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The Daily Sceptic

offsite link How Can a Book About Science Denialism Ignore the Most Pervasive Forms of Science Denialism? Sun Sep 26, 2021 14:58 | Toby Young
We're introducing a new section to the Daily Sceptic today: Reviews. We're also publishing our first ever book review in which Dr. Bo Winegard writes about How to Talk to a Science Denier by Lee McIntyre. It's a stinker!
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offsite link Does COVID-19 Have a Hidden Helper That Sometimes Makes it Deadly? Sun Sep 26, 2021 07:00 | Will Jones
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offsite link Dutch Protest Against Vaccine Passports Sat Sep 25, 2021 22:12 | Michael Curzon
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Search words: sunday papers iosaf

The sunday papers "playing the exodus game" edition

category international | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis author Sunday August 14, 2005 16:13author by iosaf .:. ipsiphi ·.· Report this post to the editors

Gather round iosaf is going to tell one of his stories...............

It has been long observed that people for some reason on their non-banking days readily absorb shite about Dangerous Places, Famous People, Sensible Saving Options, Holidays, Interesting facts, Sport results, Media, gardening and health as well looking ahead at “upcoming issues”.

Today is august, 8th month 2005.
It is also Tisha B’Av or the 9th of Av, year of Moses 5765.
It is also the 9th day of Rajab, 1426 since the Hegira.
Today is historic because it sees the deadline for unilateral withdrawl from the Gaza strip of some 8000 plus living Israeli citizens and many of their dead.
Today may also be historic as under extreme pressure from the USA the Iraqi government are supposed to present a draft constitution.
how beautiful they are... we were not made for walking...? aren't we nomadic really?
how beautiful they are... we were not made for walking...? aren't we nomadic really?

Tisha B' Av, is the second saddest day of the Jewish year, and marks the destruction of the temple and the expulsions of the Hebrew people.

Again and Again this day is connected with sorrow and counts its own very special religious rules.

& for good reasons.

The first temple built by Solomon whose wealth was enormous due to peaceful trade across the whole region from north africa to the spice lands of southern Arabia, was destroyed by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzer on this day.

The second temple which was built when the jewish people came out of Babalon was said to be destroyed on this day in the common era year 70 by the roman emperor Titus.

The last jewish armed stand against the Romans was at the city of Betar in AD135, it was said to be destroyed on this day, and one year later AD136 the city of Jerusalem was ploughed into the ground on the orders of the Roman emperor Hadrian and the remains were renamed Aelia Capitolina, the jews were forbidden to enter.

Then we jump forward.

in the year 5252 of Moses or 1492 of our era,
the sephardic jews were expelled by royal decree from Spain, the deadline for their expulsion or conversion to Catholicism was set as Tisha B'av which that year fell on the 3rd day of the 8th month, the same day that Cristofore Colombus set sail to look for India and Sri Lanka and found the Caribbean instead.

Many communities count Tisha B'av as the day to remember the expulsion of jews from England in 1390AD, France 1394AD, Portugal 1496AD.
But that may be fanciful, however the importance of the expulsion of the Sephards ranks alongside the destruction of the Temple, for they themselves believed that they had settled in the land of Sepharad (or Sefarad) or Iberia, what is now the Spanish and Portuguese states after the destruction of the Temple by the Babilonians. Sephardic legends and stories which survived the caliphate (711AD).

"as founded by Jewish refugees from Jerusalem. A popular etymology explained its name (pronounced by the Jews Tolaitola) to be derived from the Hebrew word "tolatola" exile, or, according to another explanation, from "toledoth" generations. The Sephardim considered this city a second Jerusalem and recreated a virtually new Palestine around it: the towns of Escaluna, Maqueda, Jopez and Azeque were erected in the adjacent lands in memory of the Palestinian Ashkalon, Makedda, Joppa (Yafo) and Azeka; the Ibn-Daud and Abrabanel (Abravanel) families were proud to claim their descendency from the house of king David, the Solomon's father. Jewish communities were founded also in Carthago Nova (Cartagena), Córdoba, Granada, Saragosse, Taragona and all over the Iberian peninsula."

History is full of coincidence because the weak and wicked who attempt to make it, are incapable of presenting it any other way...

the first World War or "Great War" began on Tisha B'av of 1914AD and ended as we know 11/11/1918AD some 86 years before the death of Yassar Arafat. Indeed if you are jewish this day must seem significant.


On this day, it is forbidden to read the Torah or holy books, and as mark of memory the worshippers sit on the floor, without furniture. It is forbidden to greet friends or family, no "shalom!" is exchanged.


there is a complete list of the jewish settler housing estates, for that is exactly what they are,
which are now supposed to be empty, stripped of furniture, salvaged of every thing which might have value, awaiting the bulldozers of the IDF at this link


History did not begin or end on any Tisha B'Av.

