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The Saker
A bird's eye view of the vineyard

offsite link Moveable Feast Cafe 2021/08/02 ? Open Thread Mon Aug 02, 2021 18:30 | Herb Swanson
2021/08/02 17:30:01Welcome to the ‘Moveable Feast Cafe’. The ‘Moveable Feast’ is an open thread where readers can post wide ranging observations, articles, rants, off topic and have animate discussions of

offsite link The West, Eurasia, and the Global South: The Development of Underdevelopment Sun Aug 01, 2021 23:00 | amarynth
By Francis Lee for the Saker Blog ?The dependency thesis, like all good (and great) theories can be summed up in a single phrase: Modern ??underdevelopment?? is not ??historical backwardness??

offsite link The Forever Imminent Collapse of the Iranian ?Regime? Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:46 | amarynth
From Seyed Mohammad Marandi at https://english.almayadeen.... As Iran is literally depicted as illegitimate and derogatorily labeled a ?regime,? these ?experts? can inform their audiences without irony of the rising ?menace?

offsite link The Taliban go to Tianjin Fri Jul 30, 2021 15:49 | amarynth
China and Russia will be key to solving an ancient geopolitical riddle: how to pacify the ‘graveyard of empires’ By Pepe Escobar, posted with permission and first posted at Asia

offsite link Russia and the Olympic Games Fri Jul 30, 2021 13:58 | amarynth
by Batko Milacic for the Saker Blog The world Olympic movement has always been based on the principles of equal and impartial attitude towards athletes – representatives of all states

The Saker >>

Public Inquiry
Interested in maladministration. Estd. 2005

offsite link Youth power – Don’t ask – Take

offsite link When the establishment betrays the people?s trust Anthony

offsite link The day Eoghan Harris went bad Anthony

offsite link Declining standards in Irish journalism Anthony

offsite link Mainstream media: Failing to speak truth to power Anthony

Public Inquiry >>

Human Rights in Ireland
A Blog About Human Rights

offsite link 5 Year Anniversary Of Kem Ley?s Death Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:34 | Human Rights

offsite link Poor Living Conditions for Migrants in Southern Italy Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:14 | Human Rights

offsite link Right to Water Mon Aug 03, 2020 19:13 | Human Rights

offsite link Human Rights Fri Mar 20, 2020 16:33 | Human Rights

offsite link Turkish President Calls On Greece To Comply With Human Rights on Syrian Refugee Issues Wed Mar 04, 2020 17:58 | Human Rights

Human Rights in Ireland >>

Lockdown Skeptics

The Daily Sceptic

offsite link Does This Data From Public Health Scotland Show that Vaccine Effectiveness Against Death is Just 46%... Mon Aug 02, 2021 00:55 | Will Jones
A rough calculation based on recent death data from PHS suggests that, with 87% of deaths in the vaccinated, vaccine effectiveness against death may be considerably less than studies have suggested.
The post Does This Data From Public Health Scotland Show that Vaccine Effectiveness Against Death is Just 46%? appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link Tens of Millions of Brits Will Be Offered Pfizer Booster Vaccine This Autumn Sun Aug 01, 2021 13:31 | Michael Curzon
Millions of Brits will be offered a Pfizer vaccine booster later this year, even if their first two doses were from another provider, because it has proved to be more effective against the Delta Covid variant.
The post Tens of Millions of Brits Will Be Offered Pfizer Booster Vaccine This Autumn appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link Andrew Bridgen MP Criticises Government Over ?Serious Infringement on People?s Liberties? Threatened... Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:08 | Michael Curzon
Andrew Bridgen MP has criticised the Government for "trying to aggressively coerce young people" into getting 'jabbed' with threats of vaccine passports, but says the plans would not pass through the House of Commons.
The post Andrew Bridgen MP Criticises Government Over ?Serious Infringement on People?s Liberties? Threatened by Vaccine Passports appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link Australia Uses Helicopters and the Army to Enforce Lockdown Rules Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:07 | Michael Curzon
Australia is using its army to enforce strict 'Zero-Covid' lockdown measures, with helicopters flying over parts of the country telling rule-breakers: "You will be found and fines issued."
The post Australia Uses Helicopters and the Army to Enforce Lockdown Rules appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link News Round-Up Sun Aug 01, 2021 01:45 | Toby Young
A summary of all the most interesting stories that have appeared about Covid and other areas of warranted scepticism in the past 24 hours ? not just in Britain, but around the world.
The post News Round-Up appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

