Man dies in Garda custody

by Dirty Harry Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:42

There is a famous quote from Dirty Harry - the mayor asks Harry Callaghan to explain himself about a recent shooting. I don't know the exact words but it was something like this:

"When I see a screaming girl being chased by a naked man with a hard on and a butchers knife, I don't assume he's collecting for the Red Cross, I shoot the bastard, that's my policy."

The mayor, typical wishy washy populist liberal, is initially shocked but remarks as Harry walks out:
"I think he's got a point."

Foster may well have been entire innocent and Garda bootboys went to work on him - I believe it is more likely he did die of natural causes - but the reaction of my Id and im sure of yours too Sean is satisfaction - I'm humane and civilised and all that syrup but Im sure you feel the same as me?

Tell me otherwise if Im wrong.

by Seán Ryan Wed Mar 08, 2006 14:06

Tis a complex subject.

I don't know if the Gardaí abused this young man. It would not surprise me if they did. I would be surprised if they didn't.

I'm a fan of 'Dirty Harry,' to a degree. Harry always seems to act when a crime is being committed and he acts to prevent it. Or he acts retroactively to punish a criminal whose acts we ourselves have witnessed. Mostly his crimes against criminals are of a lesser nature than the crimes he prevents. Unfortunately life seldom presents us clear and cut issues in the way it always seems to provide for Harry.

If the 'Dirty Harry' approach is used against suspected criminals, it's wrong.

Crime prevention - do whatever it takes, so long as the action taken does not constitute a more serious crime than the crime one wishes to prevent.

Suspects are citizens, and should be treated accordingly.

Gardaí are sworn to uphold the law. They should be held accountable to this promise.

Tis a right sordid mess. And in truth I don't even know where to begin, to start to sort it all out. But I think it can be sorted out and that we as a collective need to discuss it more. I think the reason that this will be hard to sort out, is that in its current form the argument is ambiguos. If we can somehow remove the ambiguities, we can deal with the issues.

I think the fact that we as a society do not debate this issue properly, is contributary to any crime perpetrated by Gardaí in this fashion. Frustation is as big an influence in all this as is the criminality of certain Gardaí.

Gardaí looking out for the interests of other Gardaí as opposed to Gardaí looking out for the interests of Irish citizens is another major point of this much needed debate. (Of course this argument itself unsweeps much dirt from under the carpet. Eg. Why must Gardaí be put in a position where it becomes an issue of 'us versus them.')

It all boils down to an issue of focus.

by Dirty Harry Wed Mar 08, 2006 17:43

I think the criminal has it easy while victims of crime and crime fighters get it in the neck.

Remember those two thugs who held up the shop in Lusk?- the Gardai took them out - I think one of them was unarmed but what was he doing holding up a shop with an armed gunman? But the cop who gunned them down fearing for his own life and the lives of the staff in the shop was criticised by the usual politicians who bleat about civil liberties and are going hysterical in the Dail over Donna Cleary's murder.
The African in Dublin who tackled an armed robber sending both men tumbling through a glass window into the street faced assault charges.
A farmer who beat and shot dead a Traveller who several times before burgled his house got years in jail.
Meanwhile a snotnosed college kid who molested and murdered a young boy will be out on good behaviour in less than two years unless the state appeal of his sentence succeeds.
A Kerry gun runner who brought arms into the country so they could be used by maniacs to kill innocent people meanwhile becomes a TD while his daughter is not authorised to condemn the cold blooded murder of man doing his duty.

by Me Wed Mar 08, 2006 17:50

"A farmer who beat and shot dead a Traveller who several times before burgled his house got years in jail."

Don't let evidence get in the way of your ranting.

by Dirty Harry Wed Mar 08, 2006 18:23

The evidence showed that the farmer did beat and shot dead the traveller.
I'm criticising the severity of his sentence in light of the circumstances - the traveller was caught red handed in the act of burgling his house and he feared for his life.
Thats not a rant thats a legitimate point.

by Ciaran Wed Mar 08, 2006 18:43

Outside of the issue at hand, interesting how the initial Ireland Online report at 08:38:43:
"Gardaí said today that he complained about headaches while in custody yesterday and was seen by a doctor three times."

which by the 11:07:50 report of Garda asking us not ot jump to conclusions it was simplified to:
"The 24-year-old, who was being questioned about the fatal shooting of Donna Cleary, complained about headaches while in custody yesterday and was seen by a doctor three times."
as if this was first hand rather then second hand knowledge of the reporter.
If this was a secondary school media class the exam question would be "Which sentance makes the event appear a more factual one?"

Scumbag or not it will be interesting to see how this is played out in the media.