& it would be the most ridiculous mistake to think that peace and justice can be made this way, that today's Tosha B'av means "peace".

But make no mistake of all the expulsions which are recorded by the jewish story-telling peoples there has never been one, which allowed for the dead to be exhumed.

For a moment we might as Irish story-tellers remember "the fools the fools and the leaving of the dead".


History did not begin or end on any 11th of September, or any 11th of November.

Warfare between "the peoples of Abram" has always existed in the time of tyrants and liars,
and curiously the times of most ignorance of the "golden ages" of co-operation and cross-polination. When christians, jews, muslims and non believers lived side by side speaking their languages, telling their stories, allowing their children to play together, and falling in love.

We could consider Spain before Columbus set sail, the land which gave us Ramon Llull and all the others (see the sunday papers "your choice always was for details).


We may not to be quite honest if looking for the culture of Tolerance and Peaceful co-existance consider the London of Finsbury Park at the cusp of the 21st century, when in one small squared kilometer we saw recruitment for the taliban, the salifist fundamentalists of northern Africa, the Israeli Defence Forces, Hizbollah, the Chechnyan rebels, Hamas, and many many more.

I know I was there.

In but a few years, most of the little groups have now come to be termed Al Qaeda, and the westerners found themselves at war with Iraq the land of Babalon, where as the two groups connected to that land of Canaan, where the Egyptian Sinai desert turns to the fertile lands of Israel and Lebanon are in government.

Many of the characters have died.
Many innocents have died.

the Bush & Blair US/UK regime have brought wholesale destruction to Iraq, profits to the Oil barons, both hamas and hizbollah into government, whilst the muslim world has woken to the challenge of choosing a democratic course, one which is anti-european and progressing to full nuclear capability, and now,
now in 2005AD, 5765AM, 1426AH Blair wants to expel some "missionaries of terror" the un-licensed ministers of publick religious worship.

These regimes have brought us to a series of events which now may not be stopped.


Some weeks ago, Moroccan intellectuals took out an advert in the spanish press which opened for me a thread on the Sahara, and then neighbouring Mauritania, this thread is worth reading, Western Sahara like Palestine boasts a wall, our wall, the wall between Europe of the tolerance and security states and Africa of the starving.
Its 2,720 km long, and as such is 320km longer than the great wall of China at 2,400 km. If anyone is interested in Palestine, then they ought be interested in North Africa. We do not deal with religion alone, we deal with power, with wealth, with the control of wealth, with the wickedness which seperates one people from another, with what might properly be called global apartheid.

And when you realise it is global apartheid, which was as much fomented in London's Finsbury Park not by the fans of missionaries of hate, but also by middle class English not just british parents, you come to realise that europe has enemies, and yes our buses and trains will be bombed, until we learn how to say sorry.

It is impossible to write about Israel without trolls appearing. pity.

Anyway, Enjoy your week, if you're an orthodox jew you may say Shalom! again after dawn tomorrow.
& hopefully everyone will learn how to say Shalom = Saleem = Peace!

But Please don't try and put a date on it.
i mac diarmada
I am also currently engaged in a microblog which is a sort of collection of microtexts and poems and tiny bits of "personal comment" its here-

author by TheTrollpublication date Sun Aug 14, 2005 21:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"withdrawl from the Gaza strip" , yep, Zionist crusaders are withdrawing from 1 part of Zionist occupied palestine and moving to another part of ZIonist occupied Palestine. Kind of like when a rapist withdrawls from his victims pussy to rape her ass. It is hardly somehthing to be impressed with even if some people sharing the rapist mentality find it magnanimous of the ZIonist crusaders in the rape of Palestine.

"And for good reason"

Temple of Solomon? According to the book of numbers chapter 2, it was the enslaved locals who built that temple. I guess some people would be sad about Northern Yankees burning down the plantation houses that masters forced thier slaves to build down in Mississippi. I am not one of those people. good reason"??? too fuckin bad that the temple Hebrew invadors of the land forced the enslaved locals to build got destroyed.

"Aelia capitolian" wow, someone who knows that jerusalem is NOT a jewish city, BUT still claims that because Hebrews once forced the enslaved locals build a city there that the Un-Jewsh city currently called Jerusalem stands is a Jewish city.