Lockdown Skeptics >>

Search words: iosaf

Building our Ark.

category international | racism & migration related issues | other press author Thursday September 08, 2005 20:23author by iosaf Report this post to the editors

This summer flooding really came to Europe. Almost 50 died, a very small figure which reflected community awareness and good municipal responses. But all scientific evidence now suggests that these incidents are best to be considered as part of a new pattern related to global climate change.
We are not dealing with the causes in the short-term. We are thus dealing with effects which are long term. Proverbially the time to put that first stitch has passed now.-

We now face forest fires and flooding of the largest river valleys in summer and extreme storms with tornados in spring and summer.

Today The head of the Swiss environment agency Philippe Roch warned that Switzerland could face an increased incidence of natural disasters, where 7 died in summer and said maps were being prepared to identify the areas at greatest risk.
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=106&sid=6072287&cKey=1126190574000

"we're going to do maps". Not just the helvetian gnomes, you too. For instance I just noticed all my local supermarkets are a tiny bit flooded. They were very far from the tornado. I don't think they'd survive a houricane, in fact I wouldn't put up much hope of there being enough food in my local area to feed it for a week.

The south of France is presently flooded, and the train lines and motorways are impassable, or to be precise the area of Languedoc Rosillon (northern catalonia) and normal seasonal post summer rainfall though not extra-ordinarily heavy has seen many tornados, 2 of which closed the airport of Barcelona temporarily yesterday. They were unusual natural phenomona for Europe. We are going to see a lot more of them. Our buildings are not built to withstand them. Its very difficult to say when or where they will happen. I saw one yesterday. They're awesome. I'm not sure a nuclear power station could deal with one.

I'm going to prepare a survival tips for you which will be available in pdf form and through creative commons in paperback these will cover everything in a clear and concise way from surviving floods, and horrible new storms to other very unlikely apocalyptic problems you or your community may face.

And a "last minute" evacuation / refugee radio advice is a good idea. Work on your local version.

"The War on Natural Disasters".

together we will win it.

author by iosafpublication date Fri Sep 09, 2005 14:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

the Generalitat of Catalonia have recorded 12 tornados and 36,400 lightning strikes.
The tornados are not usual, almost all damage has been poorly made structures like bus shelters. The number of lightning strikes are extraordinary. Rainfall was recorded in the town directly effected as 76 litres per metre squared in 45 minutes.
You will agree that is extra-ordinary.
here's the local council statement:-
http://www.sitges.com/vilaweb/tormenta/pluja.pdf

The whole meteorological / generalitat team went "benjamin franklin" style to observe the phenomona that caused this article. And gave their advice this morning.

Things to look out for :- Any very dark black clouds which come with a high pitched whining noise. Close your windows get inside. (bring the dog with you) (when you emerge check for shiny red shoes under the house)(ask local diminuitive folk for directions to the local castle).

They are going to invest a lot in radar detection and are taking apart all the radar data of the last week and putting it through the models. They have also noticed that the sight of these weather phenomona pushed the public panic index way above normal.
Many people muttering about "the day after tomorrow" movie to the local radio phone-ins today and many treated for shock yesterday.

Resilient as ever, the survivor orientated mountain people of catalonia are looking ahead, and have noticed that they alone with the Irish and other peoples of the peninsula do not provide childrens school text books free of charge in September. This effects the normal working family's abilities to stock up on water, food and essential supplies should a natural disaster strike. Funds have been allocated to help children not smoke in the first place. You will agree -

positive & proactive.

author by benjamin franklinpublication date Fri Sep 09, 2005 19:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of the academy, I have examined unusual phenomona in the flat pasture land and flood plain to the south west of the city wherein are found the airstrips. I have come to the conclusion that these are not "natural phenomona". There is at play some other elemental nature which is most probably manmade and neither divine or supernatural in origin which has caused the inter-straphic layers of electrically conducting air to react in unusual ways.

