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Iran Holocaust conference opens

category international | rights, freedoms and repression | other press author Monday December 11, 2006 12:01author by pat c Report this post to the editors

An unfortunate gathering, especially following Tehrans Holocaust cartoon competition. This is no Histography Conference; the Iranian Foreign MInister has said: The first question to be posed is: Did the Holocaust actually happen or not? No mistaking that agenda.

Conference participants include:

Australian Fredrick Toeben, jailed in Germany for incitement and insulting the memory of the dead

Frenchman Robert Faurisson, convicted in France under Holocaust denial laws

Frenchman Georges Thiel, convicted in France under Holocaust denial laws

American David Duke, a former KKK leader and white supremacist


Full story at link.

pat c

Iran Holocaust conference opens

Mr Ahmadinejad accuses Israel of trading off a "Holocaust myth". A two-day conference which says it will examine whether the Holocaust actually happened has opened in Iran. Organisers insist the event will offer a chance to discuss "questions" about the Holocaust without taboos. Several countries have condemned the conference, including Germany - where Holocaust denial is a crime.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who backs the event, has publicly questioned the scale of the Holocaust, in which six million Jews were killed. According to the Foreign Ministry in Tehran, 67 researchers from 30 countries are attending the conference in Iran, which is home to 25,000 Jews.

Related Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6167695.stm
author by refusedpublication date Mon Dec 11, 2006 15:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

“I’m bitterly disappointed,” Mr Mahameed, who studied at a British university, told The Times. He was seeking a personal audience with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian President, to tell him that denials or questioning of “such huge, monstrous horror” harmed the Palestinian cause.

Mr Mahameed lives in Israel, where he has established the Arab Institute for Holocaust Research and Education, the Arab world’s first Holocaust museum, in Nazareth. He believes that the “study, analysis and acknowledgement” of the Holocaust by Arabs is important for a durable peace between the Palestinians and Israel. “It’s not enough to curse these Holocaust deniers as foolish. We have to convince them the Holocaust did happen,” Mr Mahameed said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2497895,00.html

Related Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2497895,00.html
author by Yusufpublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 08:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'm afraid it is Pat. People are in jail for "Holocaust Denial", and "Holocaust Denial" is a very broad term much like Common Design.

I think it will be good to hear a debate in a country where it is not illegal to discuss such matters. I agree with Norman Finkelstein, Jewish historian and only survivor of a family who died in Auschwitz, when he describes the difference between the Nazi Holocause and the Holocaust Industry perpetuated to support Zionism and Israels abuse of human rights.

I recommend his book "The Holocaust Industry" to anyone willing to look at the truth of what happened in Germany.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=3

According to Jewish historians 5.1 million Jews died as a result of Nazi abuse and outright German murder but the reality of what happened and the US/Zionist generated myth of an inate Gentile hatred of Jews is purely for political and financial gain.

The Holocaust Industry. An abuse of history
The Holocaust Industry. An abuse of history

author by the dissenting voicepublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 09:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Pat c is just on his usual "islamophobic" trip and therefore cannot as a matter of principle accept anybody asking questions - especially not the mad mullahs of Iran.

However, I think you'll find that the pro-zionist secular mullahs like pat c are every bit as bad as the religious ones. No room for questions - just shut up and accept everything that you are told - MY VERSION of course. Don't try to think for yourself - I'll take care of that for you.

Of course the Iranians are pursuing their own political agenda with this conference. But at the same time their actions are exposing the double standards that exist in the "free" world.

I can if I like discuss and even dispute the Irish "Potato Holocaust" freely. How many really died ? The estimates vary a lot.
http://www.irishholocaust.org/
I never heard of anyone being put in prison for questioning the numbers that died.

I can also discuss and dispute about the Armenian Holocaust:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
[Although in Turkey I might end up in court for claiming that it did happen - Holocaust Affirmation is not always as safe as you might think !]

However, when it comes to the "Jewish Holocaust", I am forbidden to ask any questions at all but am required to religiously swallow everything that is prepared for me.

Adversarial opinons are BANNED BY LAW in many European countries.

