bombing of women and children , no wanton slaughter .

And certainly no cowardly stabbing like this disgrace, which the right-wing UK media hasn't mentioned, except to saturate news coverage about how the poor soldier was 'a nice lad', 'good to his mum and sisters', etc and the usual hero lauding.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/02/british-soldie...n-boy

"Grenadier Guardsman Daniel Crook was suffering from a hangover after a heavy vodka drinking session when he bayoneted the boy".
As you do.

author by davepublication date Thu May 23, 2013 22:55Report this post to the editors

What about the act of running a man over before closing in to hack him up and behad him, using a car first to render him injured and helpless ,then finishing the kill?

Is that not also the act of cowards.?

Btw i would just like to clarify i think all killing is wrong. Any muslims who think killing a non muslim is not a crime or any non muslim who think killing a muslim is not a crime,is also faulty in their thinking.

We should all be concerned about any act of terrorism.

author by not requiredpublication date Thu May 23, 2013 23:02Report this post to the editors

More like leftist neo liberals,that will do or say anything to appease the now sacrosanct church of multicult.

RTE gave full coverage of fake muslim outrage at the atrocity on wednesday in wollwich. Drowing out any soundbites in relation to the victim and his obviously distressed family. All the soundbites in RTE seem to be fully and decidedly concentrated on fake muslim outrage not on the victim or his family.

Of course they are going to 'condemn' these attacks in public,these are people who don't want to lose their jobs,and standing as community imams.

BBC also gave full media platform to anjem choudary,they wouldnt have even give UKIP the same amount of airtime..

author by themarxistblogpublication date Fri May 24, 2013 09:14Report this post to the editors

It is interesting to focus on the Tory Multiculturalist Boris Johnson in his studied statement on arriving at the scene of the open beheading on London streets...reminiscent of Bush on 9-11

QUOTE…‘One obvious point, it is completely wrong to blame this killing on Islam but also wrong to draw a link between this murder and British foreign policy,’ Mr Johnson said

Eh what! How does he manage that you may ask? That hardly stands up to any normal thinking English person. As I pointed out yesterday the killer referred specifically to a central chapter in the Koran in his remarks which he had clearly pondered on before killing the soldier. And at the same time he followed up that reference to an important chapter in the Koran by dealing with the present political situation re Afghanistan, with probably Israel and the Palestinian Arabs high in his thinking as well.

So the guy refers to Islam and then deals with the British policy abroad.

Is Johnson mad? The guy says one thing. Johnson disregards that and gives HIS interpretion. This is of course subjective idealism, and as I pointed out before on “themarxistblog” subjective idealism is often the very foundation of the modern middle class fad conspiracy thinking, which is now almost an industry.

Bush was the classic example of this subjective idealism. He was actually standing in the cinders of 9-11, speaking physically in the literal dust of the bodies of Americans, and Bush spoke immediately about Islam being a “religion of peace”.

Bush might have said something like….Now I know very well that most Muslims are peaceful, but there is something here that I do not understand. There is a contradiction.

But No…Bush went into defend the religion mode.

author by themarxistblogpublication date Fri May 24, 2013 11:32Report this post to the editors

Dave wrote

"So now you are coming out saying anjem choudray is a puppet based on distorted information are you trying to create hysteria amongst the delusional like yourself.

I can make it easier for you , just attribute the word ''hoax'' , ''zio puppet'' and ''inside job'' in relation to the next terrorist incident lol.
Your paranoid ramblings are amusing,i am intrigued,maybe i can subscribe to your newsletter"END QUOTE

Dave I do take your point on this. I do not think there has ever been such an example of subjective idealist method ever before. It is very crude

With this method a person can prove anything about anybody anywhere any time. The subjective idealist just has to THINK it. If he or she THINKS it it is so. Bishop George Berkeley in the present (see .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_idealism)

With this method Dave becomes me, even though Dave is obviously a pacifist, and I am a Marxist and opposed to the sickly pacifism of religión.

But that could be just part of the PLOT according to these feverished, middle class minds.

Workers in general do not think like this, they deal in reality and want some concrete proof.

The fact is that in Ireland there is no Marxist, Trotskyist or workers party. The "Workers Party" was a Stalinist party.

Nobody can accuse me of not having foresight. I predicted yesterday that Cameron would come out and argue that Islam was a "religion of peace" and sure as night follows day he did exactly that.

The recent article belatedly published by wsws really is a disgrace to Trotskyism and represents everything that is wrong with the so-called left. it is filled with conspiracy thinking method, but its main problem is that it provides a cover for Islam. It disregards totally that the first words of the Jiahad killer were from the Koran, and then since Islam is political he went on to talk about Muslims being oppressed by Imperialism.

There is a thousand times more truth in the words of Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer, and yes the EDL, than in these Leftist Covers for Fascist Islam that people this site, and which is the WSWS.

