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'Black Bloc' at an 'End of an Era'?

category international | summit mobilisations | news report author Sunday July 03, 2005 18:36author by an attempted transcriber Report this post to the editors

Dissent Ireland Activist discusses his own views

'...the Black Bloc, if that has any sort of substance to the meaning anymore or whatever - an old term now, has come to the end of an era...'
315784.jpg

[note: Please download the audio .mp3 - it was difficult to transcribe because of noise in the background. If someone else wants to do a better transcription, please do.]

Download the .MP3
http://tinyurl.com/ctjyf

Transcription Excerpts:

This is Andrew from http://www.anarkismo.net - We are going over to 'Aidan' [from Dissent Ireland] who is on the train coming back from Edinburgh after the Make Poverty History march - on his way back to the Dissent Camp and he's going to give us a general overview of how he thought the day went.

[....skipping ahead....]

...when we got to Edinburgh [...] people were doing some interviews and all that for Indymedia people were having discussions of what they wanted to do basically. We got to Edinburgh - I am going to give my own perspective on this, obviously - as soon as we got off the train alot of those who might perceive as the Black Bloc, if that has any sort of substance to the meaning anymore or whatever - an old term now, has come to the end of an era. I think after today a lot of people would see as an end of an era or as something that is quite infantile and not really productive.

A lot of people [garbled] and they did was because the tactics of the cops they were followed around for the whole day. Nobody in the whole city would bother except for the Black Bloc who basically made it their own specific agenda. There was no specific purpose, there was no attempt to blockade, or an attempt at direct action - all there was was an attempt to walk around.

[....] We met outside the university.... A lot of people were masked up, so was asking why are you masked up, what is it that you have to hide, you know? You're an anarchist - I'm an anarchist. I'm not hiding my politics - I'm for openess, tolerance and inclusion, I have nothing against them [garbled] and I don't need to hide anything under a mask, you know? That kind of idea.

So basically, that's kind of... they had us all walk around basically - it was just random walking for absolutely no purpose of where people were going. [garbled]

Eventually we settled in the park and there was a lot of music etc and it was good craic...[garbled] I don't think anyone expected more than that, because it stated what the agenda was, it was Make Poverty History day, etc. A lot of people stayed in the camps and didn't bother going to Edinburgh [garbled] I got the impression from those one would be consider as 'Black Bloc' are much younger sort of crowd, ... at one stage we were walking through the park and there was about 15 lads leaking and were leaking in [???] Park where there was women with buggies and people there watching music and stuff, was approaching a police line or anything. And for me at that stage, this shows that this has become ....[garbled] looking for some direct action, there is a time and place and sometimes it is necessary, but in a place like that it was completely unnecessary and all it is attention seeking, as far as I am concerned.

[....]

There was no attempt to do anything. So as far as I am concerned, it was symbolic and egotistical and more machoism more than anything else. My opinion on it is, it [Black Bloc] has come to the end of an era - and the end of the era is now. Because basically, I am an anarchist, I'm proudly anarchist, my politics are about democracy, and [what happened today] just gives off a bad impression to all people that were gathered today - if we want to put forth an agenda... then we have to do it in much better manner, especially when its in a context like that. Everything is context now, and the Black Bloc had no place - if that's what you even want to call them. Any talk of subversion of authority or sort of subversion of a cop line that was going to happen today was definately going to bump into the Clown Army. Because they were able to approach the cops and they were able to ... 'kick them in the shins' and get away with it!

[....]

Also, the great thing today was the Indymedia Centre which became a focus area - a few downstairs, a DJ on the street, everyone was dancing - it was an RTS style thing. I think that was what today was about. And the role of the Black Bloc just had not [garbled] they just did not have a role. People dressed up fully masked up, black clothes, OK do a blockade, do a direct action, - what's the point of doing that if you're just walking through a street? It made no sense to me whatsoever.

