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money everywhere for anarchist projects but none for mayday arresstees

category dublin | summit mobilisations | opinion/analysis author Wednesday February 23, 2005 11:59author by Gill X Report this post to the editors


Anthony Horgan
Barry O'Donovan
Conor Lynch
Dan Glass
David Irwin
David Langley
David McNamara
David Storey
Feargal Maine
Fergus Robson
Harry Johnstone
James O'Hare
Killian Dowling
Lee Cummins
Mary Hennessy
Natalie Donoghue
Paul Slater
Robert McKevitt
Sean McKenna
Stephen McCann
Tom Barkley
Tony Power

* Money raised for these people by the anarchists in Dublin = €0.00
* MOney raised for an "autonomous centre" by the anarchists in Dublin = ~€1,200.00
* Money raised for G8 holiday to Scotland by the anarchists in DUblin = ~€750.00

Dont you recognize these names? Thats because its unlikely youve heard them before. There has been no organised campaign to help them or stop the repression againt them. ALthough yOu may have heard Killian Dowlings name because he posted up here a while ago about his court case after R brought up the issue. These are the people who were arrested on Mayday 2004 (plus 3 more) and have either been through the courts already on public order charges or are coming up soon, they are usually fined an average of 500 EUros each. 26 people with a fine of 500 euros each is 13,000 euros. Not a single benefit night has been held to help these people out.
People were holding Dublin GRassroots responsilbe for the lack of help but the "autonomous" anarchists are to blame as well. THey are just as big now as DGN. On Mayday, the DGN 'stepped back' from the police line and the other anarchists in the city lined up to try and break through the police line. From reading the papers you would think it was all wombles or foreign people but it was mostly people from DUblin, and the push was organised and pre-coordinated. It is the same people involved in thre squats in Parnell SQuare and Leeson Street, and also the Warehouse/Spacecraft off the North Strand ROad. THey are "anti-organizational" which means they dont like to align themselves to any group. They are well-educated and middle class, and are more concerned with surface/"lifestyle"/fashion politics like vegetarianism and squatting than genuine working class struggles. They run a mile from things like the Bin Tax campaigns, where working class people would piss themselves laughing at them with their trendy dyed haircuts and torn on purpose clothes. There level of organization goes no further than putting on pissups, vegetarian "potlucks" and film nights for them and their small group of friends, or making "fanzines" for each other that are read by the same 50 people.
Because they are anti-organizational they can get away with having any responsibility for the people arrested. It was their push throgh the GArda line that brought out the riot squad. THey can always claim "I didnt organize that" and even now they can say "this article is not about me, she is talking about someone else". THey are always happy to tag along when DGN call a protest and do the "fun" stuff like painiting banners in the Warehouse, setting up a squat or spraypaintiung around town, but then when it comes to doing hard work or support they instantly disappear. They claimed they put on prisoner supprt nights in Dalymount PArk but this money goes to a friend of theirs in London, it seems you have to be a part of their exclusive clique for any support.
PEople wonder why people dont get more invovled in "activism" or are left wing when it seemingly has all the answers. If stuff like MAyday is all about the day itself and not supporting arrested people afterwards then nobody new will ever get involved. BUt now it seems like the DGN and the autonomous anarchists (not that they ever did anythjing about it anyway) are going to forget about Mayday. Now you'll see the anarchists organizing for the G8 in SCotland and pouring loads of money into that, even though its 6 months away, while people here are still being dragged through the courts. The aanarchists always harp on about fighting oppression and "solidarity" but they cant even do it in their own back yard. Same with the new "autonomous centre", reportedly there have been meetings every week trying to make this and events with money going towards it in the future, but there have been no DGN or autonomous anarchist events for MAyday arresstees.
Maybe they'll respond to this as before "this issue is getting tired". ITs incredibly stupid of them to think that people dont notice this or if they ignore a problem for long enough then it will magically go away. THere is still nothing on the DGN web site for people who were arrested who want help. THe autonomous anarchists of course dont have a website or any way you can get in touch with them unless youre already "in the know" or part of their clique that reads their fanzines and dresses the same trendy way or youre a "vegan". No wonder there's no long lasting tradtion of left wing activism in this country when this is the best that the anarchists can do to support people arrested.

author by commonpublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You did not include information on the amount of events you held in order to aid these people listed. Is it safe to say none have been held?
Are you going to blame other people on the left for stopping you from doing so?
you complain about divisions in the left, but also make whiny complaints about whatever a person's diet might be. constructive stuff.

author by Sheila Take a Bow - swppublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Don't know precisely how the above is going to help the defendants, though I can understand the frustration if the defendants feel they have been abandoned. I don't think you can 'shame' anyone into assisting them. I don't think tone of personal abuse is helpful to anyone 'Middle class and well educated' describes many sincere activists. I've been arrested and charged a few times and received support from individuals who describe themselves as anarchist.
Perhaps we need some sort of defence network across the radical left to share expertise and experience. We are sure to need it in the future. Perhaps the author of above could convene such a network ?

