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Monday, January 2nd, Bank Holiday or not!

category national | consumer issues | opinion/analysis author Tuesday January 03, 2006 15:07author by Paul Kinsella - Variousauthor email paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot comauthor address 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eireauthor phone 0851478100 Report this post to the editors

The reason why I ask this is because I was under the distinct impression Monday, January 2nd, was indeed a Bank Holiday!

However when I went into my local, the Kilmardinny Pub on Lorcan Avenue, Santry, on Sunday night (January 1st), expecting them to be open till 12.30am because it was the day before the Bank Holiday, when all pubs are allowed to open Saturday hours (till 12.30am) the Kilmardinny had other ideas! I was met with very sour faces, and told rather rudely that they in fact we operating Sunday hours, closing at 11pm. When I challenged them over this, which they didn't like one bit, they said that Monday, January WAS NOT a Bank Holiday, but only a DAY IN LIEU of a Bank Holiday! I never heard of this before! Apart from the fact that I was inconvenienced a bit (although I got my own back on the Kilmardinny! But I'll tell you about that later!), this raises very serious issues from a worker's rights viewpoint as well, because if the bosses are going to start saying that any days which are given as Bank Holidays on the Monday afterwards, because the days concerned fall on Saturday or Sunday, Patrick's Day, Stephen's Day (for those pubs that do open), and New Year Day being the 3 dates concerned, are NOT actually Bank Holidays, then will either try to force people to work those days and/or only pay them normal wages, instead of the Bank Holiday rates.

Going back to my situation with the Kilmardinny, I was extremely annoyed with them, not so much for the fact that they were operating Sunday hours, which they have the right to, but that nobody was told about it! I was in the Kilmardinny the previous night (New Year's Eve), and there was no advance warning that there would be closing early on New Year's Day. If I had have known that beforehand I would have made other arrangements. Anyway I decided to ring the next nearest pub, the Beaumont House, and I was very kindly informed that they were indeed operating the later Saturday closing hours till 12.30am. Needless to say, I headed down to the Beaumont House, where I was greeted with a smile and a hello, and I had a couple of pints there. What I'd like to know who was right? Because as I say above, this does raise other much more serious issues! It goes without saying that I won't be rushing back to the Kilmardinny in a hurry! Did anyone else have this problem on New Year's night?

author by A foreign workerpublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 16:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I work in Ireland and just moved here one month ago. I worked this Monday despite that I thought it would be a bank holiday, because my boss told me to.

author by pat cpublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 16:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

What about the workers? Do you not think that their right to stop work at 11 pm outweighs your right to have a couple of more pints? In properly unionised pubs workers have rights; unfortunately there are few enough of them about.

author by Lefty typepublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 16:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

however employers must make an allowance to their staff for each of the 9 public holidays that take place every year (new year's day being 1 of these). this allowance will consist of 1 of the following

(a) A paid day off on that day
(b) A paid day off within a month of that day
(c) An additional day of paid annual leave
(d) An additional day's pay.

where the public holiday falls on a day not normally worked (e.g. nyd was on a sunday this year), then the employee is entitled to one fifth of his/her normal weekly wage.

these benefits also apply to part-time staff that have worked 40 hours in the 5 weeks preceding the holiday.

where these allowances have not been made, you can complain to the rights commissioner, there's a form available at http://www.lrc.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=&fn=/documents/work/conciliation_form.asp

Related Link: http://www.entemp.ie/employment/rights/christmas2005.htm
author by Paul Kinsella - Variouspublication date Wed Jan 04, 2006 15:08author email paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot comauthor address 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eireauthor phone 0851478100Report this post to the editors

Firstly, I never said the Kilmardinny can't make their own hours within the existing (outdated and victorian, but that's another day's story!) opening hours. It's the fact that nobody was warned beforehand (let the day before, New Year's Eve, when it was packed!), that they were closing early on New Year's Day. All it took was someone over the pa system (loudspeakers) which they have in the Kilmardinny, and which they use when it suits them, to announce that they would be closing early on New Year's Day. Surely that wasn't too much to ask for? Or is it a case that the Kilmardinny, like so many other pubs, have become so greedy and complacent that they don't care about their customers? Also the Kilmardinny been one of the few union pubs left in Dublin is increasingly becoming something of a myth! Over the last 5 years, they have mostly employed part-time barmen, who do just 1 night a week, and who, as far as I'm aware are not unionised. As it is they are already nearly the majority of Kilmardinny staff, and very soon will be the majority.