=.=.=.=.=

Indymedia UK Photo Links
•Pictures from the train arrival, and the july 2 anti-capitalist march.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/315769.html

•Clown Army Press Conference
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/315358.html
•Clown preparations before the July 2nd actions...
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/315762.html
•Pictures taken of the clown army action Jul 2nd
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/315757.html
•Clown Army marching in Edinburgh
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/315535.html

The Other Clown Army
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/315722.html

more at
http://scotland.indymedia.org/
and
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/

http://www.clownarmy.org/

author by redjadepublication date Sun Jul 03, 2005 19:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

That anarchist incident in full - eyewitness

Jane Mayes, a freelance journalist covering the demo, sent me this account of the trouble that happened yesterday. By the way, comments are now turned on but moderated. As I am not in regular touch with a computer, and reliant on the Sony Ericsson P910i (which is holding up well), I will not be able to moderate more than once a day, so be patient. Jane writes:

"Around noon, The Meadows is full to overflowing but the overflowing is happening very slowly. Three or four thick lines of patient protestors stand waiting and occasionally shuffle a few steps towards the bottleneck exit which feeds them out of the park into the march. Others stand in clumps or queue for portaloos and food stalls...

"As we wander through the dense crowds we are attracted by a small copse of black flags and black-clad figures surrounded by police. Under their hoodies and the scarves which cover their mouths they look young, thin, small and rather weak.

more at
http://paulmason.typepad.com/newsnig8t/2005/07/that_anarchist_.html

author by ipsiphipublication date Sun Jul 03, 2005 20:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If we go through the newswire of any indymedia centre globally we shall find word from Chiapas, from the men and women who wore the mask to bring hope and articulately inspire millions. We soon realise that our constant companions in struggle have found new ears and supporters through our long association, and that they have truly done very little which could be considered "stupid, immature, or peurile" or likely to provoke animosity rather than build solidarity in the greater world community of those interested in poverty, oppression, deprivation, lack of power.

If we go through the archives of any indymedia centre globally we shall find the record of the investigations yet unfinished of the day's rioting and confrontation which saw Carlo Guiliani shot at point blank range. We may watch videos, read statements, read long court reports, see the events including the g8 2005 where members of his family chose to speak.

If we go through the archives of any indymedia centre globally we shall find the record of the bridge incident in aubonne which saw an experienced and committed english anarchist protester resident in barcelona fall nearly 60 foot when a swiss policeman cut the rope holding him as he attempted to blockade the bridge. We may find videos, statements, details of the diplomatic missions occupied to demand justice done, and of the slow recovery of the man to "quite good health".

If any "young, thin, small and rather weak appearing" kids who might be reading, think that the same people who helped the british police develop their crowd control tactics through the 1990s protests when it was most disreputable and boasted virtually no accompanying scene in sub culture clothing, music or sew on tags, support them all the time, then those "young thin small and rather weak appearing" kids have missed the point as sadly as the mass attendance at the rock concerts who now think something has been achieved.

A little more than seven months ago, I as one of those people who've done that, been there, seen this that these & those but not yet declared the bbc man an enemy, received a message from the UK signalling that an attempt would be made toarticulate our messages in as broad band a way as is possible, so that neither incident in the accompanying photos be repeated, the wording what its worth was this "well done for all those who worked and waited, the result is nearly there, you are to be listened to".

I wonder when they come home, will they burn their hoodies since they don't have bracelets?
or rather rush to blockade shell? Or will they have thought so terribly long on what they want to say when they are listened to?

Energy & Rebellion is in a way very wonderful and all part of being a young male growing up in a non-militarised state, they don't need to be channeled into consumerism or following a party political machine.

We as anarchists have always respected and understood that, and accordingly have afforded space and time to our own rebellious youth, noting that they more than any other section of our community suffer the consequences of criminalisation.

But we do have a direction, we do have priorities, we do generate campaigns, and sometimes the kids piss us off. If you're one of those kids who piss us off, could you direct it please? become a clown. join the clown army. http://www.clownarmy.org
or join the pro-capitalists.
http://beyondtv.org

Coz I'll be honest, I'm old now, I mostly hang out in the map rooms, but i am going to russia G8 in 2006 (sort of promise i made to julia) and there are loads of gigs before hand in britain (coz its the EU now) , & geldof won't be in Petersburg and bleedin heart Tony and Chums won't be there either.
=Don't get up too many peoples' noses by jumping onto the map before you're supposed to be there.

