OscailtWhere Were The Protests Going Before They Were Gone?The weekly protests at the Dáil didn't last long -- but where they headed and how did the main players interract with them?
Breaking news: Italian MP, Sgarbi denounces the Statistical Fraud on COVID-19. The speech of the Member of Parliament Vittorio Sgarbi in the session of the Italian Camera, Meeting no. 331 of Friday 24, April, 2020. Vittorio Sgarbi, denounces the closure of 60% of the businesses for 25,000 COVID-19 Deaths, of which the National Institute of Health says 96.3% died NOT of COVID-19 but of other pathologies. That means only 925 have died of the virus. 24,075 have died of other things.2010-06-18T10:30:21+00:00Indymedia Irelandimc-ireland@lists.indymedia.iehttp://www.indymedia.ie/atomfullposts?story_id=97003http://www.indymedia.ie/graphics/feedlogo.gifDates mix uphttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705322010-06-18T10:30:21+00:00SéamusA number of dates in the piece above have been mixed up. The first Right to Work...A number of dates in the piece above have been mixed up. The first Right to Work rally, which included the scuffle at the gates of Leinster House, took place on Tuesday 11th May.<br />
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The second protest, on the Tuesday 18th May, was the also when the first "Anti-Capitalist Bloc" had been organised. This was a feeder march organised specifically to pass Anglo Irish Bank HQ, where three days earlier éirígí activists had been attacked by Gardaí with seven arrested during a peaceful protest against NAMA and the bailouts.<br />
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This march met with a heavy Garda presence trying to prevent the ACB from reaching Anglo Irish and thus Leinster House, and so the feeder march became as much about asserting the right to protest as it was about the economic situation.<br />
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In the end, I don't understand your surprise at the falling numbers (the law of diminishing returns would be a cruel mistress for a rally that was the exact same week in and week out) or organisations deciding that there were more productive things they could be doing on a Tuesday evening.<br />
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In the end, the SWP saw this as well and decided to call an end to the Right to Work rallies.Good analysis but...http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705332010-06-18T10:39:03+00:00TomásOBI have to say I enjoyed reading your analysis, thank you for sharing it.
I woul...I have to say I enjoyed reading your analysis, thank you for sharing it.<br />
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I would have one criticism though, I think the Anti-Capitalist Bloc(im not a member of any group involved just given an opinion) stopped attending the "Right to Work" protests because they seen it as just an other front for the SWP, just like the Anti-War Movement and People Before Profit, I find the "Right to Work" protests was just a platform for the SWP to get their point across, i know that they let Sinn Fein speak among others, but why not any spokesperson from the Anti-Capitalist bloc who have done great actions against the Bank bail outs? <br />
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eirigi, did an great action in the last few weeks and months and some of their members being arrested, I find the Anti-Capitalist Bloc are more affective compared to the "Right to Work" protests. I think that groups from the Anti-Capitalist bloc should have an equal say in the movement against the Bank bail outs and the SWP and SP should not think they are subservient to the Anti-Capitalist bloc groups. <br />
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Confusion regarding the anti-capitalist blockhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705472010-06-18T14:53:43+00:00JamesThe WSM and, as far as I'm aware, Eirigi or anybody else, never intended that an...The WSM and, as far as I'm aware, Eirigi or anybody else, never intended that anti-capitalist block stage weekly protests and never called for them to be so. The WSM considered from the outset that having weekly protests would lead to smaller rather than bigger demonstrations after a very short period of time. For this reason, we called for specific demonstrations rather than a series of open ended weekly ones.Your misapprehension means the basis of your argument regarding us is on a shaky basis, particularly the silly remark that "neglecting to inform a number of their supporters (although the Gardaí seem to have been notified)". It is difficult to cancel an event which doesn't exist.SWP/RTWC/IAWM/PBPA.... whats nexthttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705602010-06-18T17:57:07+00:00ConorI agree with James.