Related Link: http://www.swp.ie
author by Michaelpublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

There is a long left-wing activism tradition in Ireland, Gill, but there's been a tradition of splitting, in-fighting and just bitching generally for at least as long too. Looks like you're active in at least one of these traditions. ;-)

Seriously though, supporting people facing court, fines and prison is an area we've got to work on a lot as a movement. So there's nothing wrong with bringing this issue up, except for the way you've done it. You're obviously pissed off, but you're not going to shame activists into helping you ("Oh I'm so middle class! It's true! My FCUK jeans are designer-ripped! Here - let me organise a gig for you!").

And besides, you haven't said why the autonomous anarchists (the ones who you say do the foody and arty stuff) are responsible for those arrests. I'd agree with you to a point if you said that the DGN were responsible -- they did organise the event were the people got arrested -- but these autonomous folks are just participants, no? I mean, were those arrested under the impression that the autonomous folks were organisers?

Perhaps you're one of the arrestees or you've got friends who were. Maybe you could followup your post with some more info. Otherwise it just reads like you don't like people who eat or live differently to you, and you want them to look after you and your friends because (though you claim they're terrible organisers) they somehow got all those people arrested. Are you saying that they're cops?? :-)

author by serouslypublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This sounds like some one with an understanding of the Dublin activist scene gleaned totally from eavesdropping on websites.

Sowing the seeds of division for any particular purpose? State patsy?

author by Joepublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 13:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Part of the problem here is that the people making these accusations choose to do so anonymously. So it's very hard for anyone else to know if they are sincere or not. This is a bigger problem when they choose to list all the defendents names in their posts even though some have made it known they don't want publicity.

The defendents I've spoken to in the months since mayday have not made the same complaints as 'Gill X', the people who have been working with defendents since May day (and this work is still ongoing despite the anonymous claims here) have not related these complaints either. These complaints have not been raised at DGN meetings since, some of which were advertised on indymedia. Nor have I heard them raised by individuals at the various social events I've been at.

As far as I'm aware the factual core of the claim made by 'Gill X' is also incorrect - in other words money has been raised - but I'll leave it to those who have and continue to do the defendent support stuff to clarify this for sure.

author by jack white - wsm / dgnpublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 14:56author email legal-mayday at gluaiseacht dot netauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'm getting sick of this to be honest.
Every now and then someone pops up and says that dgn has abandoned everyone who got arrested on mayday. To be honest I suspect that its the same person every time but I could be wrong. Its fairly obvious that they monitor anarchist email lists but also obvious that they don't really know how to understand what they read there. they sorta put 2 and 2 together and end up with 5. (“They are well-educated and middle class, and are more concerned with surface/"lifestyle"/fashion politics like vegetarianism and squatting than genuine working class struggles.” Doesn’t sound like whoever said this is someone actually involved in anarchist politics does it?)
Since mayday I've been involved in legal support and spoken to a good number of the people that Gill X named, as well as a few more. For fairly obvious reasons those conversations don't get detailed on sites like indymedia.
Some of those arrested just wanted to get on with things and didn't want to be involved in anything, in at least one case someone's solicitor told them not to go to a legal defence meeting in case they were fingered as a ringleader by gardai. Other people didn't feel they needed support but were happy to know it was availible if they wanted it. Other times we've gone to court with people.
There's more cases in March and just a couple of weeks ago we found out that someone has had new charges brought against them. Apologies for not going into detail but people are entitled to their privacy unless they want to go public. It's not up to a support group to decide how to handle these things. This is one of the reasons news on this issue has tended to be quiet. “X appeals his case and gets the probation act, criminal conviction dropped” isn’t a great indymedia story if X doesn’t want his name in the media.
Since mayday we organised 2 legal defence meetings, set up a mailing list (which didn't really work) and have been in touch with those people who were happy to talk to us. (Sometimes we got talking with people who didn't want us to be involved, sometimes we left messages with people who didn't get back to us. We never pushed anyone, which is only right.) About 1,000 has been raised and as i speak there's fundraisers being organised in Dublin and Belfast, details to follow. We're not going to be able to cover people's complete costs but we will be able to help people out to some extent. (the 13,000 euro figure isn’t quite accurate since not everyone has finished with the court process yet but its going to be a lot of cash). If you were arrested on mayday and haven't heard back from us please get in touch. If Gill X wants to help out she'll be more than welcome.

