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dublin |
animal rights |
event notice
Wednesday July 29, 2009 23:27
by Laura Broxson - National Animal Rights Association
naracampaigns at gmail dot com
PO Box 11019, Dublin 2
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Comments (14 of 14)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14Laura Broxson - National Animal Rights Association says:
".....these poor horses are used against their will for these stupid competitions, as well as the fact that most of the people involved in this event are participants in bloodsports and horse racing."
maverick replies:
"poor horses!" - for God's sake cop on to yourself. how do you know that these equine kings & queens are used against their will? can you back up such a sentimentalist statement?
can you give me percentages of Horse Show participants that are involved with bloodsports? will you include spectators in your statistics?
why not be fair to many, or even some of those Horse Show participants? some, or many have NOTHING to do with bloodsports or horse racing.
tally-ho! what!
Of course they are used against their will. They cannot give consent. They have no choice. They jump or end up in a slaughterhouse, for the most part. Not that they even realise that option.... If they don't jump, then they are eliminated.
Those who do jump suffer injury. Especially in Ireland as the Olympic fella proved. Hores jumping is, arguably, even more cruel than horse racing...... Both are cruel and therefore wrong.
Why bring spectators into the equation? They have no clue what goes on behind the scenes. They, untill they know, are innocent. I think the idea of these protests is to educate. I went to the horse show once and my GOD!!!! had I realised what went on I would have spit on it.
They do of course buy tickets, hence the need for education. As for hunt scum being involved, I am certainly no statistician (and do not represent NARA), but I see the same ugly faces at hunts, race meets and jumping events. Please do not try to say that all three are seperate industries as that is plainly ridiculous! Obviously not all horsey people are cruel scum, but the industries are all dominated by them for sure. If you think otherwise you are plainly stupid or plainly deluded. Or perhaps palinly trolling.....
CATLADY says:
"They jump or end up in a slaughterhouse, for the most part. Not that they even realise that option.... If they don't jump, then they are eliminated."
Maverick replies:
what a ridiculous statement: "They jump or end up in a slaughterhouse". it's not black or white. some go for jolly trots on leafy lanes, some bring tourists up the airy mountain & down the rushy glen. some pull jaunting carts in cosy Killarney. and some chew the cud on the Curragh of Kildare.
eliminated??! that sounds a bit genocidal. i really need proof of that claim.
CATLADY says:
"....but I see the same ugly faces at hunts, race meets and jumping events."
Maverick replies:
aw, come on! ugly faces?? a little bit bitchy. i find many of the faces at the RDS Horse Show most attractive, particularly at the Dressage Events. horsey looks are so refreshing to behold.
http://www.naracampaigns.org/showjumping.html
right lets get things straight here.. your saying that the majority of people who use horses for competition are cruel??? i see where ur coming from but i totally disagree because i know people who are jumping their top class show horses at national and international level and they treat their horses the exact same way as a scruffy little pony clubber would treat their fluffy little pony----->lots of TLC
Agree with Shelly;
I know personally an Irish show jumper and can attest that they treat the horses very well. Horses are intelligent creatures and if you don't treat them right, they will literally get annoyed with you and under perform/throw you off/act up. In order to get the most out of your horse, it has to be kept in good conditions and treated well, not only by human standards but by horse standards as well. Of course this is only my personal experience, and can not vouch for all horsie types.
Also, it may be a surprise, but horses actually like to jump. You leave a show horse in a field with jumps and it will run around and jump with no rider.
"as well as the fact that most of the people involved in this event are participants in bloodsports and horse racing."
Actually, the show horse crowd is quite separate from the racing crowd. And it isn't a 'fact' that most are involved in bloodsports, this is just your precognition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact
Catlady
"Of course they are used against their will. They cannot give consent. They have no choice."
They do have a choice- see above. Horses aren't dumb animals as you may think, if they don't want to do something, you know about it. Again, my own experience but show horses frequently excitedly get into the horse box as they know they are going to a show of some sorts.
"They jump or end up in a slaughterhouse, for the most part."
Where do you find this info? Seems a little antiquated and wrong. All of these horses are valuable as stock after they can't jump anymore. If a horse breaks its leg, only then do they destroy it (so long as break is severe). Due to the complicated nature of equine physiology, it is actually more humane to put it down then what it has in store in future.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/24/1035416931....html
"Please do not try to say that all three are seperate industries as that is plainly ridiculous!"
As I said, show horses and horse racing are separate crowds, with some of the show horsie types dabbling in hunts but racers usually don't (again, my experience). I suppose they would be considered same industry as they both use horses.....
I can't believe some of the things being said here!
I agree with the fact that horses love to jump, if they didnt want to, they wouldn't as many people including professional showjumpers have found out when they end up with their arse on the ground and the horse going the other way.
I myself have found that when a horse doesn't want you to be doing something, he or she will let you know. Again you will find yourself on the ground. Remeber there is half a ton of horse underneath you, you are going to give it come respect!
I was at the Dublin horse show and never once saw any piece of cruelty to any of the horses, in fact it was a wonderful, which was enjoyed fully by all. Those people were probably made up of people from every horsey sphere, eventing, showjumping, dressage, showing, pleasure riding, hunting and racing, so we shouldn't be lumped together.
I don't agree with bloodsports, but this is purely for the effect it has on other animals, not the horse, but with the hunting ban this has lessened the effect.
With your slaughter statements, how many horses do you know that have been sent straight to the knackers yard straight after a showjumping course that it hasnt done well in? And if a horse is beaten by his rider at a competition, this rider is punished severly by the organisers. Creulty is not accepted by anyone who truly loves these horses.