Geller, Bostom, Spencer, Bat Yeor, all of these face the reality of WHAT IS ISLAM_

I asked "Fred" to tell me his position towards Islam on another thread on this site and Fred declined, but in declining in his silent and underhand manner (he just ignored my request) he di then issue a comment which called for me to be banned because I am a "Fascist" according to this pro Islam guy, who cannot ever condemn Islam for what it is.

With that approach it is impossible for workers and youth to really ever learn what Islam is.

In fact think about that approach because it is very similar to the statement of Johnson and of Cameron.

These folks like "fred" and groups like the wsws are in the end the agents of te ruling class, maybe not consciously, but objectively their subjective approach leads them to keep the truth away from workers and youth.

PS The wsws is suggesting that because these killers were in the grip of the police years ago and not followed up, that means a conspiracy somewhere. In fact follow the words of Johnson and Cameron, that Islam is really really peaceful you know (no research offered of course on this score) and you will find the reason that these killers were let go. read the wsws article. It is truly disgraceful. These killers were let go by the police because the police were not taking Islam and its Jihad seriously. And they are not.

As I said a handful (50 or so) of EDL characters in Woolwich is rather little. A tiny and insignificant response. The British are a nation that has no soul left at all.

And what is the difference anyway between these killers in Woolwich and the Hamas/Fatah killers of Jews, and there is no difference at all in that the Irish Labour Party leader is calling for a Jihadist boycott of Israel, thus showing the hatred of these anti-working class leaders for the Jewish Homeland.

The Irish may be going the way of the British.

author by themarxistblogpublication date Fri May 24, 2013 11:45Report this post to the editors

see

http://gate.ahram.org.eg/News/350533.aspx

Robert Spencer of [no platform -ws] covers this event in Egypt but where are the Irish Feminists today...

QUOTEIt was discovered this Thursday evening near Luxor in Egypt that a mother and her two daughters were killed and their bodies thrown into the Nile River. The murderers? Seven male members—from their own Muslim family—who apparently had doubts about the women’s “behavior” (that’s all the Gate Ahram report indicates for motive). Amina, the 54-year-old mother and her two daughters, Sana, 28 , and Madiha, 24, were strangled by their seven male relatives “because the family doubted the behavior of the mother and her two daughters.” Before hurling them into the Nile, their male relatives tied the murdered women to heavy iron objects, to ensure that the bodies do not resurface. Police have thus far found the body of the older sister, Sana, and currently trying to find the other bodies.END QUOTE

[no platform -ws]

author by davepublication date Fri May 24, 2013 12:22Report this post to the editors

We all know why (those who are not in denial) these two men beheaded this young chap.

As you say yourself they were reciting verses of the quaran,and justifying their cause by stating british occupation of other countries was not welcomed.

The government though,can't(or won't) seem to make the link,i find this pretty disturbing tbh.

I think, like you Ireland is going the way of britain.

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Fri May 24, 2013 15:48Report this post to the editors

First and surest sign of madness must be Felix having a pretend conversation with his own sock-puppet

Fro example Dave I do take your point on this.

AND
With this method Dave becomes me, even though Dave is obviously a pacifist, and I am a Marxist and opposed to the sickly pacifism of religión.

What a complete loon this Muslim hating Zio-Nazi is.

Lots have people have done some strange things in their lives I'm sure, but few if any are ridiculous enough to think that they might be fooling people by having conversations with their sock-puppets, ones where the person and the persons sock-puppet spend the whole time agreeing with each other.

If that is not a symptom of pure lunacy I don't know what is.

Felix you really are fooling no one with your fake persona of "dave". Ain't no one but your other sock-puppets that would be fooled by that - and the level of bizzarness involved in fooling your OWN sock-puppets is beyond any scale of measure I could devise.

I suppose the idea is to pretend that there are more lunatic racist professional-haters out their than there really are.

Most people are sane and don't act like professional-muslim-haters like you do Felix, so I can see why you might feel the need to invent personas to hide your hate behind, but you might want to re-think that strategy because you don't seem to have fooled anyone posting here., other than your own sock-puppet personas, with this act of yours.

Are you always this demonstrably insane or is it just on days ending in a "Y"?

author by Felix's Wet Dreampublication date Fri May 24, 2013 17:06Report this post to the editors

Despite what the professional-Muslim-hate-mongers (and the clearly insane) would have us believe there is nothing unique about Islam when it comes to violence. Their propensity for violence is certainly no more nor less apparent to sane people than that of people who call themselves Christians or Jewish.

below for example is video evidence from French TV, shot by a French Jewish Camearman, showing clearly the boy being callously murdered.

The Cameraman was very clear when and how this footage was taken. He was very clear that the people targeting the child in such a cold-blooded psychopathic fashion, were definitely the Murder Gangs of the Judeo-Nazi state of Israel.