I suggest we introduce the word "inter-straphic" to the wikitionary and I'll return to the academy with further findings forthwith.

(in lay terms :- we're looking at global atmospheric dispersed coolant agents not the typical cliché "global warming" fossil fuel thing. This is very very bad news.)

author by iosafpublication date Sat Sep 10, 2005 15:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

don't you love them? flood easily making horrible pollution which produce cholera. they don't provide shelter.
kid at the computer next to me in the cybercafé can clear his car park of alien bugs in less than 3 minutes with his death ray. I just watched him. He's mopping up the remnants now with a hunting knife and finding the health packs.

What a waste of a fine young man.

this more a silly comment than a genuine comment and ought be deleted.

do have a nice day!

author by Captain Swingpublication date Sat Sep 10, 2005 18:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Storms can get you up up-side the head too, of course. Our preparations will need to be even more thorough than we thought.

But its not all bad news:

‘Sometimes You Can See Completely Under A Bad Hailstorm’ !!!!!!!!!

Storms do give away their secrets to careful observers. We must note the thick streamers in the clouds. This a signature for very large hail when nothing is seen below cloud base. These streamers may be distinguished from typical virga streamers, which have a thinner appearance and carry the cloud base lower with them.

One storm battered the area west of Abiline, Texas with softball size (4 inch plus) hailstones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Such balls!!!!

It's quite likely this hail was coming from the anvil well above the clouds, (God acting up again?) and falling through the lower layers making the streamers evident.

‘Hailstorms, Do They Look Different?’

Depends, really. But our waterproof container will need to be very sturdy indeed!!!!!

Or did we make that little joke before??????
:-) :-) :-)

*********** ********* *********
(Some rows of asterisks)

We Must Batter Up!

Remember, large hailstones recently fell from a ‘tornadic supercell’ (our little prig of a spell-check doesn’t seem to like this term) northeast of Breckenridge, TX. The stones left a path miles wide littered with three to four and one half inch stones. The hail fell from a dark cloud base to the south of a developing mesocyclone (believed to have been forming in the region of George W Bush’s ranch – biblical indeed!!!).

No rain or thunder occurred in the immediate area while the stones were coming down. Further to the northeast more large stones fell blocking chase crews from the University of Oklahoma from reaching the tornado.

But WE were more successful later, oh yes!

Alas, the supercell maintained it's tornado secrets as our camera jammed after punching the hail core. Deciding not to repair the camera during the rain of "gorilla hail" we make a hasty retreat. (The CIA and FBI have been investigating this subversive phenomenon, we are assured).Taking my time to focus carefully, my chase partner that day commented "hurry and take the #%#&!!\^ picture, this thing is freezing my hand. ''

(The many chase crews that were following the storm broke off for new activity further south, missing the late day tornado!!!!!)

Nobody got any pictures for Indymedia. But there are probably some on the web somewhere…if memory serves

********** ********** **********
(More asterisks)

A particularly large stone was dug out of the mud; it measured five inches in diameter; although, that is a big chunk of ice the largest stone fell at Coffeyville, Kansas in 1970 and measured just under seven inches in diameter.

All Shapes And Sizes!!!!

********** ********** **********
(And More)

I was there, and had an old Polaroid camera, but was so busy watching the storm I forgot about taking pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An umbrella will not suffice, remember. Head protection will be of the utmost importance. Best thing really is to stay inside our ark and avoid all this nonsense.

author by Captain Swingpublication date Sat Sep 10, 2005 20:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Will we have access to computers?

Yes. No shortage of wave or wind power. The networks will all be abuzz pretty soon after our calamity.