Carlo Guiliani (on the left) & on the right the corpse of Carlo Guiliani - the black block G8 2001 Geneva.
Carlo Guiliani (on the left) & on the right the corpse of Carlo Guiliani - the black block G8 2001 Geneva.

anarchist activist after the rope he was hanging on was cut by a swiss policeman & he fell 60 foot. G8 Evian 2003. He survived.
anarchist activist after the rope he was hanging on was cut by a swiss policeman & he fell 60 foot. G8 Evian 2003. He survived.

author by YoYopublication date Sun Jul 03, 2005 21:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Police harrasment on Edinburgh Make Poverty History March

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/315846.html

author by ipublication date Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

non bb dissent got penned too :/

How do you avoid penning then, when is sticking together not a good idea, see how irish dissent guy got harrassed when by himself,

All this criticism of the black bloc,(i do criticise the youthful machoness of it sometimes) but look the the non-bb dissent group got penned in and s60'd too in the pictures where on the coaches are...

what did they do to ask for that but leave the march by themselves...

author by Frontlinerpublication date Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Police have raised their level of warning about trouble at an anarchists' anti-G8 rally in Edinburgh.
They say the prospect of significant disruption to premises and direct action "appears to be increasing".

People are being advised not to attend the "Carnival For Full Enjoyment" which a senior police officer said was unlicensed and "inherently unsafe".

More than 10,000 police officers, 6,000 of them from England and Wales, are being deployed in Scotland this week.

The Carnival For Full Enjoyment has the backing of anti-capitalist groups the Wombles and Dissent. Protesters have been asked to meet at noon at the west end of Princes Street.

Lothian and Borders Police said the "carnival" organisers had failed to discuss their intentions with them or Edinburgh City Council, causing concern about the potential for trouble.

Assistant chief constable Ian Dickinson, who is in charge of policing G8-related events in the city, said: "Unlicensed events such as the Carnival of Full Enjoyment are inherently unsafe.

"There was evidence of aggression and disruption by a small number of people on Saturday.

"Our assessment is that those attending today's events are intent on encouraging street disorder. Inevitably this would increase the risk to the wider public.

Benefit 'slavery'

"I would strongly discourage people from getting involved in these events."

The Wombles and Dissent are committed to fighting capitalism and the ideas of the G8 and both played a part in London's May Day riots in recent years.

The Edinburgh protest is set to call for, among other things, the abolition of profit-based economies and the end of the wage, debt and benefit "slavery" which organisers claim form the mainstay of modern life.

In an online advert for the event the groups ask people to: "Bring drums, music, banners, imagination for action against the G8 that expresses our resistance in work, out of work or wherever we live.

"Assert our desires for full enjoyment with fun in the city and begin to make capitalism and wage slavery history."

City council leader Donald Anderson added: "We are aware there may be a small minority who are out to cause trouble but we believe the police are well placed to deal with them.

"We are working with the police to ensure that all events planned for this week go off safely and with minimal disruption for residents and visitors."

Nuclear protest

On the other side of Scotland, protesters have turned out for a mass blockade at the Faslane naval base.

The MoD site on the banks of the Clyde is home to the UK's Trident nuclear submarine fleet and has been the focus of protests for many years.

Organised by CND and Trident Ploughshares, Monday's event is the eighth sit-down protest at the base since February 2000.

The event seeks to highlight the links between poverty and war, militarism and destructive globalisation ahead of the G8 summit.

A spokesman for the protesters, Joss Garman, said: "On Monday, we will make history by shutting down the home for port for Britain's weapons of mass destruction.

"Whilst the G8 leaders will talk about ending poverty, we will show they are creating it through war and the arms trade.

"You can't end poverty unless you also end war."

'Demand for change'

The event began at 0700 BST and has the backing of the Scottish Green and Scottish Socialist parties.

Green MSP Chris Ballance said: "Following the historic demonstrations in Edinburgh and across the world at the weekend, that spirit of overwhelming demand for change will now focus on militarism, the arms trade and our very own WMD on the Clyde.

"At a time when the clamour for action on poverty and climate change is resonating louder than ever before, the promotion of the global arms trade and nuclear weaponry by G8 nations must be stopped."

Members of the clergy joined the blockade and are expected to hold a religious ceremony at the base's north gate at noon.

Related Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4646491.stm
author by New deal for the deadpublication date Mon Jul 04, 2005 18:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Unfortunately the weakness of black bloc today, is that its an easily identifiable/recognisable group.

It would be better to dress up as buisness men/city workers/nuns/nurses etc, in order to make it difficult for police to identify and pen people in. Also it makes the police look bad when they're seen beating nuns etc, because at the moment the media have labelled black blockers as aggressive troublemakers, so if there's a confrontation, there maybe less of a humanitarian impact if police are seen beating black blokers and curtailing their freedom of movement.