author by Cianpublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 15:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Gill, your welcome to the Certain Death Vegan Cafe in warehouse next sunday or any sunday after that to voice your concerns with the autonomists. It may be more constructive than posting on Indymedia.

author by spitty spitty two shoes - .publication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 15:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'd give you fairly long odds on ever seeing Gill X in person. They obviously don't have much of a clue and are pretty much trolling. I think its important not to play up to their idea of a divide between organised and autonomous anarchists too. After all dgn was started in the Leeson St squat, where people also got together around Shannon and the hunger strikers in Greece, all kinds of everyone are involved in Seomra Spraoi (even *shock* non anarchists... even *shock* someone from a socialist party) and lotsa different heads will be going to the G8.
Gill X / R. etc try to set people against eachother, don't play along.

author by R. Isiblepublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 16:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Given that many of the people assaulted by the police appear to be keen on keeping a low profile I think it's fairly obvious that the person publishing the list of names above is hostile to them.

The only positive outcome from this type of thing is that it's likely to bond "the left" together as it becomes more obvious that anti-democratic elements are at work.

author by hs - sppublication date Wed Feb 23, 2005 19:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

like this should be not made anonomously, i would tend to discount them. Possibly more could be done but the article writer doesn't seem to want to do anything him/herself but simply blame others for not doing so. Anyone who went to that march should have known there was some risk and a certain amount of personal responsibility has to be taken. (and probably has),

author by Apublication date Thu Feb 24, 2005 00:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It was apparently suggested on a previous thread on a this topic that I had some axe to grind with the DGN/legal support re RTS 2002, and I am the one engaged in this activity.

I'm not in a position to really comment about Mayday 2004, but I have a fair idea the solid work several people have done to support those arrested (and on an aside re reading the thread the suggestion that I was having a go at chekov for doing what I'm famous for "media whoring" would be just a tad hyprocritical, and I hope he takes that in the tongue in cheek way I coined the term)

Onto mayday 2002, i still get occasional contact from members of DGN/RTS who have asked me to help provide solicitors for accused copies of footage. They've not forgot this, and I know this, and I did not decide to fling mud anonymously, I know many of these people if I thought they could do more I would let them know. I know they contact me, as soon as someone contacts them and they're doing all they can.

So sorry to hijack this, just wanted to set the record straight.

author by publication date Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So from what I'm reading here, it seems like this is the same person who has been continuing with the same theme of lack of prisoner support. Yes? So far we have established, that they are a member of the labour party and do have some sort of a personal problem due to the fact that they have been arrested in the past. Yes? Their previous pieces have attempted to attack DGN, but these having been subsequently disproved they have decided to attack what they perceive as the "weaker" target, the "autonomous anarchists" (not that they haven't hinted at this in other pieces on the wombles and prisoner support, this having also been disproved). Yes? This person is also trying to create some sort of false divide between the supposed "organised" and "non-organised" anarchists when this quite clearly isn't the case. Yes?

Just looking for some clarification.
Also, in the previous pieces invitations to this anonymous indymedia contributor have been extended to come forward and again for the certain death vegan cafe/G8 discussion this sunday. We wait with bated breath ...

author by publication date Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Is this another person or the same?

author by damopublication date Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

more complete nonsense, its worrying to think that some people can gleam such cynical view from their experiences...

even if half this stuff were true, what purpose does bitching on the internet serve, why not spend your time more constructively doing something like ORAGANISING A BENEFIT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY FUCKING MOANING.

author by jack whitepublication date Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"So from what I'm reading here, it seems like this is the same person who has been continuing with the same theme of lack of prisoner support. Yes? So far we have established, that they are a member of the labour party and do have some sort of a personal problem due to the fact that they have been arrested in the past. Yes? "

Personally i reckon Gill x is R. Think the person you're referring to was No.6. there was a theory that they were in the Labour p Party but i haven't seen anything near concrete.