Also, yes the right to work campaign is another SWP front, ...I agree with James.<br />
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Also, yes the right to work campaign is another SWP front, but it's not gone yet. They have actually called for another demo -<br />
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''...after a series of sucessful protests at the Dail, will be returning to the streets next week to 'welcome' Brian Cowen as he arrives for the IBEC presidents dinner which is due to take place on Weds June 23rd at 6.30pm<br />
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<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/righttoworkireland/home/latest-news" title="http://sites.google.com/site/righttoworkireland/home/latest-news">http://sites.google.com/site/righttoworkireland/home/la...-news</a><br />
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One thing here is unusual, 'after a series of sucessful protests'. Are they serious?March [1]http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705822010-06-19T13:05:59+00:00JimI agree that it was a bit confusing for people who normally don't protest. Peopl...I agree that it was a bit confusing for people who normally don't protest. People were confused as to whether it was a weekly event or not. I genuinely don't think numbers matter, as long as there are people visibly marching (whether that's 50 or 5000). I know a lot of non-political people are mortgaged up to the hilt and are afraid. Seeing people march, no matter how small, shows people that they have someone at their back. Maybe I'm wrong.Not fully accuratehttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705862010-06-19T13:49:19+00:00sp memberA correction. The Socialist Party was not involved with the SWP in establishing ...A correction. The Socialist Party was not involved with the SWP in establishing the Right to Work campaign. The SWP established the campaign and then asked the SP to get involved. The SP said no on the basis that RTW had been established in a completely undemocratic way. The usual SWP method which is to set something up so that they comtrol it and then get others to get invovled on their terms. The SP has nothing to do with the RTW campaign. RTW is finished now. It may have another few protests but it has failed to meet the SWP's expectations of establishing a mass opposition movement to the government. Kieran Allen said the campaign's aim was to bring down the government. This ridiculous statement exposes the SWP's leaderships frivolous and cavalier approach to politics.Two-a-Penny.http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705872010-06-19T13:50:40+00:00Realist."I agree that it was a bit confusing for people who normally don't protest."
I ..."I agree that it was a bit confusing for people who normally don't protest."<br />
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I have to bring you sad news:<br />
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Most peope don't pay a blind bit of notice to protests outside the Dail.<br />
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They are " Two for a Penny and Three-for-Sixpence".<br />
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Thankshttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705912010-06-19T14:23:15+00:00Diarmuid BreatnachFair comments from everyone and thanks for them. Apologies if dates were inaccur...Fair comments from everyone and thanks for them. Apologies if dates were inaccurate but the sequence remained the same. I never said that I was surprised at the numbers falling (in fact, I said that they stayed about the same) and in fact I wasn’t. Numbers are not the most important thing at all times but they often are a very important factor. Nor is it necessarily the case that numbers must necessarily decrease; there are many examples where they have risen and even led to important victories for the protesters. It may be that the Anti-Capitalist Bloc demonstrations were never intended to be weekly but in the context of ongoing demonstrations at the Dáil and two consecutive ACB demonstrations it was natural that there was an expectation that they would continue, in the absence of any announcement to the contrary.<br />
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However, the most important part of the article I thought was about the interraction between the different forces among the protesters and the work that needed to have been done long before and still remains to be done.March [2]http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2705922010-06-19T14:41:06+00:00JimI agree with you that most people don't pay attention to protests outside the Da...I agree with you that most people don't pay attention to protests outside the Dail. But some people do, and I think there's no harm in marching through the centre to demonstrate that that some people have a definite opinion on the economy.Soap Boxes not Closed Platforms...give it a go!http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2706132010-06-20T07:37:44+00:00CiaronThax DB for going to the time and trouble of reflecting on these events.
To th...Thax DB for going to the time and trouble of reflecting on these events. <br />
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To the revolutionary, protest movements are only as relevant as they express solidarity with resistance and as usual little on the Dublin Left little is relevant...whether it was this RTW and the lack of solidarity expressed with (or platform offered to) those who were engaged with NVDA at the AIB, whether it was the recent Palestine solidarity manifestations and the lack of solidarity expressed with those on trial in Belfast and Bristol for NVDA during the bombing of Gaza or whether it was the long lost years of the Irish Anti War Movement and the marginalisation and censorship of those who took action at Shannon Airport and were in tension with t he state and before the courts for years.<br />
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A subculture of sectarian competition for what is perceived as a limited "left market" (along with all the expressions of marketing that one runs the gauntlet at sucjhdemonstrations where prime target audience is gathered) undermined a more expansive culture of solidarity with those moving in resistance. As you point out........<br />
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"usual aspects notable in these situations: jockeying for position, promotion of one’s own organisation at the cost of joint working, attacking one another, exclusion of individuals seen as problematic, manipulation, setting short-term targets which when not achieved left the movement with no follow-on strategy, never mind tactics."<br />
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RTW Tuesday demos, quickly replaced by Palestine silidarity, replaced by the next wave to surf. We are called to these manifestations to play the role of passive extras on a set while the small left groups who have successfully jockeyed for platform positiions get to play rick star and preach to us the captive audience. Yep it was a bit weird to be invited along to the ACB and see our hosts (WSM & Eirigri) drift off before the party was over....made ya feel a little dispensible at the time. As a good OZ Trot once explained to me "there are comrades and there are periphery!"..........<br />
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Once you've been to these demonstrations for a while and played the role of passive extra it all wears a bit thin. You either stop going or you go to socialise with like minded folk on the edge of the crowd or if your in an organisation I guess you go to recruit and sell the paper primarily.<br />
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I think they should call one of these things, disgard the rock stars and centralised platform and invite people and groups to bring soap boxes, and go for it with unamplified sounds and plenty of interaction, questioning and clarification and debate about the crisis and respnses to it. But such a proposal would require an imagination that just doesn't seem to be there among those who run and benefit form these exhausted left rituals.<br />
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clarificationhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2706302010-06-21T02:20:13+00:00Diarmuid BreatnachJust like to make it clear that when I posted my reply to comments, the posts of...Just like to make it clear that when I posted my reply to comments, the posts of neither "SP member" nor "Realist" were yet visible.brillienthttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2706322010-06-21T03:06:52+00:00drthats a brillient idea about the soap boxes cirian.