In the Poll tax riots some people dressed as buisnessmen/city workers and used mobiles/walkie talkies to cordinate the rioting, once past police lines people were able to mask up and riot sucessfully.

Best of luck and sucessful rioting to the black blokers, clown army and anybody else intent on enjoyment and shutting down G8.

author by female black blockpublication date Mon Jul 04, 2005 19:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Energy & Rebellion is in a way very wonderful and all part of being a young male growing up in a non-militarised state"

and what do the girls be doing then?

author by ipspublication date Mon Jul 04, 2005 23:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

when you may answer that you might approach the sadness of being a middle aged man. For I believe for many the energy is different and the rebellion is often more constructive. It has never ceased to be noteworthy for me, that great assemblies from the chiapas to anywhere see women, and grrrrls speak best. Women may be Black block or they may drive cars, but statistically they do both being "safer" than boys. No offence made. No offence taken- i'm sure. Women are also less targetted in a riot, as the police are subject to a flow of emotion as well, they are not often "massed" and "masked" and they go all sort of weird psychologically in whom they hit (and where).

"use your natural boundaries"
"use the emotion and energy"

well done to that lass who tried to close the gate.

author by radpublication date Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

'It would be better to dress up as buisness men/city workers/nuns/nurses etc, in order to make it difficult for police to identify and pen people in.'

Instead of 'dressing up' as 'buisness men/city workers/nuns/nurses etc'

why not...

organise and convince of your ideals the 'buisness men/city workers/nuns/nurses etc'

and then go to the streets?

The problem with the 'Black Bloc' is that it has the cart before the horse.

author by redjadepublication date Wed Jul 06, 2005 14:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

''....it becomes obvious that routine pressure applied in mass mobilizations and protests are largely ineffective for strategic and tactical reasons. However these events can be exploited for their potential to create imbalances. The ability for a block to blend into a larger group is a huge advantage, as well as the more general effect of large demonstrations to act as shields for militants to operate in.''

Related Link: http://blog.guerillascience.com/?p=103
author by if in doubt punchpublication date Thu Jul 07, 2005 00:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Wrong ips, Police and men especially, are indiscriminate when using violence, police officers the majority of whom are men, relish every and any opportunity to beat women and girls. It is not a police officer thing, but a man thing.

For men violence is not a question of justice, but a question of power,pleasure and control, for women violence is ultimately only a question of SURVIVAL, because women in reality are more delicate physically than men and can be more easily damaged when coming into contact with violence, it therefore follows that we must do everything possible to lessen that impact of violence on bodies, which means women must gain the initial upperhand, we need to attack first, and disabled the enemy immediately in order for us to be able to survive sustaining minimum injuries.

Similarly children must do the same against male adults. The reality of the dangerous world women and children live in is that we are always at the mercy of ruthless male predators, unless we preempt, and disable them before they have a chance to inflict any damage on us. You can bet men don't hold back when beating women, they beat a women, the same as would beat another man.

What world do you live in?, its obviously the middle class world of girly wimin batting their eye lashes, where if you're sexy, feminine and ladylike enough you may be spared the kicking of your life. Playing the game by men's rules, you're only delaying the inevitable, 90% of women in Derry have suffered domestic violence, where a man raises his hand to beat a fragile woman everyday.Lets even playing field, and train women to give men a taste of their own brutal medicine.

This is not the world myself and many other women live in, I choose not to suck up to men and rely on their patronage and protection, the sooner wimin stand up and physically fight equally for themselves, the less control and power men will have over our lives.

A police force is trained to attack what they presume to be the weakest link, in any demonstration they assume it is the women. Lets be under no romantic delusions about the Police, they're itching to put into practise what they do best and the only thing they are drilled, trained and payed to do, that is protect the richest and most powerful leaders in this planet.

The Police couldn't give a toss about, and are not here to protect the miniscual property and personal safety of Mr penniless insignificant ordinary everyday Joe Public, otherwise there wouldn't be allegedly 'feral' youths running amok through inner city slums, joyriding etc and the massive hard drug heroin problem devastating working class communities.

It suits the Police and the powers that be, to have young people fucked up and addicted to hard drugs, and commiting discriminate crime against their own working class communities, in order to destroy the cohesion and solidarity of that working class communities.

