Upcoming Events

International | Crime and Justice

no events match your query!

New Events

International

no events posted in last week

Blog Feeds

The Saker
A bird's eye view of the vineyard

offsite link Central Asia?s Neoliberal Tragedy: A Review Fri Oct 15, 2021 21:42 | amarynth
By Michael Hudson and posted with special permission : How the World Bank and neoliberalism has hurt central Asia . In the mid-1980s, Soviet officials saw a need to open

offsite link Moveable Feast Cafe 2021/10/14 ? Open Thread Thu Oct 14, 2021 20:00 | herb
2021/10/14 19:00:01Welcome to the ‘Moveable Feast Cafe’. The ‘Moveable Feast’ is an open thread where readers can post wide ranging observations, articles, rants, off topic and have animate discussions of

offsite link Russians are in total awe at the suicidal stupidity of the West Thu Oct 14, 2021 16:36 | The Saker
The Russians are openly expressing their absolute amazement at the utter stupidity of the West. Three examples: A recent article by Medvedev: Dmitry Medvedev: Why contacts with the current Ukrainian

offsite link Pepe Escobar?s new ebook: Forever Wars, recaptured in real time Thu Oct 14, 2021 15:43 | amarynth
About 20 days ago, Pepe Escobar let us know that part 2 of his Forever Wars series is now available for purchase and download as an e-book. I sat down

offsite link Dmitry Medvedev: Why contacts with the current Ukrainian leadership are meaningless Wed Oct 13, 2021 18:21 | amarynth
Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev addressed Kommersant with his new article, titled: Five short polemical theses Kindly note that this is a machine

The Saker >>

Public Inquiry
Interested in maladministration. Estd. 2005

offsite link Are the wheels of justice creaking into action?

offsite link Middle class revolution Anthony

offsite link Allegations of political criminality reported to An Garda Siochana Anthony

offsite link Minister Catherine Martin: Not fit to serve Anthony

offsite link Establishment media and delusional analysis Anthony

Public Inquiry >>

Human Rights in Ireland
A Blog About Human Rights

offsite link 5 Year Anniversary Of Kem Ley?s Death Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:34 | Human Rights

offsite link Poor Living Conditions for Migrants in Southern Italy Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:14 | Human Rights

offsite link Right to Water Mon Aug 03, 2020 19:13 | Human Rights

offsite link Human Rights Fri Mar 20, 2020 16:33 | Human Rights

offsite link Turkish President Calls On Greece To Comply With Human Rights on Syrian Refugee Issues Wed Mar 04, 2020 17:58 | Human Rights

Human Rights in Ireland >>

British Police used "banned bullets" in July "shoot to kill"

category international | crime and justice | other press author Wednesday November 16, 2005 15:42author by iosaf Report this post to the editors

Latest twist in the killing of De Menezes on July 22 in london at Kennington tube station.

The Daily Telegraph has revealed that the police who killed Jean Charles de Menezes used _illegal_ "dum dum" bullets.

["Modern hollow point bullets are descendants of the expanding "dum dum" ammunition created by the British in an arsenal of the same name near Calcutta, in India, at the end of the 19th century and outlawed under the Hague Declaration of 1899.

The bullets, which expand and splinter on impact, were available to officers taking part in Operation Kratos, the national police drive against suspected suicide bombers which has been described as a "shoot to kill" policy."]

article :-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/16/nmenez16.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/11/16/ixportaltop.html
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2251712005

related news, Ian Blair the British Police chief has said he wants a public debate on the shoot to kill policy.
http://www.channel4.com/news/content/news-storypage.jsp?id=1242224
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2249412005
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4441112.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,16518,1643599,00.html

And CofE bishop of southwark (south london) Tom Butler has defended shoot to kill on BBC radio 4.describing such killings as a lesser of two evils. "Sometimes we have to judge between two things that are wrong to produce the best result,"
...
"Obviously, killing somebody is never a right thing to do, but if it prevents many other people being killed, it may be the only thing to do."
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L15404719.htm

author by anonpublication date Wed Jun 07, 2006 06:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

at what point did this guy become their target was it when he _didn't_ leave the _actual apartment_ they were surveying?

author by roosterpublication date Wed Jun 07, 2006 05:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

and whats the floor made off?

Steel plate, a round could easily have bounced off!!

your not really suggesting that the police will know in advance in what position the targets are going to be in??

author by Barrypublication date Wed Jun 07, 2006 03:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

""If the rounds being used had Full Metal Jackets they would have went through de menezes and killed people behind him either directly or by ricochet.""

not likely as he was pinned to the ground and they were pumped into the back of his head .

author by roosterpublication date Tue Jun 06, 2006 22:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

de menezes WAS the target, if he was considered to be innocent then he wouldn't have been shot in the first place!!

author by anonpublication date Tue Jun 06, 2006 17:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You said by using hollow points it prevented any 'innocent bystanders' from being shot at the same time as a target, de Menezes was both that target and an innocent bystander at the same time.

The Police are exempt from the Hague convention, they use hollow point rounds in public places so the round does not pass through the targets bosy and kill an innocent bystander, how many times was de menezes shot 7?? 8?? times in a crowded tube train and how many other people got injured

ZERO!!