when SF went through its no...thats a brillient idea about the soap boxes cirian.<br />
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when SF went through its not bothering to go to protests phaze there was a lot of theese frustrations at the time. one suggestion to get around it was that instead of 20 speakers all the groups sign an agreed statment and one person reads it out. but your idea might be a bit more practical and admit self interest., which is better. instead of trying to deny intstincts, understand them.Irish workers don't want to knowhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2706422010-06-21T14:54:06+00:00big pictureYour analysis is interesting Diarmaid. You make some interesting points about th...Your analysis is interesting Diarmaid. You make some interesting points about the various little groups putting their interests before class interests, however that does not address the disinterest that is there among the general public. Even if these groups were able to see the bigger picture that disinterest would still be there. Doing the work that you talk about will not fix the problem or working harder wont work either. There are problems with the small parties and also with their working methods that is true, but the main problem is that the workers don't want to hear the politics that any of them are promoting.Workers have shown they want changehttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2706932010-06-23T04:07:42+00:00Diarmuid BreatnachThanks for the various comments.
The argument that the workers don't want to st...Thanks for the various comments. <br />
The argument that the workers don't want to struggle to defend their interests, much less for revolutionary change, has been around for a long time. But it keeps being proven wrong. Were 100,000 plus workers marching on Dublin's street in order to say that they didn't want to fight the government and their employers? Were the majority in the big unions who voted for a general strike doing that to show their contentment and/ or passivity? They were betrayed by those who claim to be their leaders and we, on the revolutionary left, have not given them an alternative that they can have confidence in. To provide that remains our task.an alternative..http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2706982010-06-23T11:56:24+00:00opus diablos...that they can have confidence in.No indeed.I've been brushing with the self-a......that they can have confidence in.No indeed.I've been brushing with the self-anointed 'revolutionary Left' for a half century at least, back to the pontifications of the red-book weilding Maoists of the mid-sixties, and the reason they dont(and wont) gain my confidence is because they apply 19th century analytical tools to twenty-first century problems.If you talk down to people dont be so surprised when they refuse to listen up.If you listened in the last month you might have been as pleasantly surprised as I was to find outrage from the most unexpected quarters at the savagery of the flotilla interception off Gaza. A little self-analysis with the social critique might balance the argument.Unless it is a regimented society of clones with heads full of ideological rectitude you wish to revolve.Listen to radio China (or Moscow pre 89) for a taste of that wished for revolution you should be careful of.Mussolini and Adolf galloped in on 'revolutionary' chariots too.Dont get me wrong.I'd rather take my chances in Fidel's Cuba than Papa and Baby's Haiti. But the Irish peasant memory of revolution betrayed will not be extinguished by firebrand slogans and simplistic formulae of sociological abstraction. As me uncle Nero used to put it, Rome wasn't burnt in a day.Tog go bog e.anti capitalist bloc again?http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2707212010-06-23T19:12:16+00:00independent republican.i attended the first anti-capitalist bloc demo in dublin,which i thought was a v...i attended the first anti-capitalist bloc demo in dublin,which i thought was a very good initiative and i thought it was great to see the various organisations like wsm, eirigi,32csm,irsp,and independent anarchists aswell as independent republicans like myself coming together to show the state that we are not afraid to march on the streets<br />
and defend our rights as citizens against the heavy handed attacks by members of the gardai.<br />
i think it was a positve initiative that these various groups found some common ground with which to work together on.no doubt there is plenty of bickering and bitching goes on behind the scenes. i thought it was a pity that the whole idea just fizzled out,which it did,here's hoping the 'acb' idea is used in the future for areas which all anti-capitalists would agree on such as:<br />
1.rossport solidarity 2.palestinian solidarity. 3 solidarity with republican prisoners in maghaberry. 4.any anti'capitalist initiative. 5.any anti fascist anti racist anti imperialist initiative. finding areas that we agree on should be easier to find than areas we disagree on<br />