The object of the Police is not to make life easy for working class communities, or to empower working class communities, but to destroy any sign or remnants of a solidarity or unity amongst the working class which may in anyway challenge or curtail the power and wealth of private capitalists. Just as today, any trace of the miners have been all but wiped out.

author by black belterpublication date Thu Jul 07, 2005 00:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It is amazing the depth of hate men have towards women, or towards those women who do not conform to their image of beauty or femininity.

author by ?publication date Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Banks & fast food joints smashed up - not bad.

author by Joepublication date Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Smashing up a suburban Burger King (which is probably seen as a useful resource by the local community) at 3 in the morning some 20 miles from the G8 summit is an 'achievement' that any drunk could pull in any town on the planet most weekends. Even to someone who recognises that BB tactics can at times be useful this looked more like rage brought about by impotency than anything else. Refusing to be critical of it is doing you no favours.

author by damopublication date Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

have to agree with ya joe. Much of the BB activity has been weak-attacking very easy targets. Also few will find sympathy with the cause when they see peoples cars been attacked etc. This in no way effects the G8, police, state etc. It only serves to endorse media & state labeling of BB as trouble makers, holligans and so on.
The aim is to disrupt G8 and take on the state, not to isolate BB from public support. However, sayin this, good to see the minor 'battles' with the police.

author by d'otherpublication date Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

To be fair I think a lot of people on the demo the other night were taken by surprise when they witnessed the idea of diversity of tactics put into effect. Those that engaged in black blocking had a tactic and they put it to use, whereas many others had not really considered how they would blockade the motorway themselves and more importantly what level of comfort they felt with the tactics of others, and how they would respond in a given situation. Lots of the stuff that happened early in the night was pointless, and served only to sow panic in sections of the crowd that had not really thought through the levels of militancy that could be expected and how they would relate to it. The group that left to go to the M9 were totally disorganised in contradiction to the apparent assessment of the police, but there's no point pin pointing the black bloc for criticism on that demo. Most people on it were a disorganised farce.

author by finpublication date Thu Jul 07, 2005 22:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I can see that many look at the blac bloc and base their judgement on the most obvious relations between what they do and how the media and the state reacts to them.
But I would say, looking from further away, that the blac bloc is a vital part of the movement - they show the rest of us that there is a war going on between the state and the people and that the UK police force, in all it's gory, is part of it. They show us what a police state looks like and someone will wonder who will protect them against the state if they one day disagree with it.

And not to mention the BBC, wich has dropped it's usual blanket of objectivity (on world affairs) and used frases like "whatever that means" (about the black bloc's aims) and haven't even tried to show any hard evidence of protester violence to legimate the police actions. And someone will notice and wonder why.

Yes, it can be called juvenile, but the peaceful protests that are coaxed into to the sidestreets just don't make the state shudder like the black bloc does.

Just a thought.

author by Joepublication date Fri Jul 08, 2005 14:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

There is a pretty good BB video posted to indymedia at http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/317377.html - in it towards the end you can see what looks like the same sort of car with police vans (but this one is grey) where the driver is wearing a flourescent jacket of some sort. So it may well be they had a number of these cars for transport / spotting purposes.

Interestingly the video also has a couple of local women in their dressing gowns outside their house waving to the passing BB - I'd say at this point that taking a big step back from the media spin is probably a good idea

author by from scotlandpublication date Sat Jul 09, 2005 15:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I do not have the time to read the majority of posts and articles on this site so apologises in advance if this issue has been discussed. On the walk out from Sterling on the 6th, those who managed to get to the motorway at the expense of losing three quarters of the crowd ( same people who advocate " diversity of tactics", little do they care that their tactics alienate the vast majority wanting to participate in the blocades) made their way to a working class residential area. While walking through, one of the blac bloc kids through a brick through a residential home window. Despicable, disgraceful and the act utterly silenced on the camp and amongst anybody wishing to bring it up for conversation on camp. This act has been verified by several people who made it down to the motorway. No apology was issued, no attempt to deal with such behaviour advocated. There is a very fine line between black bloc tactics as a politcal act and infantile male aggression and individual psychological liberation. equally , there is a very fine line between those who mask up to get away with whatever they want and never to be held accountable and masking up to particpate in a political act that is within the interests of the broader movement. From my experiences here in Scotland it is unfortunately the former- mask up and do whatever the fuck you want.

