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A bird's eye view of the vineyard

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Irish Holocaust Denial

category louth | public consultation / irish social forum | opinion/analysis author Friday February 25, 2005 14:21author by murphys Report this post to the editors

DUBLIN, Ireland (Reuters) -- They hit the headlines when there were too few. And now the humble spud is back in the limelight ... because there are too many.

This is from http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/02/25/ireland.potatoes.reut/
today.

""Europe's biggest consumer of potatoes is producing far too many spuds, Irish farming officials say, almost 160 years after a potato famine killed one million people and forced two million more to flee the island.

Over-dependence on the vegetable caused devastation when the 1845 crop failed, but now over-production and the dominance of imported processed potatoes is troubling the industry again.

"They starved in their millions for want of the potato and now we cannot give them away," said Tom Maher, potato specialist with the Agriculture and Food Development Authority.""

See http://www.weblogic.no-ip.info/?q=node/185

author by Helperpublication date Fri Feb 25, 2005 14:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Previous disscusion of An Gorta Mor on indymedia ie:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68358

The real reason so many died:
http://www.irishholocaust.org

author by murphyspublication date Fri Feb 25, 2005 14:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thanks helper, I looked for that post, couldn't remember title.

author by pat cpublication date Fri Feb 25, 2005 15:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"God sent the blight but the British government sent the Famine."
John Mitchell

Theres a review of a book : "Charles Trevelyan and the great Irish Famine" in the Jan/Feb 2005 History Ireland. Trevelyan was Permanent Secretary at the British Treasury during the Famine period. Depressingly, it looks as if the book is making out that Trevelyan wasnt such a bad chappie after all. Revisionists, dont ya love them.

author by Deirdrepublication date Fri Feb 25, 2005 19:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The revisionists really put me off history in college. I remember writing an essay for a particular lecturer, the title of which asked for an evaluation of the UK government's famine relief measures. Having read across both revisionists and non-revisionists, I came to the conclusion that the measures were inadequate, quoting statements that were overtly malthusian from whigs at the time, etc. The academic in question was pretty irritated and told me that whig economics had nothing to do with the Famine's effects; and also that the values of the time were different, and they did their best in the context, etc.

The problem with revisionism isn't that it is conservative. People are entitled to be that, while we are entitled to disagree with it. The problem is that it purports to be, and masquerades as, value-free, when it is anything but. At least Marxist, feminist or other leftist historiographies are honest about their standpoint, a balancing influence sadly lacking in Irish university history departments at present.

author by Terrypublication date Fri Feb 25, 2005 22:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

What university was that?

author by Tomáspublication date Sun Feb 27, 2005 14:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

UCD was aklways full of Famine/Holocaust deniers. Prof Mary Daly always claimed that only about 200,000 diedin the famine.

author by Deirdrepublication date Mon Feb 28, 2005 05:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I was referring to Trinity - many of the academics there were fine, but this particular one was ultra-revisionist, and a few of the other Irish historians.

Mary Daly is a good historian, though also quite revisionist in her approach. In the reading I've done, I never remember her making the claim that only 200,000 died. Apart from anything else, I don't think her reputation - that precious commodity for academics - would have survived that particular claim.

author by Iñakipublication date Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Off Course.
The past century "potatoe famine" and its awful outcome was, perpetraded by "RoyalProstituteFascist and Genocidal" England.

author by Former History Studentpublication date Mon Mar 07, 2005 13:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I was actually a student of Mary Daly. I remember her saying that the reason so many died during the famine was because we didn't fish. Anyone for a spot of poaching?

author by misepublication date Mon Mar 07, 2005 15:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..and why didn't we fish? For a country where the Salmon
was key to the early settlers survival, so much so, it becomes attributed with mystical powers and is prominent in folklore, this is strange.

No spuds back then either, they were "introduced" from South America centuries later.

author by Barrypublication date Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The primary reason why we didnt fish was because the rivers and shorelines were also owned by the landlords. Anyone fishing without permission would face severe and heavy penalties under the law. Irish peasants even had to pay for the right to collect seaweed (rack) for use as fertiliser. This is were the term "rack-renting" landlord came from.

author by Devil Dogpublication date Tue Mar 08, 2005 16:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I thought "rack rent" came from the medieval torture device i.e. tenants' rents were continuously and inexorably increased...if it's about sea weed then how could it apply to inland counties?

author by Barrypublication date Tue Mar 08, 2005 20:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Rack" was the commonly used term for seaweed which was traditionally used as fertiliser. Bloodsucking landlords saw an opportunity to squeeze even more money out of the ordinary people by charging them for using even this natural resource .

The term "rack-renting" was then used to describe a bloodsucking, penny pinching bastard of a brit landlord. Other terms such as "boycott" from that period of land unrest also passed into common usage as well.

author by tonorepublication date Wed Mar 09, 2005 03:28author email toneore at eircom dot netauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Rack" was the commonly used term for seaweed which was traditionally used as fertiliser. Bloodsucking landlords saw an opportunity to squeeze even more money out of the ordinary people by charging them for using even this natural resource


>> This claim is utter nonsense. The seaweed term is WRACK - as in Bladderwrack, (Fucus vesiculosus). This was even taught in Irish secondary schools when I was a lad.

The rack-rent reference is, in fact, an allusion to the torture device.

Barry - Google the following words: Hoist, Petard

Related Link: http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/Herb/Bladderwrack.htm
author by Sword of Islampublication date Wed Mar 09, 2005 09:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Belgian Potato crop failed at same time
was not accompanied by mass starvation
because government was putting measures in place to defeat starvation.

What was response of British state to
failure of potatoes in Scotland.

Also we can say that Ireland in 1840 was
as far from the consciousness of the British middle class (because poor were not
having political power at the time even in UK) as Africa is from Irish consciousness today.

So what are Irish people doing to help Africa?

author by Ali H.publication date Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

of Jewish groups in obtaining reparations for property seized before and during WWII, have any of the descendants of Irish people whose land was ethnically cleansed and expropriated by the British during their colonial occupation ever been attempted?

If so, why not?

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