Who is afraid of the debate and why ?
If the facts are so self-evident, why the need to impose punitive sanctions on those who try to promote adversarial opinions ?

I can understand that the Jewish Holocaust is an emotive issue - especially for Jews. But is that any reason for prohibiting dissenting opinions BY LAW ?

How is it possible that an American Jew like Norman Finkelstein can write about the "Holocaust Industry" drawing a distinction between the actual
historical events of the Nazi holocaust and "The Holocaust," a term
denoting an "ideological weapon" but a non-Jew who tries to pursue the same line of argument risks censure and even imprisonment ?
http://www.geocities.com/elethinker/RG/Finkelstein.html

Some uncomfortable questions to be answered there.

author by h8publication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Adversarial opinons are BANNED BY LAW in many European countries.
Some uncomfortable questions to be answered there.

yes and most of them by you to you by the sound of ya
Inciting religious hatred is banned in a lot of places

Why people feel the need to question the worst showing of the worlds humanity of the 19th century is odd.

the conference is flawed and doing nothing but spitting on the memory of 6 or as you say maybe 5.1million people who were worked to death and had the most horrific things done to them.

your opinion may differ but to me it defines genocide and a peoples which still quite obviously are under threat from people like the man running this fiasco

its such a shame that such people and hatred still exist

author by sick-mind freudpublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Israeli officials are denying any change in policy after comments by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in which he appears to admit that Israel has nuclear weapons.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/12/415660bc-6....html

author by Querypublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

What the hell has that got to do with this sick conference

Once again we have fools making idiotic links between Israeli wrong doing and the Holocaust, it serves no one only those who condem criticism of Israel as being anti-semitic.

Look, Israel has a secret nuclear arsenal, it ignores UN resolutions, it oppresses and occupies another nation, it murders and kills with impunity

Criticise this and stop degrading the memory of those killed in the Holocaust with this stupid posts on a thread related to the Holocaust

There is enough evidence to declare Israel an illegal state without degrading the meoroy of thos killed and supporting Holocaust denial

author by the big uglypublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

as reported in uk times

Related Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2499938,00.html
author by the dissenting voicepublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You may be missing the point.

The Holocaust - using the term to denote the "ideological weapon" rather than the historical event - is used by the Zionists as the ultimate legitimation of the Israeli state. The Zionists have traditionally defused any attempt to declare Israel an illegal state by invoking the spectre of "the Holocaust".

It is fairly clear that at least some of those whose oppose the Zionist agenda will seek to "demythologise" the Holocaust. Why should this particular historical event be immune from "revisionism". Look at the amount of "revisionist" controversies that there are about relatively obscure events (from a global perspective) in Irish history. Even the Kilmichael ambush isn't allowed to rest in peace !

Why does it surprise anyone that such a globally significant historical event is the subject of controversy ?

What I find surprising is that some people seem to consider it necessary to pass laws to ENFORCE acceptance of a certain interpretation of historical events.

author by omgpublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Simon Wiesenthal Centre has recently started a project tracking down arabs that saved jews in WW2.

given the depressing context of this thread this is worth mentioning, i dont have a link sorry, you shall have to do the work. The Schlinders list was long a lot of arabs lists were longer,as the primary belief is/was also to save a life is sacred

I commend this project and hope that it shows to jews and arabs that in times of great needs they did work together. Moderate/religious arabs did all they could, not many but still a few worth mentioning as with most other peoples of the time

According to the Koran: "Whoever saves one life, saves the entire world."
the sultan of Morocco was one and i know htat the Si Kaddour Benghabrit, the rector of the Great Mosque of Paris was another. These men, and others, were true heroes and hopefully soon will receive the recognition that they deserve

author by here you gopublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I set myself a simple goal,” he says. “To tell the story of one Arab who saved the life of one Jew.” He had in his mind a saying from the Koran: “Whoever saves one life, saves the entire world.” This passage echoes the Jewish exhortation: “If you save one life, it is as if you have saved the world.”