author by R. Isiblepublication date Sat Jul 09, 2005 18:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Or are you repeating what you've been told by the media? Your report contradicts reliable reports from other people that were present.

author by Joepublication date Sat Jul 09, 2005 18:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well perhaps you should have bothered to at least read the stories on indymedia as this is covered in the one at http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70723

"In the evening others in the camp went to a meeting between the Eco-village and local activists. The people they met were community workers or activists who all lived locally and would have been broadly against g8 activity. We expected hostility and but didn't fine it. It was decided that the residents of stirling would be invited to dinner in the camp on Friday. Every friday and saturday they have a stall in the center of Stirling and it was agreed that some of us would join them on their stall this week. Those present from the camp wanted to find out if we could donate money to anyone who had the windows of their homes broken. The residents said that besides newspaper reports, they hadn't met anyone who knew anyone to whom this had actually happened, but they would try to find out more. I have spoken to quite a few people on the black block action and haven't been able to find any who saw damage to domestic houses. "

author by BS Spotterpublication date Sat Jul 09, 2005 18:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

That "window-smashing" story looks dodgy to me. It could be some lazy journalist planting a story they intend to write, or an attempt by someone else to plant a black propaganda story.
Completely no substance.

author by eyewitnesspublication date Sun Jul 10, 2005 22:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

a domestic window was smashed. this is a fact and can be guaranteed and has been guaranteed by several people on camp. Equally, and what was said earlier about the silencing of this reality is repeating itself on this thread.

author by R. Isiblepublication date Mon Jul 11, 2005 00:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Did you yourself see this window to which you refer being smashed?

author by another eyewitnesspublication date Mon Jul 11, 2005 19:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

several people confirmed this at the irish campfire the night after. no point in listing names of those who actually witnessed it, but most people who were in Irish Barrio would have heard and verified that A DOMESTIC WINDOW WAS SAMASHED. if someone wrote on this site that a cop battoned somebody it would be accepted without further critique. A bit of self denail is occuring here, when anarchists fail to criticise themselves and tactics then anarchism as social philosophy and lived political reality will become nothing short of a theortical utopia. learn to criticise your own.

author by R. Isiblepublication date Mon Jul 11, 2005 19:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

did YOU see the event which you claim occurred?

author by eeekkkkkpublication date Mon Jul 11, 2005 20:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

methinks the millions of press would have gone there photographed it and put it in the 'lovely' english newspapers.

I'll believe when either 1. I see a photograph or report from a convincing source or 2. when a known pseudonym from irish dissent heads confirms

author by kpublication date Mon Jul 11, 2005 20:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"No I didnt, but..."

He/she is just taking their time about it.

author by From the march out of camppublication date Tue Jul 12, 2005 20:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

i can confirm that window was smashed. It was by some kid, when he did it everybody that was around him gave him a mouth full. everybody was pissed off about it. But yes it did occur and yes it is surprising it was never covered by mainstream press

author by d'otherpublication date Tue Jul 12, 2005 21:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You are focusing on small fuck ups carried out by idiots on one action, you use this then to generalise an attitude towards everyone that took part in the Sterling 3am march and decided to mask up for it.

If you bothered to read any of the reports scattered around the net, you'll see that again and again it is reiterated that the black bloc tactic got people (...including some you know quite well, it's easy to spot who is behind the several handles of "another eyewitness/eyewitness/from scotland") out of some very dangerous situations with the police.

While I have a small enough affinity towards what you are saying, you are not doing your argument any favours by leaping on one or two incidents of idiocy and using that as a stick to beat everyone with. In my head the greatest idiocy on that demo was the fact that not enough attention was paid to how weak and over stretched the police were, from what I remember they never blocked us in solidly with a fomration stretching across to all points. In that there was an opportunity for those who do not favour the black bloc tactic to run/rush past these gaps in police lines, or cross country. Of course when people decided to condemn with aghast horror the activities and tactical decisions of others this went out the window, and mentally they left the action and returned to the sort of sniping you see here now.

author by himpublication date Thu Jul 14, 2005 15:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

END OF AN ERA????????????? we made it onto the high way, we shut it down!!! the tactic worked! alot of the "irish anarchists" left for home when the block started to move, it was weak and sad. sitting at a camp fire talking rubbish all night is not anarchism.

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