How will we communicate with other arks? How will we know what they may be up to, what their intentions are, what floats their boat so-to-speak? Visits will be out of the question. Only cautious reconnaissance and other practical excursions from our ark will be necessary. (Unpredictable hail, flooding of course, distance and so forth). But communications infrastructure will be an immediate priority. We need not worry about that.

****************************

We may not like the look of these other arks. They may worry us at night. Direct communication may not be desirable. Which brings us to the point :-)

Computer Hacking and Ethics

(Ethics in our ark more generally will of course be very important but will need separate consideration and will be published very soon.)

If we are to be successful we need to understand the psychology of this activity:

‘A young ark builder said he and his friends, who named themselves the ``414s'' after the Milwaukee area code, did not intend to do any damage and did not realize they were doing anything unethical or illegal. In fact, when asked [at a Congressional subcommittee hearing] at what point he questioned the ethics of his actions, he answered, ``Once the FBI knocked on the door.’

Excellent reply!!!!!!!!!!!! On its own, its not enough for our purpose, however.

‘It's no secret that a mature sense of ethics is something an ark builder should develop over time. Parents are supposed to exercise authority over their children because the children are not expected to know how to make certain decisions for themselves. We have a juvenile court system separate from the adult criminal court system because we believe that a young person is not capable of criminal intent in the same sense that an adult is capable of it.’

This gives us a dilemma as an adult ark builder. But we have more advice:

‘Within this century, the obvious idea that the ethical sense of an adolescent isn't the same as that of an adult has become the focus of scientific research. Ark builders have entered a field once left to philosophers: moral development. The best-known attempt to formalize this development is probably the six-stage theory of Harvard Arkbuilder Larry Coalberg. Here is his description of Stage 3, the Interpersonal Concordance or ``Good Boy-Nice Girl'' Orientation:

‘Good behaviour is that which pleases or helps others and is approved by them. There is much conformity to stereotypical images of what is majority or ``natural'' behaviour. Behaviour is frequently judged by intention--the judgment ``he means well'' becomes important for the first time. One earns approval by being ``nice.''

****************************************

Is computer hacking nice we ask ourselves? No, not really we reply.

Is our ark builder at this third stage of moral development? He seems to judge his own actions in terms of intention. From the perspective of the stage theory, we can see this as an improvement over ``Our mistake was to get caught'' or ``What have those computer companies done for me,'' responses that would be typical of the earlier stages.

IWe don't mean to give too much weight to the specifics of the third stage. It's not scientifically valid to assign the ark builder to a developmental stage on the basis of one quoted sentence. Also, not every researcher accepts the stages theory. But the important point is that we are not at the stage of moral development appropriate to our age.
******************************************

We are not some new kind of monster spawned by computer technology; we are a kid with all the strengths and weaknesses we expect from kids in other situations.

**********************************************

This is how we must think of ourselves.

************************************************

This gives us a lot of licence when we embark on our hacking career.

Compare a bunch of adolescents breaking into a computer system with another bunch of kids hot-wiring a car for a joyride. The latter would probably argue, with complete sincerity, that they were doing no harm, because the owner of the car recovered his property afterward. They didn't keep or sell it. It's a ``naughty'' prank to borrow someone's property in that way, but not really serious.

These hypothetical car thieves would be wrong, of course, in making that argument. They might lack the sensitivity needed to give weight to the victim's feelings of manipulation, of fear, of anger. They may not understand how the experience of such a random attack can leave a person feeling a profound loss of order and safety in the world--the feeling that leads half our population to hail Bernhard Goetz as a hero to be emulated. Some adolescents don't have the empathy to see beyond the issue of loss of property. Some may show empathy in certain situations but not in others.

The point is that the computer raises no new issue, ethical or pragmatic. The password hacker who says ``we aren't hurting anything by looking around'' is exactly analogous to the joyrider saying ``we aren't stealing the car permanently.''

(The two cases need not seem analogous to our ark builder. There may be many computer abusers who would never break into a car for a joyride, but who don't understand that breaking into a computer account raises the same ethical issues.)

