Cork solidarity with the people of Lebanon and Palestine

by Belfast AWI Wed Aug 09, 2006 01:23

Leaflet distribution in favour of workers' action against, and general boycott of, Israeli goods will take place on Thursday 10th of August between 5 and 6pm at the bottom of Castle St. in Belfast.
Anyone requiring stickers or posters should contact Anti-War Ireland or any of the
individuals handing out leaflets.

All help welcome!

by Ali Wed Aug 09, 2006 01:22

The Israelis are the worst Genociders in history.
The population growth rate in both Gaza and the West Bank is among the highest on the planet.
Screams of "genocide" are merely hyperbole.
Using the word in this manner lessens the reality of the term.
If Israel is "genocidal" then what would you call what happened to the Armenians, Cambodians, and what is currently going on in Darfur?

by Nora Cambell - Anti-War Ireland Wed Aug 09, 2006 00:28

The Los Angeles Times has just revealed that U.S. forces committed far more massacres during the Vietnam War than has ever been publicly acknowledged. A once secret Pentagon task force determined that every army division that operated in Vietnam committed war crimes. The paper uncovered official government documents that detail 320 incidents of Vietnam war atrocities that were confirmed by army investigators.

by TD - IPSC Wed Aug 09, 2006 00:09

In central America, in the 1980s, Ronald Reagan's arming and training of gangster-armies saw off 300,000 people; in Guatemala, this was described by the UN as genocide. No word of this is uttered in the Grotto (National Museum of American History in the Smithsonian Institute or Santa's Grotto as John Pilger calls it). Indeed, thanks to such displays, Americans can venerate war, comforted by the crimes of others and knowing nothing about their own. (extract from John Pilgers Znet article, see link)

by David L - IPSC (personal capacity) Tue Aug 08, 2006 21:02

There's several problems with comparing what Israel is doing with what the Nazis did.

1. The glaring one. It's not comparable. Israel, like other colonial states, has engaged in ethnic cleansing, massacres and oppression - but not genocide. There is a difference between the callous murder of thousands and the planned murder of millions. Ignoring the difference makes one both seem ignorant and shrill - like the drunk in the bar who is losing the argument and calls their opponant a nazi

2. Bringing up the Nazi comparison enables pro-Israelis to muddy the water by screaming antisemitism (as we've seen) and claiming that as Israel clearly isn't like Nazi Germany, then we've no right to criticise them. Basically, they can use this defence until Israel has killed six million Palestinians, Lebanese, etc. Best not dig a trap for oneself.

3. Ignoring the real comparisons - to other nasty little militaristic states with racial superiority complexes. Apartheid-era South Africa and Milosivic's Serbia spring to mind. The Nazi comparison reinforces the myth that Israel is somehow special and exceptional. It isn't, and the fact that it's another bog-standard American-supported militaristic regime needs to be hammered home. This isn't helped by claims that they represent the absolute apex of evil - this is another reason why I wince when I see claims like Beirut=Belsen.

I'm sure no badness is meant by these claims and it's hard to restrain disgust at what Israel is doing, but lets be careful out there.

by TD - IPSC Tue Aug 08, 2006 20:25

According to Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration : Muslim genocide in one form or another is the professed goal of the neoconservatives who have total control over the Bush administration. Neocon godfather Norman Podhoretz has called for World War IV (in neocon thinking WW III was the cold war) to overthrow Islam in the Middle East, deracinate the Islamic religion and turn it into a formalized, secular ritual.

Rumsfeld’s neocon Pentagon has drafted new US war doctrine that permits pre-emptive nuclear attack on non-nuclear states.

Neocon David Horowitz says that by slaughtering Palestinian and Lebanese civilians, “Israel is doing the work of the rest of the civilized world,” thus equating war criminals with civilized men.

Neocon Larry Kudlow says that “Israel is doing the Lord’s work” by murdering Lebanese, a claim that should give pause to Israel’s Christian evangelical supporters. Where does the Lord Jesus say, “go forth and murder your neighbors so that you may steal their lands”?. (excerpts from Roberts Counterpunch article, full essay can be read on below link)

"sick sick," "pfft" and "o********-n/a, curiously and obscenely, the vicious psychopathology of the neocons closely mirrors that of Hitler on the Holocaust : in butchering the jews "The National Socialists did the work of western civilisation," (or words to the same effect). Your comments please?.

by : 0*********** - n/a Tue Aug 08, 2006 19:42

The anti-war element in Ireland always loses any shred of credibility by going ridiculously over the top. yes, protest the war if you think it's wrong but to compare israeli actions in Lebanon to the death camps of the second World War is too sad to be even laughable.

by Belfast AWI Tue Aug 08, 2006 15:31

Anti-War Ireland in Belfast, like the comrades in Cork, have printed stickers opposing the Israeli bombardments and handed out 500 leaflets in the city centre last Saturday calling for a boycott of Israeli products. Belfast AWI will hit the streets again on Thursday for more solidarity leafletting.