Interesting read, worthy of this thread

Related Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2469952_1,00.html
author by reply to the dissenting voicepublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The dissenting voice is missing the point

there is no doubt that Zionists do use the Holocaust to stifle crticisim of Israel however that should not mean that in return those who criticise Israel use the Holocaust to criticise Israel.

Subjecting the Holocaust to revisionist history is not what is happening here. Iranian leaders themselves have questioned if the Holocaust ever took place, that is not revisionist this is denial and it is wrong.

Questioning the Holocaust does nothing to support causes like the Palestinian people and human rights

author by the dissenting voicepublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 13:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Denial - according to my understanding of the English language - means stating definitively that something did not happen. Questioning whether on not something happened is exactly what it says on the tin: QUESTIONING.

Surprise surprise - it's a completely normal human activity.
It's perfectly natural to QUESTION received "truths" and to subject them to inquiry and debate and to revise one's opinion in the light of such inquiry and debate.

Some people are opposed - as a matter of principle - to any debate or inquiry into the "received truths" about the Holocaust. That's fine, they are entitled to their principles.
Some even propose that this kind of activity should be punished by means of penal sanctions.
I am not so happy about that because I would consider that to be enforcing their principles on others who may not share them. It is also elevating an opinion about an historical event into a DOGMA.

Do you think that we should force everyone who denies the "Irish potato holocaust" to spend a few years in Mountjoy ?

author by reply to the dissenting voicepublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 13:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Denial and questioning in terms of the Holocaust are one and the same thing

Even some of the harshest critics of the Israeli state have said that questioning the holocaust is the same as denail.- Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein etc

What do you beleive ?

The fact is that the holocaust happened, some 6 million Jews and millions more were murdered

Why do you need to question this? Who is in denail here

Do you deny/question what happened? Why do you want to question this? What purpose does it serve to "prove" that it was 5.1 million Jews killed not 6million?

Surely the attempted genocide of a people is not to be questioned even if 900,000 more are listed as killed, the reality here is that as long as people question the holocaust there will be denial. Denail of genocide should be wrong. Its not just the Jewish Holocaust

France recently passed laws outlawing the denail of the Armenian Holocaust by the Turks, an action that outrages turkey

Maybe you should think that such laws are the only safegaurd to the memory of those that died otherwise they just become statistics in the human "questioning" of history

author by farrightpublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 13:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It is also elevating an opinion about an historical event into a DOGMA.

You sound like you should be on the far right, wrong website maybe?

lets get this straight, The Holocaust is not an OPINION it is an undeniable fact
It is because of the far right and their actions that it has been ringfenced in law

i am sure the far right would be happy to share info with you

author by reply to dissenting voicepublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 13:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

hear hear

The Holocaust is a fact not an opinion

author by informerpublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 16:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Many Iranians must be wondering why they have the right to deny the Holocaust with impunity, but not to question their own leaders without risking jail, our correspondent says.

In recent months, newspapers have been closed, journalists jailed and students penalised for engaging in any sort of political activity in Iran.

see article attached

Related Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6172807.stm
author by pat cpublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 17:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

whenever any criticism of the Iraian Regimeis made, the usual suspects crawl out from under their rocks to defend the Mullahs. Gays being hanged? Women stoned to death? Trade unionists murdered? Journalists assassinated? Socialists being killed? None of this is any problem to the Iranian Regime fans.

So far the Mullah lovers seemed to be just a bunch of Homophobic, Misogynistic haters of freedom who opposed the Socialist dissidents who are fighting to overthrow the Iranian Theocracy. Anyone who questions the Mass Murdering Mullahs is an Islamophile.

A dissenting voice has sunk to a new low however, now if you oppose Iranian Holocaust Deniers you are an Islamophobe! That dissenting voice confirms me in my view that some of the Mullahlovers on Indy are Anti Semites.

author by Sryiannapublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 17:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Haters of Freedom?"

That sounds far to close for comfort like something the chimp in the Whitehouse might say.
I dont see anyone here giving unilateral support to the Iranian Regime despite your attampts to suggest so.

As has been said before supporting one point of view does not irrevocably imply you oppose another.

I believe the main thust here is the validity of the legal gagging of those who even try to debate the holocaust in any capacity that is deemed detrimental to Zionism.