The professional car thief and the teenaged joyrider are both social problems, but they're different problems. To confuse the two--to treat the teenager like a career criminal--would be a disastrously self-fulfilling prophecy.

This is our first stage justification – we must view ourselves as a teenager, of course.

In the context of computer systems, there is a similar dichotomy. There are some career criminals who steal by electronic means. This small group poses a large problem for society, but it's not a new one. Thieves are thieves. Just as banks use special armored cars, they must also develop special armored computer systems. But the rest of us don't use armored cars for routine transportation, and we don't need armored computer systems for routine communication either.

Of course there is a large middle ground between heavy security and no security at all – and this is where we as ark builders can wriggle out of our dilemma.

We have our second stage justification. – read on!!!!!!!!!!

There is also a middle ground between the young person who happens to break unimportant rules in the innocent exercise of intellectual curiosity and the hardened criminal. Consider the hypothetical case of a young ark builder whose girlfriend moves to Spain for a year, and so he builds himself a blue box (a device used to place long distance telephone calls without paying for them) and uses it to chat with her for an hour every other day. (Eventaully, he follows her over there but that is irrelevant here). This is not intellectual curiosity, nor is it a deliberate, long-term choice of a life of crime. Instead, this hypothetical adolescent, probably normally honest, has stepped over a line without really noticing it, because his mind is focused on something else. It would be inappropriate, I think, to pat him on the head and tell him how clever he is, and equally inappropriate to throw him in prison. What we must do is call his attention to the inconsistency between his activities and, most likely, his own moral standards.

Quite so. I call attention to it, ark builder!

**********************************************

Two Models for Moral Direction

What to do about it? Saying that the problems of computer ethics are like other ethical problems doesn't solve them. Many approaches are possible. We are starting to hear among computer experts the same debates we've heard for centuries among criminologists: prevention, deterrence, retribution, cure?

***********************************************

Other ark builders may have some thoughts on these challenging issues? Can we do it or not? Are we in a plane-crashed-in-the-Andes type of dilemma, forced to consume our departed friends and family for our very survivial, or must we adhere to the rules of the time of plenty?

author by benjamin franklin - "not one boy or girl or mutant is being left behind"publication date Sat Sep 10, 2005 21:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

thoughts taken on board. We do know that most of our established hack networks will survive all disasters except for nuclear.
And in the case of nuclear only small areas of the w.w.w. will be lost, but the Electronic Frontier people or the reclaim the streams people have not convinced any of us that we can ensure the servers will survive all disaster with _breakdown of civilisation scenarios_ especially those which start in the USA. The network will survive, the machines will survive, the data will mostly be lost and service providers too. But its being worked on. We have the means to continue
global contact between all post apocalypse survivors. But there would be many other priorities before that for many years.

The forthcoming booklet titled something like "how to survive alive and kicking all disasters" (expected 2006) will be released version 1 on internet, pdf and full print. And also distributed and translated to libraries and basically everyone that can get a copy of David Ike or Branston will get our guide. (aren't things looking up? imagine the readers we'll have)

As for your points on the morality of hacking or certain computer activity, you should take these concerns to a tech site like slashdot, or watch the events listing and go meet real hackers. You'll find theyre not monsters nor criminals and probably very unlikely to start your apocalypse. And it is mostly just playing with numbers.

By the way - We can extract data from CDs and other electronic means even after formidable levels of electromagnetic inteference. But we'll make sure all info is in the public domain as our readership grow up and have kids and lose their hair naturally.
We're going to get as many ordinary people through every conceivable disaster imaginable.

Hailstones - yes they are a good example of extreme weather conditions, and one reason why in the "survival tips" I published here I concentrated on good shelter and slow movement *after rainfall*. But interestingly they are not a new phenomona and are not being reported more these days, they are old fashioned weirdness.
It was also a reason I didn't go heavy into raft migration.... yet.
but it has been safely tried by 200 people against sea currents fo 3km. watch the video:
http://barcelona.indymedia.org/newswire/display/105925/index.php

author by Captain Swingpublication date Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

An important addendum to our previous post is needed.