If you want to help, email info@antiwarireland.org

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Aug 08, 2006 14:05

I am breaking my own rules pfft by responding - yet the situation demands it. But I won't make it a habit.

People who compare the situation in Lebanon with the Nazi concentration camps are NO friends of mine. They are mistaken and their understanding is sadly deficient. You won't find people from the IAWM, or the anti-war movement in general, arguing that kind of nonsense.

However, it is equally deficient and countert-roductive to argue that because a people, Jewish people in this instance, suffered horrifically in the hands of the Nazi State, that this suffering, this genocide, suddenly excuses or justifies them, and their State, from expelling millions of Palestinians from their land, from invading an independent country, from killing hundreds and hundreds in this latest escapade while making over 300,000 (latest estimate) refugees in Lebanon.

Hope we agree on this issue at least. One last point - seeing you have quite strong views, shared by a good number, why the need to 'hide' behind a silly handle? Just a question.....

What would you, btw, think of organising a well advertised public debate on the question of what is going on in Lebanon...you may know that we, in the IAWM, organised a similar debate on Iran recently....you find and suggest the pro-Israeli speakers and we'll take care of the opposition. Let me know.

by Anti-Fascist Joe Tue Aug 08, 2006 13:03

If you know the anti-war community in Ireland at all you will know that one thing common among all groups is revulsion against fascism, so it is utterly wrong to suggest that those who criticize Israel are somehow pro-fascist or at least don't care about what the nazis did. Of course the comparison of Belsen and Buchenwald to the situation in Lebanon is a wrong one, but it's understandle all the same. Over 1,000 people, most of them civilians have been killed by Israeli air strikes and shelling. To say that these people are being used as human shields by Hezbollah is irrelavant, the killing of these civilians is still a blatant breach of international law. Clearly the so-called international community (i.e the USA, its allies and underlings) are prepared to turn a blind eye to what Israel is doing. What chance of a Hague Tribunal appearance for Ehud Olmert and Co? NIL. Nobody got indicted for Sabra and Chatilla either. Arab lives don't count under international law.

by pfft Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:50

That does not excuse trying to compare Lebanon to CONCENTRATION CAMPS run by the NAZIS

It just shows your ATTITUDE that you try to EXCUSE your friends anti semitic post

I dont say i object to people protesting war

What i do object to is anti semitic people trying to compare it to a concentration camp that executed 500,000 jews in the most horrific way

there is no comparison and if you think there is you are sicker than i thought

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:41

For Crass and his friends

Please take 5 mins and read a few lines from a number of Jewish people
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77751&comment_limit=0&c...62513

by sick sick Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:41

Buchenwald was a camp where the nazis did experiments that were horrific beyond description.

To even dare to try to compare to lebanon really really does show how anti semitic you are

RIP

by crass Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:12

About 50 Jews escaped from Belzec. Of those who did escape, 7 remained alive at the war's end. An unknown number of deportees were also able to escape from the death trains by jumping out of cattle wagons. Only Rudolf Reder, who escaped from Belzec in November 1942, was able to provide eyewitness testimony concerning the camp's activities. The most recent research indicates a total of 434,508 victims for Belzec, although it is unclear whether this figure includes those killed during round-ups and in transit. Earlier estimates had placed the number of victims at a minimum of between 500-600,000. As with other extermination camps, it is unlikely that a precise figure for the number of victims will ever be known

SHAME ON YOU

by please Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:06

Try not to be so urrghhh,,,brainless

There is no comparison to a genocide, to even suggest so shows your intelligence

http://www.deathcamps.org/belzec/roll%20of%20remembranc....html

by john mcdermott - removefiannafail Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:58

A picture paints a million words.

Each generation must suffer anew.

by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Ireland (Dublin) Tue Aug 08, 2006 01:50

As indicated above, the march in Cork is for those in the deep south who absolutely cannot make the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign demonstration in Dundalk. The Dundalk protest is hugely important and we urge people to get there, by hook or by crook.

For details on the Dundalk event, go to:

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77710&comment_limit=0&c...62448