Despite that the Judeo-Nazis have recently claimed the usual "It's ALL lies, (made up by Anti-Semites)" and are trying to pretend that such footage as can be seen below does not even exist.

since they were so convinced that the incident never happened as witnesses stated, they actually knocked down the wall where the bullet holes could be found and examined by ballistics experts. Obviously they felt that they had something to hide.

Caption: 12 yr old child callously murdered by Jewish extremists.


author by davepublication date Fri May 24, 2013 18:36Report this post to the editors

Now you are being hysterlical felixes wet dream,i have no sock accounts,why would i bother with that.

Sorry if i made you wait a long time for my reply,it is just i had things to do,to attend to.

Getting back to the london incident,your denial that this has anything to do with islam is remarkable,considering the perpatrators made reference to allah ,and shouted proudly the name of their god in arabic, '' god is great''.. etc

I previously made the point that in christianity,judaism and buddishm,even shintou do people shout the name of their god, when committing a vile act.

This is obviously in the name of that religion islam,and the violence has deep roots in islam.

Stonings,beheadings and hangings are all done in the name of islam,to not make the connection and bury your head in the sand,plugging your ears while shouting slurs like ''zio nazi, ''racist'' and ''lunatic'', just makes you look hysterical and doesnt add weight to your argument.

Despite what you might think , im not a jew and i do not in any way further the agenda of zionism.

I am a rational and concerned citizen who lives in reality and realises the harm islam has brought to our fine countries in europe.

Look at sweden for instance ,and the recent rise in rape cases all to do with muslim immigration (and this has been proven beyond any doubt research it for yourself) and ''jihad rape''..

Some of these rapists who were caught by swedish police,the very few that were,admitted that there are direct references in the quran,which permits ''war booty''. That is rape of a non believer to further the cause of jihad.

To simply ignore all these facts,and plug your fingers in your ears and desperately call me a ''racist'' a ''muslim hater'' and a ''zio nazi'' doesnt do justice to this argument.

author by themarxistblogpublication date Sat May 25, 2013 12:06Report this post to the editors

Here is an excerpt of the article on imran firasat..

''Imran Firasat: I am going to be killed soon
(The Spanish government approves Imran Firasat´s extradition to an Islamic country)

I am going to die, or I should better say that I am going to be killed soon. The enemy who is going to kill me is not any Muslim but he is a powerful man of the Spanish government who is persecuting me nonstop since last several months and now he is going to kill me any time by abusing his diplomatic power.

Revealing the danger of radical Islam to our free and modern society has become a curse for my life. Before it were only Muslims who used to threaten me of killing but now it is the minister of interior of the Spanish government who is taking all the aggressive, unjust and unnecessary steps to eliminate me.

First he revoked my refugee status without taking in consideration my arguments in defence. Then the minister used his political influence and made the judicial authorities to prosecute me for the hate crime. But the truth was with me, that is why I won that case. Even a single hearing didn´t take place and the judge said there has been no crime committed.

The minister found no other way to persecute me in order to appease Muslims, and then today he has approved my extradition to Indonesia, the biggest Muslim population on earth which 3 years ago fabricated false murder charges against me and asked for my extradition to the Spanish authorities.''

I think the interesting thing is how far our PC governments will go to to cover up the truth on islam.

Look at the case of gert wilders and lars viks.

author by not requiredpublication date Sat May 25, 2013 12:13Report this post to the editors

Look at the case of gert wilders and lars viks?You should look at the case of lars hedegaards,it is FAR worse.

He had islamists threaten to kill him,and now has to live a life of secrecy for speaking out against the religion of the radical.

Along with the government,the media have their part to play too,and have recently tried in great vain to get his new address and PUBLISH IT in a national newspaper!

The media have shown no discretion or social responsiblity for this man to have his right to live in peace.

Here is the article below:

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-bawer/ekstra-bladet-...aard/

author by Turingpublication date Sat May 25, 2013 22:35Report this post to the editors

Full text at link.

Five Muslim community workers have accused MI5 of waging a campaign of blackmail and harassment in an attempt to recruit them as informants. The men claim they were given a choice of working for the Security Service or face detention and harassment in the UK and overseas. They have made official complaints to the police, to the body which oversees the work of the Security Service and to their local MP Frank Dobson. Now they have decided to speak publicly about their experiences in the hope that publicity will stop similar tactics being used in the future.

Intelligence gathered by informers is crucial to stopping further terror outrages, but the men's allegations raise concerns about the coercion of young Muslim men by the Security Service and the damage this does to the gathering of information in the future. Three of the men say they were detained at foreign airports on the orders of MI5 after leaving Britain on family holidays last year.

After they were sent back to the UK, they were interviewed by MI5 officers who, they say, falsely accused them of links to Islamic extremism. On each occasion the agents said they would lift the travel restrictions and threat of detention in return for their co-operation. When the men refused some of them received what they say were intimidating phone calls and threats.

Related Link: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/exclusiv....html
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