author by Paul Kinsella - Variouspublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 03:35author email paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot comauthor address 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eireauthor phone 0851478100Report this post to the editors

Kilmardinny served till 12.22am tonight, Wednesday, January 4th, a night when 'official' last orders are 11.30pm, 52 minutes after last orders, when most people are back in work! Contrast this with the treatment dished out to us on New Year's night, January 1st, when most people were off work! Do you know why they served so way after hours tonight? Because they had their Irish Ballads on tonight, and they, the greedy ba****ds, knew they could bleed everyone dry by serving way over time! Plus they didn't have to pay their bar staff Bank Holiday rates of pay! I await your reply pat c with baited breath!

author by pat cpublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

seeing as your breath was bated i was tempted to wait until you turned purple, but at heart i'm not a nasty person. if you and your fellow customers didnt insist in staying in the bar so late then the workers wouldnt be exploited in this manner.

barworkers should have rights as well. i'm sure paul would support the call for a 35 hour week for bar workers, with a 10.30 pm closing time every night. paul doesnt have to work on at the weekend so why should barworkers? Pubs should be shut on Sat & Sun!

author by Davepublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 16:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

There are 9 public holidays in Ireland each year.

New Year's Day
St. Patrick's Day
Easter Monday
First Monday in May
First Monday in June
First Monday in August
Last Monday in October
Christmas Day
St. Stephen's Day

Most are entitled to paid leave on public holidays EXCEPT for part-time employees who have not worked 40 hours the previous five weeks before the public holiday.

Employees who qualify are entitled to one of the following:
Paid Leave
A paid day off within a month of the public holiday
An additional day of annual leave
An additional day's pay
The nearest church holiday to the public holiday as a paid day off

From my CAB:

The Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997 provides that you may ask your employer at least 21 days before a public holiday, which of the alternatives will apply. If your employer fails to respond at least 14 days before the public holiday, you are entitled to take the actual public holiday as a paid day off

Part-time employees who are entitled to public holiday leave, but who are not due to work on that particular day should receive 1/5 (20%) of their weekly pay instead of the actual day's leave.

HERES THE IMPORTANT BIT : Where a public holiday falls on a weekend, you do not have any automatic legal entitlement to have the next working day off work.

author by Ray McInerneypublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 18:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

No 'lock in' for you Paul.

author by Union Manpublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 20:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Are entitled to Full Bank Holiday rates of pay. So whatever about the other rights and wrongs here (imo there were on both sides) thats the law. So don't let any employers tell you otherwise. Get your Union to fight your case, or if you're not Unionised, look for a Labour Rights Commissioner to fight your cause.

author by Staff No.8 - Kilmardinny Innpublication date Mon Mar 03, 2008 07:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Just three short points to shed some light on your claims:

*There are 10 Barmen employed in the Kilmardinny Inn
*6 are Full-time and 4 are Part-time
*8 of which are union members (with Mandate), the two which are not are the owners

author by Ianpublication date Thu Jan 05, 2012 03:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Pubs do not make up the opening hours, the law does. Here is a link to the Licensed Vintners Association webpage informing publicans on the Christmas opening hours for 2011: http://www.lva.ie/easyedit/files/2011%20CHRISTMAS%20TRA...x.doc

Related Link: http://www.lva.ie/easyedit/files/2011%20CHRISTMAS%20TRADING%20HOURSx.doc
author by Hic!publication date Thu Jan 05, 2012 21:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Shut down cheap alcohol sales in supermarkets like tescos altogether. It's destroying our society and risking ALL the jobs we are talking about here, unionised or otherwise. At least in pubs there is SOME social constraints. Its cheaper to buy cheap alcohol than good bottled water. How ludicrous a situation is that??

And if Paul is making public assertions about people in a known business then they should have a public right of reply without being hidden. Fair's fair!

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