Nobody here denied the holocaust, but a lot take exception to its hi-jacking by Pro-Israeli apologists and its constant regurgitation in the face of criticisms of Israeli conduct/policy or atrocity

author by nopepublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 17:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I believe the main thust here is the validity of the legal gagging of those who even try to debate the holocaust in any capacity that is deemed detrimental to Zionism.

Err no its actually insulting to the victims and their families not detrimental to Zionism in the slightest, it actually empowers Zionism to have muppets who actually think like that

author by the dissenting voicepublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 18:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Do not dare to criticise the fatwas of our resident secular cyber-mullahs.
Or you too will risk being branded a "hater of freedom".

Some poor simpletons living in their little secluded backwater on the edge of Europe still haven't got their heads around the distinction that Finkelstein makes between the Holocaust as an historical event and the Holocaust as an "ideological weapon".

Of course the Iranian conference is not a politically neutral exercise.
But it is hardly a surprising event given the political situation in the middle East and the iconographic status of the Holocaust in Zionist ideology.

And however bad an Iran governed by mad mullahs may be, I suspect that deep down most Iranians would prefer their current living conditions to those of their Iraqi neighbours. And as matter of REALPOLITIK that is the current political choice facing Iranians - not a choice between an oppressive theocracy and a socialist worker's paradise on earth.

author by Sryiannapublication date Tue Dec 12, 2006 18:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This is the exactly the kind of spin that is being objected to.

Questioning the right of Zionism to abuse the Holocaust in defending Israeli policy is insulting to the victims of the Holocaust?

I would have thought it more insulting for the victims to have their own brethren politicize their suffering.

But then again, being Pro-Palestinian is tantamount to goose-stepping all over their memories to a jaundiced mind like yours.

author by dangpublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Look Syriann, you are not alone

Mr Ahmadinejad accuses Israel of trading off a "Holocaust myth

You have a person who agrees with you, I think that says enough about you doesent it?

At least be proud and open about it like your friend, stop trying to hide it

Related Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6173941.stm
author by Syriannapublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sorry dang, you go right ahead and kill as many arabs as you can, sure they all deserve it, the backward, tunnel visioned terrorists.

You know racism works both ways. I never supported Iran, AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE can you not read? Or is it simply the case that your conditioned mind interprets criticism of Israel as "Nazi, jew hating, holocaust deniers"

author by pat cpublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"That sounds far to close for comfort like something the chimp in the Whitehouse might say."

Nope, if you do a search you will see that I support the Palestinians in their war against Zionist Imperialism. I was called an anti-semite because I supported the military actions of the Palestinian guerillas which the Israelis used as an excuse to reinvade Gaza.

I have also made it clear that I oppose any US/UK/Israeli aggression against Iran. I do however support the Iranian Resistance and I believe that the Islamo-Fascist Regime in Tehran must only be overthrown by internal action.. Do another search and you will finf my postings of articles by and about the Worker-communist Party of Iran and the Worker-communist Party of Iraq.

"I dont see anyone here giving unilateral support to the Iranian Regime despite your attampts to suggest so. "

Again I suggest you do a third search and you will see that whenever anyone makes a serious criticism of the Iranian Regime they are accused of being Islamophobic. Even Iranian Socialist Feminists have been called Islamophobes by Irish Iran Fans.

author by dangpublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Questioning the right of Zionism to abuse the Holocaust in defending Israeli policy

The above equates to: Mr Ahmadinejad accuses Israel of trading off a "Holocaust myth

Look Syrianna, we all dont hate like you do, the only conditioned mind here is your prejudice, your response says it all, you automatically attack and say:

Sorry dang, you go right ahead and kill as many arabs as you can, sure they all deserve it, the backward, tunnel visioned terrorists.

Syrianna, we all dont think in the way you do, i am sure there are people who are in your opposite camp with the hatred and rascism , ignorance that you display but not here, not today

conditioned mind interprets criticism of Israel as "Nazi, jew hating, holocaust deniers

Thats one of the main topice there in Iran today im sure, god dammit you are missing out on discussing how Israel trades off the holocaust Myth

go now and discuss, quickly with the leader of the democratic republic of Iran, the next leader of the closed world

author by pat cpublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"And however bad an Iran governed by mad mullahs may be, I suspect that deep down most Iranians would prefer their current living conditions to those of their Iraqi neighbours."