And to be honest I don't think there's much point speculating.

author by cormypublication date Thu Feb 24, 2005 14:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hey Gill, I personally loved the benefit you put on yourself to raise awareness and money for these issues...wait, what benefit? Always so easy to sit at the sidelines and dissect and snipe at what everyone else does but never willing to take a step in the direction you want things go yourself...except for posting on internet messageboards. Everyone knows your type.

There's always a million more issues to be dealt with, documented, had funds raised for etc than any one group or person can do themselves. You seem to be forgetting that we're humans too and if you tried to take the weight of all these issues on your shoulders you will only fall. So people do what they can, and then others just knock them down for it rather than make a positive contribution of their own.

Pissed off ex-idealist or just some right-wing snot looking to raise dissent? Whichever you are, your contribution is equally irrelevant.

author by johnpublication date Sun Feb 27, 2005 20:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

pointless, anonymous moany badly researched rubbish, you havent a clue eg benefit in dalymount was organised not by anyone from leeson street or the warehouse but by a bohs fan but anyway.

please give details Gillx of events you have organised for the above and amount raised?

please give details of events you have planned for coming period?

author by Joepublication date Sun Feb 27, 2005 22:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well seeing as 'Gill X' didn't turn up at the dissent meeting just as 'r' didn't turn up at any DGN meeting it is almost certainly safe enough to assume neither exist. Quite who would stand to gain by attempting (unsuccesfully) to sow division in this manner is left as an exercise for the reader. Personally I hope its a cop or a right winger rather than any of the more sectarian possibilities.

author by Bingopublication date Sun Feb 27, 2005 22:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Wasn't there some Labour Youth guy stirring identical shit recently?

author by Badmanpublication date Sun Feb 27, 2005 23:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Consider that whoever posted this (and who presumably posted previous threads on the issue too):

1. Has a complete list to hand of all the people arrested on Mayday and a total of their fines to date. It would take quite a bit of research to compile this, and, as Gill points out, the full list of names has not been in the public domain until now. From this it's clear that Gill is either in a position where such information is readily available, or she is seriously obsessed for some unknown reason.

2. Despite members of DGN having been in touch with all of the arrestees, it appears that none of them have voiced any such opinions, nor has anybody attended any anarchist meetings in the last year to raise such concerns.

3. Gill's familiarity with anarchists, with indymedia and with previous discussions of this very topic here mean that she knows full well that many of these people have expressly asked for no publicity for their cases. Thus, despite her pretence, she could not have the interests of the defendants at heart and this 'campaign' must be motivated by some axe that she has to grind with anarchists. This impression is strengthened by her use of crude and inaccurate stereotypes.

Given these facts, it is safe to assume that this criticism is sinister in nature. However, it is more difficult to figure out who is behind it. As I see it, there are three main suspects.

1. The branch. They were very active around Mayday and after all the 'help' that they received from their brethern across the water (media management, watercannons, intelligence and riot training...) they must be very keen to show their mentors that they are good pupils. They are very eager to do a good job in advance of the G8 meeting in Scotland in July and would love to be able to boast about sowing division among the Irish anarchists and preventing them from mobilising for Dissent - "and we used that interweb thing that you showed us sir!".

2. A lone, random embittered coward who hates anarchism in an obsessive way. Perhaps somebody who got arrested on some anarchist event and has shifted the blame on to anarchists in general, or else somebody who just doesn't like that sort of thing and is offended by the very notion of a life without bosses.

3. A trot. I really hope it isn't and it's probably an outside chance, but it's seldom that you find depths that they won't sink to.

author by Lee Cummins - ME CLOVERHILL 18publication date Tue Aug 22, 2006 04:50author email www.foxywarner at hotmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Good article wow somebody cared ! I got my friggin elbow broken at the thing! Stupid cops even stupider anarachists! Had quite a massive chain reaction in my life! Was it faith I should of been their probably Id like to think so anyhow! Tiz amazing how the governmeant can take away your freedom and dignity in the drop of a batton! I had to sit on my hands and plead guilty I made the right choice Im sure could never figure out why none of the heros ever got arrested I got attacked and stood my ground although it has to be said if i hadnt been drunk I wouldnt have been there. Ha I just got out of rehab a week ago better food than cloverhill worse tv you win some you lose some just never forget who you are!

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