If the rounds being used had Full Metal Jackets they would have went through de menezes and killed people behind him either directly or by ricochet.

author by roosterpublication date Tue Jun 06, 2006 00:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Dear MichaelY thank you for the compliments regarding my post, I do try! Although if I was to be shot I would prefer a solid round rather than a hollow point, militant republicans take note!!

As for Anon, of course de menezes was an innocent by stander can you name me someone at the moment who disputes this????

author by anonpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 13:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

De menezes was an innocent bystander

author by MichaelY - iawmpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 13:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Indymedia is a wonderful medium for communication and, at times, it plays an educational role as well. Studying carefully ROOSTER's neat message above, I had to rethink a number of issues:
One, imagine a pumped up armed cop, probably on uppers, with his weapon full of hollow bullets. He thinks: "I must shoot the suspect, here, shoot to kill, but I must be careful not to accidentally injure or maim any "innocent bystanders".....thank God my bullets are hollow and not of the FMJ type.
Two, he looks foreign,he is big, he is carrying a bag....f@@@ him.....one, two, three....and my mates join me.....six, seven, eight....Jesus, where is four and five? Aha, mate number two....what a team!! Justice done!
Three: It is patently obvious that the three cops' main concern was to provide and promote British justice...to protect the innocent and to punish the guilty.
Four: Inhumanity and barbarism usually go together with ignorance and a lack of basic brain functions - occasionally reflected in incapacity to even spell simple words.
Five: A rooster in the Chiness zodiac isn't shifty or cagey and has no interest in hiding behind a facade. He is the proverbial open book, telling the truth and keeping their word. It figures!

author by ROOSTERpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 06:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Police are exempt from the Hague convention, they use hollow point rounds in public places so the round does not pass through the targets bosy and kill an innocent bystander, how many times was de menezes shot 7?? 8?? times in a crowded tube train and how many other people got injured

ZERO!!

If the rounds being used had Full Metal Jackets they would have went through de menezes and killed people behind him either directly or by ricochet.

author by iosafpublication date Sun Jun 04, 2006 17:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Its front page on today's "Observer" newspaper in the UK (the "observer is the Sunday version of "the Guardian")
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1789936....html

They also have a special report on the de Menezes shooting
http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/0,,1691452,00.html

and the index of all their coverage
http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/archive/0,,1691453,00....html

I first wrote calling for his resignation on imc uk the 25th of July
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/world/2005/07/31....html

Menezes was shot on the 22nd of July, and it really is worth looking at the record on imc uk and imc ireland at that time. http://www.indymedia.ie/article/71065
Ian Blair & the "Cobra comittee" deliberately misled the public, about everything, what Menenzes looked like, how he acted, what he was wearing, even how many times he was shot.

It remains to be seen if the British establishment will go ahead with these cases, to prosecute the chief of London's police, especially if his surname is "Blair" really would be an "apalling vista" for them. But they're used to that sort of thing.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/71788

Its not the first time this idea of prosecuting the police has been suggested -
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/71611

There have naturally been protests, memorials &c., in the UK, in Ireland and in Brazil.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/71246
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/71131

author by Ali H.publication date Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

is that dum-dum bullets are illegal under the Hague declaration.

The police use illegal bullets, and illegal methods to murder an innocent man in cold blood with no intelligence information to back up their decision and then try to smear him to cover for their own incompetence .... geddit?

Perhaps if he had been shot with fewer conventional bullets he might have survived.

The same goes for terrorists.

If the suspects incapacitated by tazers in the UK had been killed using dum-dum bullets they would not have been interrogated by the police yielding information which prevented further attacks.

author by iosafpublication date Thu Nov 17, 2005 13:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It begins with a little copper joke -

"Good evening. What kind of police service do we want? Let me begin with a story.

"A riot is going on. Bottles, bricks and petrol bombs are raining down but the line of police officers is standing firm. Suddenly, one turns and runs. The young man runs and runs and then collides with a tall dark figure. Without looking up, he says, 'I am sorry, Sarge. I just couldn't take it any longer.'

"A voice says, 'This isn't your sergeant, son, this is the Commissioner.' 'Ah', says the lad, 'I am so sorry. I didn't know I had run back that far.'"

(I first asked for Ian Blair's resignation in late July on imc uk. No one pays attention obviously.)

Related Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1643995,00.html
author by Joe Publicpublication date Wed Nov 16, 2005 23:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

True he was not a terrorist however the point made is still valid.

Illegal or not, the bullet is designed and used to kill so really what difference does it make?

author by boomspublication date Wed Nov 16, 2005 17:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

John Charles de Meneses wasn't a terrorist, potential or otherwise.

author by right wingpublication date Wed Nov 16, 2005 16:07author email therightwing at hotmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

my heart bleeds for all potential terrorists who may come into contact with 'illega' bullets. I am just wondering, did the suicide bombers of 7/7 use bombs of the legal or illegal kind. I dare to think they were the latter.....we wouldn't want left wing islamo-fascists spewing onto the streets in protest.

Lets end PC nonsense.

Number of comments per page
  
 
© 2001-2021 Independent Media Centre Ireland. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by Independent Media Centre Ireland. Disclaimer | Privacy