Its not an either or choice. But for women, gays, militant trade unionists theres not much of a difference at the moment.

"And as matter of REALPOLITIK that is the current political choice facing Iranians - not a choice between an oppressive theocracy and a socialist worker's paradise on earth."

No its not, there is another possibility: the overthrow of the Islamo-Fascist Regime by the iranian Opposition. Something thats obviously not desired by you.

Two sides of one coin

On the one hand, we are faced with US-led militarism. Iraq is a model for what the USA represents for the 21st century. No claims of weapons of mass destruction, liberation from dictatorship, a defence of rights and a war on terror can conceal its real nature. In

Iraq, it is stripped naked and bare. But that is only one part of 21st century reality. The other pole of international terrorism in the world today - political Islam - is no better. It hangs the likes of sweet 16 year old Atefeh Rajabi for 'acts incompatible with chastity', stones Maryam Ayoubi for adultery, throws acid in the faces of those who refuse to veil, and places bombs on buses and in trains in crowded city centres. While this movement makes many claims as the USA does in order to legitimise its barbarity -from people's liberation, resistance, to rights - they are only claims to dupe and legitimise. It cares as much for the liberation of the people of Palestine and Iraq as the USA does - not more, not less.

For you and me, in practical terms - notwithstanding the differences - the USA and political Islam are two sides of one coin. They have the same agenda, the same vision, the same infinite capacity for violence, the same reliance on religion and reaction, the same need for hegemony and profitmaking. They represent the same new bleak world order for 21st century humanity. They would both turn this world into another Iraq if they could.

Maryam Namazie
Worker-communist Party of Iran


Full article and additional information at:
http://www.thirdcamp.com/note/515main.php

Heres an example of racism and anti-immigrant activities carried out by the Iranian Regime.

Protest against Iranian regime's fascistic attacks against Afghan workers and refugees!

The Islamic Republic of Iran has recently stepped up its attacks and pressure on refugees from Afghanistan. In its latest offensive, the most fascistic forms of humiliation and anti-Afghan propaganda are being propagated by the regime’s media. A vast force of trained military police has been hired to identify Afghan workers, wherever they are, and arrest and detain them. They are then driven to Afghanistan’s borders on a daily basis and left to fend for themselves in a war-torn no man’s land. Even those with legal permission to stay, are severely under pressure to leave Iran. Children are being dismissed from schools.

Their parents are being forced to pay heavy tuitions. In recent weeks, a gathering of Afghan families in Mashad who were protesting the tuition fees by gathering in front of the UN office were attacked. A number of men, women and children were severely beaten, with United Nations officials bearing witness to the attacks. Moreover, Afghan workers are fired from workplaces and factories and are immediately arrested.

International Labour Solidarity Committee of the Worker-communist Party of Iran

Co-ordinator: Shahla Daneshfar (shahla_daneshfar@yahoo.com)

Public Relations: Bahram Soroush (b.soroush@ukonline.co.uk)


http://www.kargaran.org/international%20labor%20solidar...1.htm

Yes, the Iranian Regime is Misogynistic, Homophobic, Anti-Semitic, Racist. It truly deserves the title Fascist.

author by the dissenting voicepublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 16:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ah yes the ever-elusive other possibility beyond the simple either-or.
Pat c as a wannabe "third positionist" !

"there is another possibility: the overthrow of the Islamo-Fascist Regime by the iranian Opposition. Something thats obviously not desired by you."

Thanks for looking into your heart and seeing what I desire for the people of Iran.
[I just hope that gay rights are as high up on their list of priorities as you seem to think.]

Well let's hope that the "the overthrow of the Islamo-Fascist Regime by the iranian Opposition" of which you dream is a tad more successful that the overthrow of the brutal Sadaamite Baathist-Nazi-Regime by the Iraqi Opposition.