The rest just seems to rationalize the Zionist's offenses against our Palestinian neigbhors.

author by TheTrollpublication date Sun Aug 14, 2005 21:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Isn't it sad how Mongols once slaughtered most of the Hungarians? Sad, yes, but it sure as hell didn't give the Hungarians any right to invade Slovakian lands occupied by Nazis and offered to Hungarians by Nazis. And all the suffering of Jews in history didn't give ZIonists thier alleged birthright of murderous theft of Palestinian lands that Britts offered the invadors.

author by TheTrollpublication date Sun Aug 14, 2005 21:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It was not numbers ch 2, but 2nd cronicles chapter 2. My bad.

author by Pamelapublication date Mon Aug 15, 2005 13:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I very much enjoyed this edition of your Sunday papers. Many thanks.

There are those, it seems, that dont like and will not have history served-up as anything other than a chronicling of past wounds (real or imagined), and as expression of their consequent set prejudices.

I appreciate the breadth of your historical understanding, and your determination to treat with historical complexity in an honest and forthright manner. All should note the essential humanity and empathy through which you view often conflicting historical perspectives - it shines...that essence...

rave on...

author by iosaf .:. ipsiphi ·.·publication date Mon Aug 15, 2005 14:32author address barcelonaauthor phone Report this post to the editors

Thank you Pamela,
I'll leave the arabic qoute from a previous edition of "The Sunday Papers" comments, for you! it means "enough, is enough! daisy cried as she slammed the door".

the Temples were built by slaves,
the tents of both Isaac and Ishmael too were raised by slaves,
Egypt was built and left by slaves,
Washington was built by slaves,
Tara was most probably built by slaves as well.

Barcelona's "Gaudí's" Temple de la Sagrada Familia is being built by the donations of believers and local contractors, and work started on St. Joseph's day 1882.
Someday the cupula and twelve towers will be complete and then the approach of steps has to be built, and two blocks of city flats will be demolished as they were built "temporarily" on the land destined to build the temple, and though the leases for those homes clearly state the well-appointed appartments are only to last as long as it takes to build the church, one feels there will be protest, when God's architecture causes the final knock on the door.

& I dare say there will be support from all sections of society for the residents.

Because in the end no-one likes to be evicted, and it hurts all the more when the eviction is a result of a war and politics which were fashioned so far away.

But as Gaudí (the most famous architect involved) joked "the patron of this project is not in a hurry".

not being built by slaves, & thus very behind schedule, perhaps that is God's way.
not being built by slaves, & thus very behind schedule, perhaps that is God's way.

author by iosafpublication date Mon Aug 15, 2005 14:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

forgot to mention that current shop level tenants of those buildings which will be demolished in Barcelona for God's psychedelic architecture, include Mc Donalds fast food, Pizza Hut and Kentucky Fried chicken.

I wonder do any of our readers know how many outlets of such global business concerns are present in Gaza, and whether they chose to "stay" for their palestinian customers or are leaving for "peace"?

author by Pamelapublication date Mon Aug 15, 2005 14:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

...or the rural Irish rendering...'there's nothing wrong with me, she said/as she hoisted her petticoat over her head/and showed the boys her willy..'

author by iosafpublication date Mon Aug 15, 2005 15:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

McDonalds franchise helped build the Nassar children's hospital in Gaza, which brought them into conflict with orthodox jewish groups who claimed 1 sheckel from every burger bought was going to Arafat, Mcdonald's responded by advertising campaigns throughout the Israeli state pointing out that the charitable donations of their franchises were not controlled by the PLC at global level .

There is speculative competition between McDonalds, BurgerKing and Wendy's to supply the 1.5million burger market of Gaza in the future.
Many of the global US food corps have already closed their franchises in Gaza until the thorny problem of customers' political prejudices is sorted.

But the fast food market of Gaza pales into insignficance when one considers the West Bank and Jerusalem. Competition is tought to get those outlet locations next to tourism sites in jerusalem, such as the dome, the wall, and the provinces where baby jesus did so much. Let us reflect that Jesus is recorded as leaving the Israel or Canaan of his day on only 2 occassions, once to the north and once to the south. His incursion to the greek communities north of Galilee was the subject of the christian texts for yesterday, though most christians probably didn't make the connection, but Jesus went out of his box to the greek territories, where he met some sinners (women mostly) saw some herds of swine (which the greeks ate) and cast out demons from people he met, which entered the pigs (which then the greeks ate regardless). This eating question caused early christians all sorts of bother at their first global conferences where delegates split right down the middle on the foreigner question, but Cornelius a roman managed to get converted and accepted perhaps because he wasn't eating bacon.

The USA works to achieve development and democracy with other states (in the words of Bush)- And the primary method is trade. American democracy means free choice, and neither Palestinians nor Isrealis will be understood in american terms to be truly free, until their kids have the choice of Taco Bell, Pizza or Burger (hilal /kosher or infidel) after visiting the holy sites of their culture.