Given the policy on our ark is that, unless we are a member of a reconnaissance/management/editorial crew (which very few of us will be allowed to be), it’s basically a ‘nobody comes in and nobody goes out’ situation.

Email will be essential.

We must here, with the greatest of respect to Mr Franklin, reject the idea that communications networks will not be an immediate priority after our catastrophe. The ark-watchers will need it as much as we will. In fact, business as usual will (disappointingly) - continue to be, well, the main order of business. Lessons will not be learned. No.

************************************************************

(Hailstone size has been causing a little head-scratching and general wonderment in recent years. It’s just that we didn’t get the photos - and besides the good book has been promising us brimstone for the end-time scenario. It is very clear on this point. We would feel cheated.)

**************************************************************

But.

****************************************************************

We are on our ark, atop the floodwater. Massive, rhomboid hail is lashing at us from every side. We are cosy in our ark. But we miss our mum and dad. Or many of us will be thinking ‘how can I make some money out of all this?’

Email will be very badly wanted.

But email is not infrequently a messenger who comes speaking with forked tongue. A Greek bearing unsuspected and unwanted, say, 44 or 77kb gifts. It may have silent followers, invisibly and silently entering our mailbox, transporting themselves on the wings of our own (innocent) messengers sent to other arks and all the way back to their homes again.

Fortunately we may prepare ourselves well for this:

******************************************************************

The problem:

Is someone using emails or IM's to spread lies about us or our loved ones? Are we receiving obscene, harassing emails or Instant Messages? Are we receiving threatening emails or a flood of junk mail, spam or viruses? Do we feel that someone we had just learned to love and trust may be using emails or Instant Messages to hide their communications from us? Do we feel that someone is communicating via emails or Instant Messages behind our back? Has someone gotten hold of our email address or Instant Messenger Name—and won’t let go?If any of the above questions relate to us help will be just a few clicks away.

We need have no such worries.

We can find the source of emails or Instant Messages. By tracing backward using email trace and Instant Message tracing technology the sources of the messages can be identified. Depending on the various factors involved some traces are fast and some take a lot longer. Given enough time and resources any source can be identified. In most cases, simply uncloaking the individual is enough to bring your problems to swift and successful resolutions. Email Trace reports generally provide you with the city, state, country, longitude, latitude and possible street or area from where the email originated.

We may seize the assets earned from spamming while imposing up to five years in prison. (Specially built arks and a whole ‘nother subject.)

The penalties can apply even if the sender and recipients live elsewhere because much of the global Internet traffic will pass through state sponsored arks floating over northern Virginia, having been a former home to major online companies such as America Online and MCI and a conduit to major federal communications hubs in neighbouring Washington and its suburbs.

Our ark email trace service will be capable, therefore, of tracing any email originating in arks floating over the following countries: USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Russia, Poland, Hungary, Slovenia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, India, Turkey, Bahrain, Dubai, Qatar, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, South Africa, Mexico, Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina.

******************************************************************

That should pretty much cover it.

*******************************************************************

author by benjaminpublication date Sun Sep 11, 2005 17:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

not surviving disasters Captain Swing.
Find the right thread to discuss nusiance mail, spam, phishing &c.

THe re-introduction of communication systems post disaster is a key sign of the "restoration of order" it comes with working phones, letters, bills and new credit cards in the post and improvised prisons.

author by Captain Swingpublication date Mon Sep 12, 2005 08:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just when thought we had found our true spiritual home!!!!

We will have to find some other ricks to burn, it seems.

Banished!!! Oh Ark builder!

Farewell, then. But before we go we bring you some advice from other ark builders who have gone before you :-) :-)

**********************************************

‘Bringing children and animals together for the purpose of providing unconditional love, unconditional service, and a future full of hope."

There was once a young girl who would bring home injured and orphaned animals, nurse them back to health and find homes for them. She had a vision of one day opening a facility that would be a home for abused, orphaned, and troubled children as well as a rehabilitation centre for wildlife and other abused, injured, and orphaned animals.

