Socialist in Australia

by Bin had Wed Aug 25, 2004 02:42

I'll bet he studiously avoided telling his audiences that the Socialist Party abandoned the bin tax campaign. The Socialist Party just walked away from it, and now people are left in the position of having to pay this double taxation.

by Elaine Wed Aug 25, 2004 02:45

The correct link to that article is ...

http://www.socialistworld.net/

by Fucking hell Wed Aug 25, 2004 03:02

should have told Joe, Clare Daly etc that they could just walk away from the campaign before they went to prison for refusing to back down.

Non-payment has been crushed in two of the four council areas. What do you want the SP to do about it? Magic strong campaigns back in those areas out of thin air? They fought along with thousands of others. Some of them went to prison over it which is a damn site more than "bin had" did I bet.

Sometimes the level of stupid bile on this site just takes your breath away.

by Chekov Wed Aug 25, 2004 03:40

The government would seem like a more likely candidate. While I would have some serious criticisms of the SP's strategy in the bin tax campaign, they can't possible be expected to keep it alive after most people have given up.

And the bile on this site merely reflects the bile that's in people's heads - don't blame the messenger boys and girls.

by Pedant Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:36

(1) The headline to this story says Joe spoke to thousands of workers but when you read on, it seems that it was less than 2,000. So there should be no s at the end of thousand. Then I suppose when you are recruiting from the same pool as the SWP, I suppose following their tactics are bound to ensue.

(2) "Non-payment has been crushed in two of the four council areas."

How come there was no mention of this in the election literature of the candidates who were elected in these two areas? And no mention since?

by peter lalor Wed Aug 25, 2004 13:02

I see the SP is attempting to incorporate this as part of its mythological history of "workers struggles" !! The Eureka miners were not proletarians at all but self employed prospectors protesting against a state licence. More akin to what people has to do under socialism! There was also a huge element of Irish republican ressentment against the same people who had driven or transported them from their own country. And we all know what the SP thinks of Irish republicanism!! - So "comrades" stick to your own sad history of petty purges and psychotic prohecies. Gerry Healy is your mentor not the heroes of Eureka.

by Jimi Wed Aug 25, 2004 13:47

"At the Melbourne meeting, organised by the Socialist Party, Higgins also discussed the need for building new workers' parties in the face of the complete betrayal of workig people by the old social-democratic parties. Higgins argued that socialists must play a critical role in the development of these new workers' parties."

Anywhere but Ireland - hey Joe?

by Census O Count Wed Aug 25, 2004 14:46

This is a report on Joe's meeting there must be confusion about the size of the crowd?????

MELBOURNE — On August 21, Irish Socialist Party parliamentarian Joe Higgins addressed a meeting of 70 people as part of week-long Australian speaking tour which included public meetings in Newcastle, Sydney and Perth. Higgins is a member of the Dail, the parliament in southern Ireland.

Higgins was jailed last year for one month for his role in blockades opposing garbage collection charges. He related the campaign's success in involving people to prevent garbage services being put on a user-pays basis.

Higgins has also taken a firm anti-war stand in parliament. In January 2003, he introduced a bill into parliament calling on the Irish government to stop allowing the US to refuel its planes at Shannon airport, which has since become a touchstone fight for Irish peace activists. Higgins was a keynote speaker at the March protests at Shannon against US President George Bush’s visit to Ireland.

At the Melbourne meeting, organised by the Socialist Party, Higgins also discussed the need for building new workers' parties in the face of the complete betrayal of working people by the old social-democratic parties. Higgins argued that socialists must play a critical role in the development of these new workers' parties.

Jody Betzein

by Ozer Wed Aug 25, 2004 16:28

The Oz SP come out with usual simplistic arguments. Unity is the answer to everything so they oppose the right of Aborigines to organise seperately. They are incapable of acknowledging the super-exploitation suffered by Aborigines. "Black And White Unite!" rings rather hollow when it is the whites who are exploiting the Aborigines.

by wombat Wed Aug 25, 2004 19:14

The Oz SP are an irrelevent sect. The only significant radical left force in Oz is the Socialist Alliance, which encommpasses a number of groups and more importantly a growing number of independent activists. That is not to say that the dominant group, the DSP are not without their faults but the SA is the only show in town.

by Platypus Wed Aug 25, 2004 21:42

This would be the same Socialist Alliance that gets roughly 0.2% in most seats in contests. The whole left in Australia is small and in the greater scheme of things irrelevant, the Socialist Alliance/DSP, the Socialist Party, Socialist Alternative (which split yesterday) etc.

by grongo Wed Aug 25, 2004 22:08

"Election results product of campaigning work
The Socialist Party has the best election results of the socialist left in recent elections. In WA we received a 1.24% in Maylands, the best result for the Left. At the last Victorian state election, we received over 12% in the seat of Richmond (4,213 first preferences), the highest vote for a socialist since the 1950s. In suburbs such as Collingwood and Fitzroy the vote reached close to 17%. This is laying the basis for socialists to capture a seat for the first time in Australia for decades."

from asp website




http://www.socialistpartyaustralia.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=459

http://www.socialistpartyaustralia.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=309

by grongo Wed Aug 25, 2004 22:23

from cwi site

joe higgins speaking in australia

by eeekkkk Thu Aug 26, 2004 00:04

.

by Curioz Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:30

"Socialist Alternative (which split yesterday) etc."