Oh if only those peky Americans and their British accomplices hadn't interfered.

Well I'm sure if you ask them nicely (and don't forget to send a confirmation copy to Tel Aviv), they'll keep out of Iran just out of deference to you and break with a long tradition of interfering in the internal politics of that country (going back at least as far as Operation Ajax which toppled Mossadegh).

Dream on pat c. Your geopolitical naivety is astounding.
No wonder the Irish left is so politically impotent.
One thing's for sure: we'll be waiting a long time for the overthrow of the FF-PD Regime by the
Irish Opposition.

Mad mullah Micky McD is quaking in his boots at ye !

author by pat cpublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 16:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Thanks for looking into your heart and seeing what I desire for the people of Iran."

No just looking at the positions of the WPI and the International Third Camp.

"[I just hope that gay rights are as high up on their list of priorities as you seem to think.]"

Well just visit the links I provided and you will see that they take gay rights very seriously.

"Well let's hope that the "the overthrow of the Islamo-Fascist Regime by the iranian Opposition" of which you dream is a tad more successful that the overthrow of the brutal Sadaamite Baathist-Nazi-Regime by the Iraqi Opposition."

Well in this case the opposition is largely led by secular socialists who dont believe in totalitarianism.

"Oh if only those peky Americans and their British accomplices hadn't interfered."

The Third Camp make it clear that they also see the US/UK/Israel as the real axis of evil.

"Dream on pat c. Your geopolitical naivety is astounding.
No wonder the Irish left is so politically impotent."

I think I am more clued in to whats happening in Iran than you are. You really dont seem to know much about the Iranian opposition. I suggest you visit the sites I indicated and heres a few more. What have you got to lose, you might learn something.

International Campaign in Defense of Women’s Rights in Iran
http://www.irandwr.org/english/index.htm

Federation of Workers’ Councils and Unions in Iraq
http://www.uuiraq.org/

The Left Worker-communist Party of Iraq
http://www.socialismnow.org/index1.html

Organisation of Women's Freedom in Iraq
http://www.equalityiniraq.com/english.htm

Maryam Namazie, Director of the Worker-communist Party of Iran's International Relations Committee
http://www.maryamnamazie.com/

author by Syriannapublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 18:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"That sounds far to close for comfort like something the chimp in the Whitehouse might say!”
“Nope, if you do a search you will see that I support the Palestinians in their war against Zionist Imperialism. I was called an anti-semite because I supported the military actions of the Palestinian guerillas which the Israelis used as an excuse to reinvade Gaza”.

Actually Pat “Haters of Freedom” is exactly something B*sh would say, but you use it rather inexplicably as a platform to inform all you are anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian.

I also stated that no-here supported the Iran regime. I was responding to accusations of being an Ahmadinejad supporter for daring to comment of Zionist use of the holocaust as a default defence against criticising Israeli conduct in the M east which was responded to thusly;

“Again I suggest you do a third search and you will see that whenever anyone makes a serious criticism of the Iranian Regime they are accused of being Islamophobic. Even Iranian Socialist Feminists have been called Islamophobes by Irish Iran Fans”.

In the context of the thread, this is just non-sense, methinks you have your own axe to grind and are voicing your opinion regardless.

I have also stated previously, that I am not a holocaust denier, I KNOW it happened, again for the record, I don’t support Iranian mullahs or any other authoritarian regime.

I do oppose US/UK/Isreali aggression and the needless slaughter of the innocents.
I also support an internal coup (non US funded/co-ordinated) to overthrow the Mullahs.
And lastlty I am against the automatic labeling of individuals who DISCUSS the holocaust or Israeli barbarity as “Nazi, jew hating, holocaust deniers”

So it would seem, Pat we have more in common than not.

author by pat cpublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 18:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Actually Pat “Haters of Freedom” is exactly something B*sh would say, but you use it rather inexplicably as a platform to inform all you are anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian."

Well thats your opinion. Bush is not the only one who is allowed to use that expression.

