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National strategies for dealing with Ireland’s debt crisis: exploring the options

category international | anti-capitalism | press release author Monday September 26, 2011 22:56author by Iseult OSullivanauthor email iseultosullivan at gmail dot com Report this post to the editors

The Parallel Punt

Feasta http://www.feasta.org/ on the 22/23 of September and the Smart taxes network http://smarttaxes.org/ held an international conference on exploring Irelands debt crisis and a view on running a parallel currency alongside the Euro http://www.feasta.org/2011/09/17/the-parallel-punt/

The following people spoke or were in the panel at various times throughout the two day conference. I have summarised there main points to form opposing policy views.

1) Joan Burton TD (DAY 1)
Joan wanted to distinguish between honourable bankers and non traditional honourable bankers, but since both work in a dis-honourable system this would make little difference, except if the honourable had not fostered debt onto the Irish or other world’s nations. An increase in MABS (money advisory bureau) budget should be increased dramatically, and the €40 Billion Anglo promissory notes should be scrapped immediately, which would then only leave €334 billion of debt (see Richard outwait further down) left to perhaps also scrap.

2) Peter Matthews TD, Chartered Accountant & Banking & Finance Consultant
Felt we needed "balanced" austerity and sustained economic growth. Growth meaning GDP debt growth, which is how we arrived in this mess and no austerity for Peter

3) Fergal OBrien IBEC Chief Economist
Exact opposite of peter matthews, claiming austerity will inhibit world economic growth (GDP Growth) however no austerity for fergal or bankers ? "we can do austerity and we have proved that" he claims and like peter matthews does not live in the real world. Europe should combine fiscal and monetary policy (macro and micro, or dept of finance and central bank) into one so erasing further all sovereignty in Europe’s nation’s states.(i.e. no control from public) Increase mortgages and even though GVMT (public spending) contributes little to GDP spending it should be cut (i.e. harder for banks to increase debt GDP with public bodies). "Recovery” in Ireland will take to 2017 (not (2014) as Fine Gael claim. Get people spending. (as large savings in Irish households)

4) Paul Sweeney ICTU Economic Advisor
Lowering wages increases profits only not economic recovery (i.e. lower amounts of money, so lower wages mean more can be employed, (except of course hundreds of trillions for bailed out bankers, disprove this theory) GVMTs are competition pro-cyclical austerity, growth obsessed to increase privatisation and sell offs, and we have lengthened the time for recovery 3 times ..WHY?

5) Richard Douthwaite replaced by Bruce Derrel
Quoting from the debt and development co-alitions IRISH DEBT AUDIT http://www.debtireland.org/news/2011/09/14/debt-audit-g...ands/ Douthwaite states Irish Debt levels as €374 Billion (with €94 Billion being direct government debt) GVMTs are competition pro-cyclical austerity, growth obsessed. Irish oil imports are 5.5. Billion..why ? with own Oil. Issue non - debt money by the state, a new system. Growth increases with energy demand read "energy prices, the boom and bust cycle and prospects for global economic growth" (peak oil will happen) Quantative easing not worked for jobs in USA, (but proves money available for jobs if political will)

6) Karl Deteer, Irish Mortgage Brokers. Adopt a comprehensive approach to all private debt. (Presumably this means cancelling all private debt or similar)

7) Dr Constantine Gurdgiev Head of Research, St Columbanus AG & Adjunct lecturer in finance, Trinity College Dublin
Has always said debt levels are higher than were originally stated, and if he had his way he would set up a printing press in a back office in Trinity and begin printing off PUNTS to form new Irish currency.

8) Peter Brown Managing Director of the Irish Institute of Financial Trading.
EU Banks about to do UTURN and lower interest rates and begin quantative easing. People with genuine problems will get debt forgiveness but not those who are strategically defaulting? there was no explanation if Greece is strategically defaulting or how strategic defaulters arrived in their predicament, yet he implied if banks want too survive then they should wipe the slates clean. When asked a question on banking he replied "You put money into the bank, and then people take it out, to give to other people and so on” ?

9) Deirdre De Burca Former Green Party Spokesperson on EU Affairs. (DAY 2)
Prefers debt free money, How we would we cope if we withdrew from Europe? How could we import energy, the euro would be seriously effected, Climate finance (carbon credits) significantly improved by Cancun. Modern liberal democracies need tacit support of people who have consistently voted for candidates (but Lisbon Treaty vote again matter not mentioned) who are pro modern liberal democracies (but only as maybe 60 years of debt levels were hidden away) however the bailout rules in the EU were breached and Austerity is immoral. Fiscal Union is not going to happen in Europe. Blames "excesses" of free market, not actual system (and of course without fair trade or tariffs removals the free market is not free)

10) David McWilliams “Economic Commentator” (not in the room)

11) Marshall Auerback, Fellow at Economics for peace and security. Research Associate at the Levy institute and former fellow at the Roosevelt Institute.
Fiscal economics should not be mechanism for Blackmail (which they are) feels however that current systems need only adjusting as they are working well (which could imply they are working well to induce poverty around the world ?) Canada had its Alberta Government http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/socialcredit/socia...t.htm in the 1930s which worked very well, and alternative currencies are needed Marshall felt the Gold Standard was also preceded by debt levels however.