She facilitated the development of natural habitats for animals, built an animal rehabilitation facility/clinic, nature trails, as well as a welcome centre, training, and administration building. Added to this is a Residential Group Home which houses children ages 6-17.

Her desire to help both people and animals led to the inception of Noah's Ark.

The animals at the rehabilitation centre play a large role in providing unconditional love needed by the children. This, along with a great need for children's care homes, makes Noah's Ark a vital refuge for many hurting children and animals.

************************************************************

Original Ark Builder – notes and theories which may be of use.

The Biblical account asserts that God sent the flood because mankind had become completely corrupt, and the heart of mankind was full of sin, so God regretted having made mankind, and decided to wipe it out, saving only Noah and his household, because he found Noah to be a just and righteous man. (Genesis 6:6).

(Don’t be offended – but we wonder if you qualify as a Noah, strictly speaking, where these personal qualities are concerned. There is no shame in it, if not. Noah was an exceptional man after all. Even God thought so.)

We digress.
**************************************************
This raises a number of theological issues regarding the nature of God.
Skeptics of the story find the idea of an all-good, all-powerful God destroying humanity and all other life on the planet (except Noah, his family and the animals on the Ark of course) simply because He was displeased with them, highly questionable and immoral if it were true.

**************************************************

This behaviour reminds us of someone, somewhere. We should consult the peoples of Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran on this point.

**************************************************

Christians, Muslims, and Jews are divided between those who take the story as "literally true" and those who do not. The former, including Protestant fundamentalists and most Orthodox Jews, believe that the flood was a historical part of God's divine plan for the Earth and mankind which—although it may appear harsh to us—was just and good in His eyes.

The latter, including most Catholic theologians, liberal Protestants, Conservative and Reform Jews, seek to understand its message about God's love for mankind without believing in either the historicity or theology of planetary destruction.

Those ascribing to Open Theism believe that God created Mankind hoping they would remain good and walk with Him, but that God was surprised and disappointed to find mankind become completely corrupt and violent. This led God to regret having created mankind, and to choose to wipe them out and start fresh.

**************************************************

There are multiple Noahs

Flood stories are widespread in world mythology, with examples found in European, African, Native American, Middle Eastern, Chinese, and other societies. Noah's counterpart in Greek mythology was Deucalion and Pyrrha, found in Apollodorus's Bibliotheke and Ovid's Metamorphoses, among other sources. In Indian texts, a terrible flood was supposed to have left only one survivor—a saint named Manu, who was saved by Vishnu in the form of a fish. The Sumerian story of Utnapishtim, dating to the third millennium BC and found in the Epic of Gilgamesh, has broadly the same structure and plot as the Genesis account. The Sumerian story was later translated into Akkadian, Hittite and—through the fragments Berossus's Babyloniaka—Greek. The story of Yima in Zoroastrian mythology also contains a very similar account, although in this case it is ice (cf hail discussion above), not water, that threatens life.

**************************************************

These are very pertinent issues in our times, dear editors. And a valuable addition to the discussion. Many of us have begun to have a sneaking feeling that this stuff might have something going for it after all. We should have been paying attention to it, all along.

Taken at face value we understand your difficulty, ark builder, in seeing the direct connection between the points raised above, our need for reliable, safe communications facilities on our ark and the original point of your post. (Somewhat nebulous in itself, perhaps?) In truth, we must draw our own connections in this world – and there are ALWAYS connections that can be made. E M Forster was particularly exercised on this point. It’s all he wanted us to do. There it is. The rest is up to you. You must work it all out for yourself.

author by benjamin estate agent franklinpublication date Mon Sep 12, 2005 21:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

you also get mythic floods.-
Best deluvian have a try at Noah novels of recent english pulp fiction pretending to be literature have been.-
Julian barnes history of world in 10and half chapters, and Ben Elton's stark.

still doesn't explain the rainbow does it captain?

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