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a good idea like the anti capitalist bloc shouldnt be allowed to just fizzle out that easily..Little fear..http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2707682010-06-24T15:00:18+00:00opus diablosOf it fizzling out.But the arguments need to be refined a bit.And rather than co...Of it fizzling out.But the arguments need to be refined a bit.And rather than concentrating strictly on the anti- department, it might draw a bit more support if the alternatives to current practise were addressed.All anti is not leadership, its Luddite nay-saying.Capitalism does continuing damage and is increasingly a threat to the very biosystems that sustain us and it, but it was not Marx, Stalin or Mao that produced the keyboards we tap.<br />
Qualify the jargon with more specifics and a lot of the internal divisions may just turn out to be verbal.And the sea of apathy might even shrink like the Aral.<br />
Oh and if it all fizzled out tomorrow, the powers that be would re-instal structures to justify their security budgets.The'Right' is far more sophisticated and complex than many 'Leftists' credit.Right to Work ???http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2707742010-06-24T17:08:03+00:00CuriousI have never attended any of these demos which iv seen advertised around the cit...I have never attended any of these demos which iv seen advertised around the city until only recently when I heard about the first demo on the news the evening after the attempted sit in at the Dail.Myself and my brother decided we head into the next one,which we did.<br />
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Was really impressed with the numbers which I taught would be much smaller for what reason i dont know,but it was great to see.I listened to the speeches and left happy to have come.Brother couldnt make it the following week but decided to head in on me own anyway.<br />
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As i said this was now my 2nd demo to have ever attended,I left about 25 mins in after speaker after speaker called for an election now,no mention of the peoples right to work,i am an unemployed plumber who qualified 2 years ago and was let ago as soon as,as my wages would have rose,no more cheap labour for my employer.<br />
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Anyway thats my tuppence worth.opus is spot on, the propaganda is old and boringhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2708682010-06-28T12:51:27+00:00aunty diatribeAs a new kid on the bloc I have read Che and Mao and Connolly and they could wri...As a new kid on the bloc I have read Che and Mao and Connolly and they could write in a non boring way. But the left in Ireland uses the most boring stuff they can find which is trotskyism. it just puts everyone to sleep. I see no hope for the current Irish left and I have gone to most marches in the past 3 years, most of them were a disaster apart from the 100,000 one the unions decided to go ahead with and a couple of the anti war ones were good, the rest were useless and it is no wonder most people dont bother to turn up to them anymore.RTW hasn't gone away you know!http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2709312010-06-29T20:03:30+00:00Some people think differentlyHere's a video from last week's RTW protest when loadsa people showed up. I don'...Here's a video from last week's RTW protest when loadsa people showed up. I don't see much passivity going on here. Who else has had the imagination, creativity and capacity to maintain and hold these events but all the people in the rightowork campaign. <br />
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Stop whining and do something! You doing no one any favours. As Bob Dylan says <br />
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" Your old road is rapidly agin'.<br />
Please get out of the new one<br />
If you can't lend your hand<br />
For the times they are a-changin'."Will the broad, non-sectarian and democratic fighting organisation by built?http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97003#comment2710722010-07-05T04:03:49+00:00Diarmuid Breatnach"Some people" leaves a comment clearly attacking some contributor but doesn't sa..."Some people" leaves a comment clearly attacking some contributor but doesn't say whom. However, s/he is incorrect to say that there were "loads of people" on the most recent RTW march, as anyone who was there should know.<br />
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Interestingly, at the rally at the end, speakers from SWP, SP and WSM all gave the call for building workers' industrial resistance organisations (or grassroots union organisation, if you like). In my article above I said that building such organisations is what has not been done but what is urgently needed. It is good to see agreement about this among such a wide section of the Irish Left but the question remains: Will they repeat the mistakes of the past or facilitate the building of a genuine broad, non-sectarian and democratic fighting organisation with short and medium-term goals to work towards?