Was this because of Joe's call to build a mass workers party?

by Major Woody Fri Aug 27, 2004 15:06

The CWI group in Aus is also called the Socialist Party. This Socialist Alternative appears to be either the IS group or a split from it. The CWI Socialist Alternative group is in New Zealand not Aus.

One interesting quote which provides a useful check list of 'how I know when there is a problem'. They accuse the leadership of

"an unjustified hostility to the left, and suspicion of members who are integrated into the left socially and politically; leading members 'coordinating' discussions at social gatherings; manipulation of internal democracy, shifting caucuses, and not inviting some members, ambushes, denying oppositional representation in delegations to the NC; the use of a gossip network to demonise critical members, placing moral pressure on members not to associate with parts of the left or critical members, right down to tailing members to stop them meeting with other members; the practice of 'intervening' whenever a suspect member talks to other members, especially newer people; a highly internalised approach to development, where members are set on others as a way of 'developing cadre', development is seen as a matter of reading groups and book learning, but not experience as activists in campaigns; a sectarian approach to the campaign work we do;"

by Badman Sat Aug 28, 2004 19:08

Are a split of the "I can't believe it's not the SWP" variety from the ISO - the Ozzie version of the SWP's international which is run in the best imperialist style from London.

The Socialist Alliance is dominated by the DSP, who are probably even more of a cult than the SWP.

Ah, Trotskyism, don't you love it. How many paper-sellers can you fit on a corner again?

by helpful person Wed Sep 01, 2004 13:01

Cut and pasted comment from: http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/organization/DemocraticCentralism.htm

by karl kautsky Wed Sep 01, 2004 13:23

Interesting. However, you miss the point. It doesn't really matter what doctrinal differences there were between the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks on democratic centralism and I am not disputing that the latter might very well have acted in the same manner as the former had they been successful. Just as Trotsky would have done had he defeated Stalin. Indeed their common accpetance of "democratic" centralism would have made that all the more likely. You see the point is that a lack of democracy - which the oxymoron democratic centralism describes - makes it inevitable that those in power will suppress their opponents whether they be internal or external.

by person who split - new socialist group Wed Sep 01, 2004 15:49 Brisbane Australia

Unbelievable! I'm one of the people who split from the Australian group, Socialist Alternative a week ago and now I discover people are writing about it in Ireland! Full on! So anyway, to fill in some info about it for anyone who is interested . . .The Australian version of the British SWP is the International Socialist Organisation (ISO). It split in 1995 and a new group was formed, called Socialist Alternative (Salt). The ISO split again about a year ago, and a third group called Solidarity was formed. The ISO and the Democratic Socialist Party (DSP, not sure if there's an equivalent over there - they support Cuba, Vietnam etc as socialist) are both in the Socialist Alliance (SA), with a number of teeny tiny sectish groups. Socialist Alternative was getting nearly big enough to rival the Socialist Alliance, even though it wasn't a part of it, until it split. It is currently the talk of the left in Australia (whoever it was that said the Australian left is tiny and introverted is definitely correct).I wish activists who read this the best of luck in avoiding the kind of sectarianism and internal collapse the left has suffered here in Australia!

by left Anorak Thu Sep 02, 2004 16:22

In my spare time I enjoy reading about the constant formation and splitting of the left everywhere.

Aussie could you give the reasons why the split took place and why you sided with the group who split???

by Socialist in Australia - Socialist Action Group Sat Dec 04, 2004 13:20

the reason for the split, like most splits, was that a section of the group felt that the leadership had the wrong perpective. In this case it was " the political period is such that we can only operate as a propaganda group"
perspective. We felt the group, tho sizable, was starting to behave like a sect. So we left, or rather, got pushed out. However, our new group is going strong and have the long term project of getting the whole International Socialist Left in OZ to regroup. Our website is www.socialistaction.com for anyone who follows this stuff enough to be interested!

by Oz left news Sat Dec 04, 2004 15:33

The Australian Socialist Party has just got its first councillor elected in Yarra City, an inner-city area of Melbourne.

This is, I believe, the first time that a socialist candidate has been elected to any public office in Australia for decades. It doesn't mean that revolution is around the corner or that the Australian working class is turning towards socialism but it is a useful victory.