From The Newswire: After a recent Spotlight programme highlighting some of the anti-social behaviour practised by some students in the Holylands was broadcast - students organised a protest in the Holylands to tell their Mummies and Daddies that 'No we're not really misbehaving going wild and spending your money on e's and booze'. Where then would students like permanent Holyland residents to move to?

I am a Protestant woman from North Belfast, whose partner is a Catholic from the Short Strand. The Holylands is one of the only neutral working class housing executive areas available to mixed religion working class families. My neighbour was also a Protestant woman whose partner was a Catholic from the Lower Ormeau. My other neighbour was a Catholic from the Whiterock whose ex-partner is a Protestant from East Belfast. One of the other families' mother was from the Lower Falls and her ex-partner was a Protestant from Portadown. Some of the other permanent resident families are ex-students from the countryside who've setttled in the Holylands with their kids for many years.

A Debate on Punishment Beatings has broken out on the Indymedia Ireland Newswire as a result of a contribution from an INLA supporter rubbishing the connetion made in the media between INLA punishment beatings and suicides. This is one contribution to the ongoing debate from 'Aine' in Belfast.

"The young people involved in anti-social (not always criminal) behaviour are victims as well as the people affected by their behaviour. All are victims but surely the question is not who is the most worthy victim but how to stop young people engaging in this kind of unacceptable behaviour? Contrary to what has been said on this thread, there is NO evidence (apart from what we hear from apologists for punishment beatings) that working class communities WANT such attacks on their young people. I work with young people through a community group in a working class part of Catholic West Belfast and, honestly, people do want something done but ALL of them want something positive that will stop the young people getting in trouble in the first place.

Why is it that all the punishment attacks are in working class areas? Are better off kids better behaved? Of course not, but they are less likely to be on the streets, more likely to have their own rooms with computers etc and have the money to go to the cinema, leisure centres etc.

Something has to be done is the response from Tony Blair, David Blunkett and INLA apologists - especially the IRSP. So, they bring in Anti Social Behaviour Orders that can include Housing Benefit being cut if a family member is involved in anti-social behaviour - so leading to more poverty and more pressure on the youngster to steal to put food on the table if his mother is a lone parent. If people in the IRSP used as much energy seeking funding for youth projects or objecting to the fact that 16-17 year olds around here have NO income - their parents do not get a brass farthing towards their upkeep if they are not in full-time education or training - there would be a lot less crime and anti-social behaviour.

Of course, in spite of all the talk of people like me being middle-class for defending these young people's right not to be brutalised [I earn £13,500 a year and live in that middle-class paradise called Poleglass] the reality is that the so-called 'leaders' of the IRSP would not know what it means to be poor. Some of them have VERY middle class jobs and incomes and probably cannot imagine the stress faced by the families these young people come from."

Other Relevant Links
Slugger O'Toole Debate on Same Subject
Article on Ardoyne Suicides from An Phoblacht/Republican News