12) Dan O’Brien Irish times economic editor
Financial system failure not euro fault (as currency is separate from system and plays within it) Iceland not in Euro etc (but monetary policy was in Iceland and Europe, USA, Japan ) Bonds grossly mispricing risk and Bondholders take money from people who do not need it and give it to people who do (yet the people that do could simply take it without the middle man, not as a statist or private concern but as direct non-debt financing) USA has had Fiscal Union for most of its life and it is crippled in debt) Finland and Netherlands to leave Europe and Greece will default (to both: will Ireland)

13) Professor Ray Kinsella Michael Smurfit graduate school of business
Ireland needs referendum on bailouts and taking punt, ray Kinsella wants to exit Europe. EU Subverted its constitutional provision for bailouts (and presumably if it has stuck to its provision debt cancellation would have followed as it was meant to) ...no one however took up this very pertinent point? Says EU/ ESI, OECD & IMF believe Europe no longer viable! The Irish bank bailout has ruined sustainable recovery for decades, and the world’s economy has no alignment between the financial system and real economy) this presumes we are forced into debt on purpose.

14) Graham Barnes (moderator) and IT & currency consultant
Suggest new currency "C3" which is working well in Uraguay and Brazil http://qoin.com/achtergronden/commercial-credit-circuit....html
Suggests Ireland adopts a parallel currency to run alongside Euro based on anti-debt system (as c3 & "boon" currency) but will the euro debt (or new bretton woods sdr debt ) be conduit on top of c3 to force people to pay for future bailouts from c3 currency. The logic for this is that it is a taxable currency and taxpayers were/ are forced to bailout banks, therefore will a new anti-debt system prevent this as Ray Kinsella mentioned (eu breached its own bailout rules which forbid bailouts).Hence a ANTI--DEBT SYSTEM is macro and micro, currency and fiscal orientated.

15) Professor Charles Goodhart Professor of banking and finance, London School of British Economics
Says there is no hope and Ireland although beating Australia lost to Ireland at rugby it should not introduce a separate currency alongside the euro. ? Yet this is exactly what sterling is a separate currency alongside the euro? (British policy is under conservatives or labour or liberals "in Europe but not part of it") so advising the Irish not to adopt Punt or separate system is hypocritical to say the least? the IMF was born in London and http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seigniorage.asp#axz...soOEd the Seigniorage of Sterling (as any currency) can be copied as it seems to work, and a separate fiscal policy is exactly what Ireland needs as that is the system professor goodhart works within ?
It would only cause inflation if Ireland adopted new Punt or new parallel system, yet inflation is a problem with sterling and with any system anyway? Since the IMF states it is running out of money (although it can print money is central bank agrees) then so can any currency. Anything or anybody can be a bit of a twit.?

16) Bernard Lietaer Currency Systems expert, Research fellow at the centre for sustainable resources of the university of California, member of the club of Rome
(See no 14 Graham Barnes, Bernard spoke remotely and pointed out that between 1637 & 1929 there had been 48 massive meltdowns in Capitalism. Modelled on the Dutch Tulip speculations (on the rise and fall of there price) of the 1600s this became the model for the Bank of England and all debt bubbles ever since.

17) Professor Terrence McDonagh Economics dept NUI Galway
Default on the debt, build a new public "good" bank, leave euro, institute a job guarantee, nationalise Irelands gas and oil. Bring in Punt. "Monetary monoculture creates economic crisis in society" A clear and concise view of any nations problems

18) David Karowicz Physicist & Human Systems Ecologist
We are all doomed and it would only take 12% of our current system for mass panic in all urban centres around the world. Capitalism re-invents itself (but only by printing money out of this air into a debt bubble (see 16 above) Adopt manage risk to welfare and new Punt in MMT form. Ireland has no emergency system in place and needs to wake up as government are doing nothing and have no plan (as revealed with snow / salt and flooding problems...and of course debt problems) . Perhaps the first solution would be to remove all eugenicists and planning systems designed to cause panic in the world.

The meeting ended with Capitalism re-invents itself but only because it has a printing machine to print more money, which should be in full public control.

Related Link: http://www.feasta.org/2011/09/17/national-strategies-for-dealing-with-ireland%e2%80%99s-debt-crisis-exploring-the-options-september-22-23-2011/
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