Farmers & Peace Protesters

by David Thu Mar 04, 2004 16:55

Farmer's..

a) have a professional lobby group.
b) have professional lawyers.
c) do not attract activist hobbyists or deliberate troublemakers to their protests

and most importantly....

d) have no history of violent or agressive protest tactics.

They are not seen as a threat as they are not a threat. Antiwar protesters (rightly or wringly) have a history in Ireland of elsewhere of illegal activity, damage to property, disarming planes, etc etc).

by Joe Thu Mar 04, 2004 16:55

And of course there was the rapid gardai reaction to every and any bin tax blockade. Over 20 people spent up to a month each in prision for doing less then the farmers. Mind you don't blame the farmers for that, blame the cops, the courts and the government.

by Al Thu Mar 04, 2004 16:58

... between blockading a facility that may result in a percieved public health risk (e.g. bin blockades).

by Joe Thu Mar 04, 2004 16:59

Who do you think your fooling with 'have no history of violent or agressive protest tactics.'

Chucking live sheep over the counter at civil servants in Kildare street is a lot more ' violent or agressive' then taking a war machine out of action for a few days.

I'd say the reason the farmers are able to get away with it is at least in the past because they have a record of responding to state repression with what you would call* 'violent or agressive' protests on a massive scale. It's unfortuantly true that the farmers and their leaders have a much better sense of the power of collective action then any other section of society.

* we'll you'd call it that if 'bad' protesters did it, obviously you have a soft spot for protesters in wellies

by Bin Tax Activist Thu Mar 04, 2004 17:05

"...between blockading a facility that may result in a percieved public health risk (e.g. bin blockades)."

And up until last year that health risk was recognised by an act over 100 years old. The Public health act which guaranteed that all bins would be collected. That was until the Dail enforcing the neo-liberal agenda ignored the public health risk.
Sorry Al you can't have it both ways.

by Jimbo Thu Mar 04, 2004 17:07

the fact that most of them vote Fianna Fail and Fine Gael (with very few voting SF, SP, SWP, WP, etc).

by David Thu Mar 04, 2004 17:08

Simply put;
The cops, courts and government are sometimes impartial, but sometimes biased towards what they percieve as the will of the people.
and....
Some people in this country give a fuck about farmers (mainly other farmers and dependant industries).
and...
NOBODY gives a fuck about the anti-war protesters. Sorry to say it, but there it is.
Personally, I don't give a fuck about either.

by Al Thu Mar 04, 2004 17:16

I'm just telling you what the public perception is.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but people view anti-war activists as a threat, people do not view farmers as a threat.

Re: Bin Tax - this was spun as a health issue, people wanted their bins collected. The Gardai responded by attempting to quash the blockades... the blockades are gone. The bins are being collected.

Don't assume I am a bin-tax supporter just because I point out what many people care about is NOT what the bin-tax protesters care about....

by observer Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:10

Some of the comments above display an ignorance of rural life. Would it make anti-war protestors happy if a group of small farmers in one of the most deprived parts of the country were battered off the road by the Gardai? Mind you, I think you might find they would put up a bit more of a fight!

The issue itself is one where an important dairy research centre is being closed with serious implications both for the development of dairying in poor soil regions, and for the local economy. The locals are right to protest against this. As for their political affiliations, this issue has been raised in Leinster House by both SF and the SP, something that has not gone unnoticed by the people concerned. So less of this "kill the kulaks" nonsense.

by jeff Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:41

they put up a great scrap against the Gardai, and got their demnds seen to ( ie; protests against deaths on building sites)

It was 98/99, but they all ganged up outside the Four Courts.

Last year they had a more quieter protest.

Anyway, the rightists responding to this list DO have a point, most people do not care about the war. We saw 100,000 people protest, but that, in the minds of most people, is old hat.

Me personally, I feel Mr. Rice, et al, have legitimate points to make. The media will ignore this, or choose to act like trolls.

Most people worry about their bank balance. We are going through our Thatcherite period. There will be more laws being made, stating "you cannot do this" etc. The only laws that will allow us to do anything will be laws that will allow the wealthier of us to avoid tax.

It is the Thatcherite model of the trickle down factor.

I am living in the Netherlands at the moment, where unemployment stands at 10%. This is due to the world wide recession. In Ireland, however, the figure is much lower, and, during my last visit home during Xmas, I saw more and more building of leisure facilities, etc. The sort of stuff that indicates to me that there is still a lot of money flowing about, and the sort of stuff that makes me think FF might win again at the next election.

Personally, I feel FF will always win because of their big business connections and possible insider knowledge of how the economy works. I think Labour would do as just a good job as FF in taking charge, as witnessed by the Rainbow coalition, but the conservative Irish will always go with what they feel is the safer bet.

I'd rather the leftists get in, they tend to be kinder to poorer people, but that ain't going to happen in Eire Nua for a long time. I used to get real angry about this boring trend, but, no, I'll just be glad I don't live in Saudi Arabia, or even 100 miles up the road from Dublin...

by $=€ Fri Mar 05, 2004 13:00

A brief intro to insider big business terms:-employment presently stands at just over 8% in the EU. and just over 12% in the new states. This is not as a result of "a world recession". Because there is no "worldwide recession" at the moment. There is a "very big defecit" in the USA which is at about one trillion dollars and is backloaded, there is very little room for change in long term interest rates as the US economy is being run by those who seek higher efficiency and productivity (which on paper they have) with reduced labor costs. (this means job losses). This co-incides with Greenspan's vision of "full employment" at 4% (in the USA).
Europe however is not the USA, and due to the inflation of it's common currency has seen job insecurity, corporative relocation, and increased export costs. Europe has not offered a figure for "full employment" becuase it's economic theory to achieve such, "Lisbon" has been completely undermined by the macro-economic consequences of the Iraq War.
This in a small part explains why the dollar ralies against the euro at about tea time every friday and goes back to it's slide monday kitkat time. If things are looking "recessional" in Holland, it's because people sitting at computer screens in both Europe and the USA are unwilling to invest their magic tokens in European based enterprise.
it's not a recession.
it's the war.
it's not Bertie's fault, (hee hee) it's George W. Bush. Big money works just like how you were taught to use it when you were a little boy.
you select your counter, you avoid jail, you collect 200$ every time you pass go and of course "the highest throw starts".

by howard hughes Fri Mar 05, 2004 23:20

Now if you are so clued in to the workings of modern capital why don't you make it work financially by getting in to the stock market or taking positions on currency movements? You dont need to have big money you can do it on spread betting or online betting exchanges.

by hetty green - ;-) Sun Mar 07, 2004 14:20

i can sit at the slot by the door of the bar every morning and with eyes staring wide open drop ten euros into the flashing bright machine, I can buy the lottery tickets "luck for today", I can bet on governments, to go, to come in, to get more votes, I can forecast the olympics to dope not to dope, to run faster than the wind, I can do all these things, but I just can't get the fingernails.
Mr Hughes, the mormon mafia don't come cheap. ¿You _really_ were very special weren't you? Tell us more about yourself.