There are at present more than 100 US food franchises operating in the West Bank. & that is how it should be. You look at the marvel of man's hand, and the historical legacy of past cultures, and you need a bite to eat.

Someday FF and the PDs will offer your kids a mcdonalds and a pizzahut next to Tara and Newgrange where they will be able to collect Disney spinoff marketing toys. Its time to campaign, BurgerKing do better spinoff marketing, why should the palestinian kids of the future be able to collect the whole range of Star Wars figures and the kids of Tara have to make do with
crappy nutritional facts and advice on obesity?

author by For the Recordpublication date Mon Aug 15, 2005 23:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The day has arrived. We are beginning the most difficult and painful step of all, evacuating our communities from the Gaza Strip and northern Samaria (West Bank).

This step is very difficult for me personally. It is not with a light

heart that the government of Israel made this decision on disengagement and the parliament did not lightly approve it.

It is no secret that, like many others, I had believed and hoped we could forever hold onto Netzarim and Kfar Darom.

But the changing reality in the country, in the region, and the world, required of me a reassessment and change of positions.

We cannot hold on to Gaza forever. More than a million Palestinians live there and double their number with each generation.

They live in uniquely crowded conditions in refugee camps, in poverty and despair, in hotbeds of rising hatred with no hope on the horizon.

It is out of strength and not weakness that we take this step. We tried to reach agreements with the Palestinians that would move both peoples towards a path of peace.

These were crushed against a wall of hatred and fanaticism.

'Good for Israel'

The unilateral disengagement plan I announced two years ago is the Israeli answer to this reality.

This plan will be good for Israel in any future scenario. We are reducing daily friction and its victims on both sides.

The Israeli army will redeploy along defensive lines behind the security fence.

Those who continue to fight us will meet the full force of the Israeli army and security forces.

The Palestinians bear the burden of proof. They must fight terrorist organisations and dismantle their infrastructure and show sincere intentions for peace so they can sit with us at the negotiating table.

The world is waiting for the Palestinian response - a hand stretched out to peace or the fire of terror.

To an outstretched hand we shall respond with an olive branch, but we shall fight fire with the harshest fire ever.

The disengagement will allow us to look inward. Our national agenda will change.

In our economic policy we will be free to turn to closing social gaps and to waging a real fight on poverty.

We will advance education and increase the personal security of every citizen in the country.

'Pain and anguish'

The controversy over the disengagement plan has caused difficult wounds, a bitter hatred between brothers, and strong statements and actions.

I understand the pain and anguish of the opponents, but we are one people, even when fighting and arguing.

Residents of Gaza, today we end a glorious chapter in Israel's history, a central episode in your lives as pioneers, as realisers of the dream of those who bore the security and settlement burden for all of us.

Your pain and your tears are an inextricable part of the history of our country.

Whatever differences we have, we shall not abandon you and after the evacuation we will do everything to rebuild your lives and communities anew.

I want to tell the soldiers and police, you face a difficult mission. You do not face an enemy, but brothers and sisters.

Sensitivity and patience are the order of the hour. I am sure that is how you will act. I want you to know the people stand behind you and are proud of you.

Citizens of Israel, the responsibility for Israel's future is mine. I initiated the plan because I reached the conclusion that this action is essential for Israel.

Believe me, the pain I feel with this act is the same as the full realisation that we must do it.

We are taking a new path that also has no small number of risks, but which also contains a ray of hope for us all.

With God's help this path shall be one of unity and not division, and not animosity between brothers, of unconditional love and not hatred.

I will do my utmost to ensure that it will be so.

author by gordipublication date Tue Aug 16, 2005 23:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

where exactly does it appear in 2nd cronicles chapter 2 that the first Temple was build by slaves?
line and bible version, please.

author by iosafpublication date Wed Aug 17, 2005 03:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

But it does seem to have basis in the Old Testament if not the book refered to.

we may read in Kings chapter 5 that Solomon raised a levy out of all the population of his realm of 30,000men. We also read in Kings of the cedar and other wood which was sent from Lebanon by King Hiram to build the temple and of the men sent by Solomon to collect it, "ten thousand a month by courses: a month they were in Lebanon, and two months at home: and Adoniram was over the levy :: And Solomon had threescore and ten thousand that bare burdens, and fourscore thousand hewers in the mountains; :: Beside the chief of Solomon's officers which were over the work, three thousand and three hundred, which ruled over the people that wrought in the work.

The word "levied" translates as "servant", or "bondsmen" or indeed "slave" depending on which concordance you choose to read, but the generally accepted meaning is of gangs of forced labour. We also read that Solomon went into great debt with his lebanese neighbour and paid him off with 20 towns in Galilee.