"I also stated that no-here supported the Iran regime. I was responding to accusations of being an Ahmadinejad supporter for daring to comment of Zionist use of the holocaust as a default defence against criticising Israeli conduct in the M east which was responded to thusly;"

Fine for you. I accept that you dont support the Regime. But there are people who post on Indymedia who support it uncritically. If there is even a mention of womens rights in Iran they scream Islamophobe.

"“Again I suggest you do a third search and you will see that whenever anyone makes a serious criticism of the Iranian Regime they are accused of being Islamophobic. Even Iranian Socialist Feminists have been called Islamophobes by Irish Iran Fans”.

In the context of the thread, this is just non-sense, methinks you have your own axe to grind and are voicing your opinion regardless."

No it is not, it illustrates just how reactionary some are in theiir support for the Iranian Regime. The only axe I have to grind is on behalf of the WPI and the other organisations that I have mentioned and supplied links to their sites. I make no apologies for supporting Iranian Communists and Socialist-Feminists. Take that as an opinion if you will. ;)

Anyway, its obvious that you are not ignorant about Iran but you can always learn more. So why not check out the sites. If you know of other relevant sites then I would be eager to visit them.

"I have also stated previously, that I am not a holocaust denier, I KNOW it happened, again for the record, I don’t support Iranian mullahs or any other authoritarian regime.

So it would seem, Pat we have more in common than not."

We certainly do. Syriana was also a very good film.

author by pat cpublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 19:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In the latest developments Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has told a conference in Tehran questioning the Holocaust that:
"Just as the USSR disappeared, soon the Zionist regime will disappear".

The BBC's Frances Harrison in Tehran said the conference was like a roll call of the world's most infamous Holocaust deniers - all delighted that Iran had given them the oxygen of publicity.

Ms Harrison went on to say: Many Iranians must be wondering why they have the right to deny the Holocaust with impunity, but not to question their own leaders without risking jail. In recent months, newspapers have been closed, journalists jailed and students penalised for engaging in any sort of political activity in Iran.

Full story at link.

Related Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6173941.stm
author by iosafpublication date Wed Dec 13, 2006 21:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ahmadinejad is one of the most astute & capable leaders to have emerged on the global stage since Bush 2 came to power & the so called "war on terror" began.
& I put it very nicely too. I wrote :-
He has got the west by the psychic pubes.

So of course we all have the right to criticise zionists. & of course we all agree that Holocaust denial is wrong. But seeing Ahmadinejad shaking hands with the "extreme pacifist non state supporting" rabbis really reminded of where the West keeps it pubes. It's only been a day since Pinochet was buried and the neo-nazi youth of Chile gave fascist salutes over his coffin. I really hope the West allows mr Ahmadinejad sort out Iraq pretty sharpish so we can all go back to our cosy & comfortable rights & wrongs .

some non-zionist but orthodox rabbis at the conference.
some non-zionist but orthodox rabbis at the conference.

author by liespublication date Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ahmadinejad is one of the most astute & capable leaders to have emerged on the global stage since Bush 2 came to power & the so called "war on terror" began.

Yes hes very astute on the Jew hating front thats for sure, capable of dropping a nuclear bomb on Israel once he gets one? I think so........yes very astute and capable.......On one hand you praise him and then try to excuse your sorry mind saying everyone can criticise zionists but holocaust denial is wrong
you support a bigoted rascist more at home with leaders of the KKK and the far right

snap out of it

author by pat cpublication date Sat Dec 16, 2006 16:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Some more reporting by Frances Harrison. You can find the full article at the link.

Eventually I found one of the movers and shakers behind the conference - a friend of President Ahmedinejad and asked him why there was freedom of speech to deny the Holocaust but not to criticise the Iranian government. He told me there was complete freedom but the Western media was in the pocket of the Zionists and sent spies to undermine Iran's national security.

Presumably he meant all the students, bloggers, journalists and human rights lawyers who've been jailed here are Zionist spies. Then he went on to say that the very presence of a BBC correspondent in Iran proved there was freedom of speech. Another twisted logic.

But when all the delegates were taken to see President Ahmedinejad for a mutual admiration session, the BBC, unlike other foreign media, was excluded from covering it. So much for Iranian freedom of speech.


Related Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6183061.stm
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