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Comments (16 of 16)
Jump To Comment: 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1Nothing wrong with having a pop at Labour or Labour Youth if your going to assemble an argument around it.
However pretending to be something your not in other to try to disrupt working relationships between members of two other tendencies is something the cops might do but no 'left' should touch with a bargepole.
When that happens it is important it is challenged as this makes such behaviour very counterproductive. It is quite welcome that other individual SP members have also started doing this on a regular basis.
ten supporters
very impressive!!!
Find it amusing that Anarchists comments originally
were only a line long and as she/he was then criticised
rightly for diverting the thread m,many others have taken
the bait and done exactly that.
Since when was commending Labour Youth activists i
n light of their party's shortcomings so reprehensible??
Well done to all those who have been out protesting in support of Joanne Delaney. It's a disgrace that anyone should be sacked for wearing a union badge.
On the other issues raised on this thread -
It is not inherently unfair or nasty or mean to raise criticisms of individuals or groups who go on demonstrations or take part in some other activity. It would be much more damaging to try and impose some kind of gagging order on legitimate criticism. When the Fine Gael speaker at the Rossport 5 demonstration was booed that was, in my view, a healthy thing. When an opportunist like Rabbitte, a man committed to the partnership process which is destroying trade unionism in this country and who only a few weeks back was playing the anti-immigrant card, turns up for a photo opportunity over an issue like this criticism is only to be expected.
That said, I do object to two things about some of the criticism which Labour Youth get sometimes. One is its repetitive nature. The other is the occasional use of dishonest psuedonyms. I'm not making any judgement as to whether the person posting as "anarchist" above is actually an anarchist or is the same person who belches out the "Labour is not a workers party..." piece like a demented speak your weight machine. It doesn't make any odds to the general points which are that:
a) Impersonation rarely works. Few people are actually convincing when assuming somebody else's political clothes. They either get the language or politics subtly wrong (as a number of people who used to impersonate Socialist Party members here normally did) or they forget some crucial detail (like our friend "Platformist Anarchist" from a couple of years ago who didn't seem to realise that Ireland's very small number of "Platformist Anarchists" all know each other). Impersonation, whether of individuals or of some other brand of activist, tends only to discredit the argument it is intended to advance and to let the intended target off the hook.
b) Making the same statement, with minor variations on the theme, after each and every post to do with a political organisation you want to criticise is not the same as assembling an argument. I am of the view that Labour is a right wing party, no different in essence to its Fine Gael partners. I don't buy the occasional claims made here that there is some significant left wing rank and file to the Labour Party which is better than its leadership. I would rather set fire to myself than vote for one of its smug, careerist candidates. Yet even I get fed up of seeing the same "Labour is not a workers party" spiel over and over again, without any proper argument being made. It doesn't convince anybody and in fact just makes Labour's critics look wierd.
The timing of the reappearance of 'anarchist' is interesting. There was a WSM debate with the SP on Saturday which ended around 17.00, the puppy seems to have left the meeting all fired up and got on indymedia once home.
You can see the puppy returning to his mess again and again on each of these threads. It's been a while since he has been out - I thought maybe he had been neutered.
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61344&con...63464
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61354
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63534&con...63441
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63593&con...63458
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63895&con...65625
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=30560&res...=4920
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65037&con...75057
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61690&tim...76800
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65305&con...76940
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65341&con...77229
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65536&con...78475
Amazing the way that he has apparently swallowed a SPuppy slogan reciting machine.
That's no anti-christ your honour - it's a sock puppet.
Read the last comment again and you'll see I have already addressed both your concerns.
I will not repeat myself.
if you are not trying to derail the thread then stick to supporting joanne.
if you wish to start a thread about labour tthen no one is stopping you.
Firstly I am not and was not trying to derail this thread.
The campaign in support of Joanne is a very important one and is one that deserves everybodys support,regardless of affiliation or ideology.
Secondly I was merely pointing out the fact that Labour Youth ARE such a good organisation in many ways and have many genuine,socialist ,active members among their ranks.
I am not attempting to bash Labour at the first opportu ity as some of you have suggested and I am not arsed posting up an article criticising LY as a whole on a different thread because I genuinely dont have that much bad to say about them.
I merely wonder from time to time,knowing as I do many LY activists on a personal basis how they can maintain their faith in the party as its hierarchy drifts further and further to the right.
LY may have autonomy Chris,I knew you would point that out,but what is it only a stepping stone into the senior party-and at the end of the day a youth-wing of that party.
And with the top of the ladder leaning more and more away from the socialist values that many in LY espouse,wheres tyhe sense in staying in and wasting all the talents and capabilities that these activists possess??
Solidarity to Joanne and the campaign-merely wanted to explain my previous post.
First of all i will give you the autonomous line, because its the truth, Labour youth has autonomy with regard to policy rating, thats a fact theres nothing subjective about it. we have taken stances in oppostion to Social Partnership, and the F.G. transfer pact.
Opportunistically derailing every thread and turning them into anti labour rants is typical of certain embittered individuals who constantly post on this site who think that that is every political issue is about looking for an excuse to bash the labour party.
"anarchist", identifiable anarchists who have responded to sectarian attacks on LY on indy in the past have always understood what a single issue campaign is about. the single issue in this casr is supporting joanne.
if you have other issues to raise then do so on an appropriate storyline. by posting what you have here you are derailing the thread. effectively you are dividing support for joanne.
How can so many good activists stay in LY when their party parent is selling them so so short at every hurdle??
LY Activists are against pacts with FG,how can they function with any purpose now that the sell-out is going ahead-and don't give me the "autonomous" line..
Solidarity to Joanne and well done to all on the demos-fair play.
i reckon seamus is just a troll. this storyline is about supporting a worker who was sacked for wearing a union badge. anyone who (like seamus) tries to derail it by bringing other issues is effectively acting as a PRO for Dunnes.
If Rabbite wasnt at the protest, you`d probably be complaining. What do you want from him?
What was Pat Rabbite doing at the protest? A shameless cheerleader of US capitalism and 'partnership' or should that be neuturing of trade unions, has no place protesting against Dunnes. IF he was Taoiseach (ughhh what a thought) no doubt he would be tying down the unions with the scam that is 'social partnership', no different to what Dunnes are doing, Union Busting!
Otherwise, well done to all the protesters and supporters, and of course to Joanne for standing up to Dunnes,
S
Excellent protest particulary given that it was on a Friday Afternoon
Lots of media coverage
Protesting outside Dunnes