Whomever "the troll" is I think they got mixed up, Chronicles lists the dimensions and materials used in the building of the Temple and the extent of the budget, and stresses the word "willingly" the hebrew root being "qal" but I read that willingness as wanting to have a temple not wanting to slave away building it.

Anyway, I'm disappointed no-one asked more about
* the Iraqi constitution,
* conditions of the estimated 4 million palestinian refugees and homeless and their living descendants since the 6 day war saw the Israeli army and one younger general Sharon occupy Gaza.
* what was the story with the Finsbury Park area of london in the late 90s and how it links with islamic malcontent with Blair now.
* and on the other live thread - is GBH the only drug sold as "liquid ecstasy"?

+ but this is world youth week, with special appearance Benedict XVI we should be talking bible ;-)

author by iosafpublication date Wed Aug 17, 2005 13:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

there has been an explosion in the last 20 minutes near the Tel Arad IDF base which has been reported by Israeli radio as seriously injuring 4 soldiers.
Tel Arad is a stone age site, whic has been fortified since the day of the edomites, as a border posting in the Negev desert ( just south of the West Bank ).

As of yet the explosion hasn't reached "proper news" and so no blame is being laid, but _if_ this is attributed to palestinian groups it would appear to be a breach of the "un-official ceasefire". If attributed to israeli extremists it is the most serious incident of the pullout, which to now despite many hundreds of arrests has only seen one properly violent incident - the stabbing of a female IDF soldier with a syringe in Morag where fundamentalists are refusing to vacate a synagogue.

- Quite a mixture. "we won't leave our holy place drag us out by the feet, go on defile it! now I'll stab you with a syringe and the horror it implies.

author by iosafpublication date Wed Aug 17, 2005 21:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In the last hour an attack by an israeli gunman killing 3 palestinians in the west bank has joined the "alerts" of a day of what I tell you is carefully managed disinformation.


* early this afternoon an explosion see comment above.
* a bomb jacket (just like you see in the movies was found in the west bank)
* an israeli gunma kills 3 in the industrial belt of the West bank.

author by Ali H.publication date Thu Aug 18, 2005 09:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

although there are always rightwing nutters who will interpret it literally to justify ethnic cleansing, murder, slavery, war and supression of rights and scientific fact or whatever else takes their fancy.

Getting back to whether the temple was built using slaves or not, if the temple was indeed built be free men then it was probably unique in terms of public works projects in ancient history.

Although there were undoubtedly paid skilled artisans directing the work, the "bacxk" work in such projects was typically done by slaves.

author by The Trollpublication date Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

My bad My bad Squawk Squawk
Zionists SquawkSquawkSquawk
Palestinians peaceful Squawk Squawk Squawk
palestinians Peaceful Squawk Squawk Squawk
Zionist Squawk Birthright SquawkSquawk
Murderous theft SquawkSquawk
Palestinains peaceful Squawk Squawk Squawk Squawk

author by iosafpublication date Thu Aug 18, 2005 14:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

it has prompted an editorial from Haaretz, as several synangogues are now "occupied" by settlers in Gaza. They have said they will not come out and will wrap themselves in their prayer shawls thus inviting "defilement":-

"The High Court of Justice is to rule in the coming days on a petition by the rabbi of the settlement of Elei Sinai, Yishai Bar-Chen, who is asking the state to move the synagogue building in its entirety from the Gaza Strip to within the Green Line. This is a disingenuous petition which, like other petitions of the settlers, makes sophisticated use of liberal principles like individual and community rights in order to carry out deranged messianic acts.

The walls of the synagogues, their floors, roofs and any other part of the structure in which people pray, are neither sacred nor sacrosanct. There is no reason not to take the buildings apart, sell them or make any other use of them the state sees fit. In any case, the communities will bring out the synagogue's sacred objects and memorial plaques. But moving entire buildings just because they served for a time as synagogues will create a dangerous precedent that will show up the weakness of the institution of statehood in the face of the settlers' emotional blackmail."

"emotional blackmail". read the whole article entitled "Extortion by sanctity" here -

meanwhile, Gaza is very small compared to the West Bank, and the Israeli minister of foreign affairs has today published an inteview with a Kuwaiti newspaper dropping all the little hints, you'd expect from people whom you'd never expect to suddenly strategically withdraw. All of a sudden the macro-cultural backdrop to those israelis who visited Bcn this year, and are much like the israeli seeking a meeting with Imc ireland in the next weeks, and those who are organising indymedia activity and many civil rights activities over there become very interesting.

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