I also know of and work with some sanctuaries that save horses from these yards, and they're aim is to rehabilitate these horses to be ridden again. if they can't be rehabilitated then they are turned out to pasture for a full and healthy life.
And if we stop all these competitions what do you propose we do with these unridden horses? Let them run wild? Let's see how many accidents are caused because of this.
There are certainly are some things that need to be sorted out, but inflammatory language like this does not help.
I really think you should do your research before you perform a protest in aid of sporting horse!!!!!
I have worked within the horse industry for 12 years, I have worked in riding schools, showjumping yards and racing yards.
People who put up with the awful hours, grueling work load, injuries and dreadful wages do it because they truly LOVE and respect horses.
I personally have slept in stables with sick horses and have know many a yard worker to do the same even though there is no financial or personal gain other than helping a friend. (ie the horse)
Jumping horses have to be brave, honest and above all LOVE jumping, very few horses are capable of jumping Grand prix the ones that can are born to jump. I have seen yearlings jump post and rail fencing for fun, (a yearling is a one year old horse at this age they would not have been ridden or trained to jump and would have had very little to do with humans)
As far as racing goes a good race horses loves there job they pull and pull on the reins to let them run as fast as they can. There are far more race horses injured at home than on the track and this is again from them running a muck in the fields or from being very fresh on the home track, its not because anyone is running them too hard or being cruel. They want to run and play and are naturally competitive.
I have come across horses that where sour and the decision was taken (by a professional showjumper) to turn them out to pasture. They where brothers and both very mean spirited and ignorant so they where just kept as companion horses.
The horse industry in Ireland is the 4th largest employer if you include the ancillary business attached to it ie farriers, feed companies, vets and betting. The Equine industry employs more people that water and electricity.
We are also one of the biggest producers of horses in the world, because Irish horses and horse workers are so professional and highly regarded.
I really think the people who are considering holding protests against the horse industry should spend some time inveestigating the industry.
I would be very happy to have you come out to the race track any morning and see exactly what goes on or even have a ride out at a yard i used to work on.
The horses are treated better than the staff and very much Loved
These discussions - on Indymedia Ireland, but elsewhere as a general matter - tend to get bogged down in animal welfarism and the issue of how the enslaved are treated. This is entirely understandable, however, because the main way we are brought up and encouraged to view issues about the use of animal property is through the lens of animal welfare.
Even in deeply speciesist society - and Ireland is saturated in speciesist norms and values - animal welfare is the dominant paradigm by which we judge issues. This explains why we see so many references to how well the animals seems, or how cruel their treatment is, or that they are loved. Many slave-owners have loved or respected their chattel to some extent but that misses the rights-based point.
Animal rights theory sees nonhuman animals, at least many of them, as rights bearers - what is done to them in events such as horse racing, or show jumping, is a violation of rights. This is a claim that speciesist society has trouble dealing with and, typically, since they can do no other, animal users respond with statements about welfare. In terms of this event at the RDS, we can judge how speciesist society is by recognising, not only that thousands attend to watch, but many will have been wearing leather or wool, eating animal body parts and drinking the stolen baby food of cows at the same time. In a society in which the use of animal property is so ingrained it is not surprising that many people exiting the RDS were apparently mystified by a demonstration about animals.
If we are really interested to have a discussion about the merit or otherwise of the animal rights case, then we must move beyond animal welfarism which is posited on the notion that non-cruel use is possible and desirable. The level of cruelty involved, the degree of "love" shown, a concern of "humane treatment," misses the animal rights critique of animal use. At the present time, the notion of animal rights sounds as strange as the rights of human slaves and the rights of women have done in the past. It is hoped that animal rights advocates in Ireland can find ways of making their case without getting stuck in the muddy waters of animal welfare.
Even in deeply speciesist society!!!
ahahahaahah how ridiculous why don't you go ask a lion not to be so speciesist to a dear!!!! hilarious!!
oh and why your at why get a real word!!!
Eilo. I can understand that you may have difficulty appreciating the notion of speciesism - many people do. However, from an animal rights point of view, we do live in a specisist society. We do things to nonhuman animals that most of us at least would not dream of doing to other human ones.
Why would I ask a lion about deer? A lion does not act in a speciesist manner - and does no wrong - getting her dinner. Lions are obligate carnivores and thus have the perfect excuse for killing to eat. We, however, are not in that situation. Moreover, human animals are capable of moral reflection - we are supposed to think about what is right and wrong, whereas many people believe nonhuman animals cannot do that, or else can do it in a very limited fashion.
There is nothing hilarious about speciesism - it is the basis on which we as a society enslave millions of other sentient beings. Animal rights theory offers a critique of that and claims it to be wrong. There is nothing funny about violence or exploitation either.
for stopping me in my tracks and reminding me of my ethics. I wish I could be as rational as you and not fly off handles!
You said it all perfectly I think.... horsies (much as I love them to cuddle me) are not ours to use or abuse.
this just makes for comical reading in fairness. It is so evident that you have not the knowledge nor the concrete evidence to support your arguments. Let me put this to you - if you are not concerned about animal welfare, or at least if this is not you're primary concern regarding horse competitions and the primary concern is regarding horses being used for things 'unnatural', well then what do you propose to do about dogs? How about dogs who do showing classes? Dogs who do the jumping (agility) classes... oh god, how awful! How about the fact that these dogs really truely enjoy doing these types of activities? Should dog owners be banned from 'using' their best friends like this? It is exactly the same thing for the majority of horses. My old pony would do her circling exercises on her own in the FIELD without me on her when she got bored! I even caught her jumping the jumps on her own a few times.. why? because she loved to jump! All i had to do was steer her round the course, she only had to be pointed in the direction of a jump and she was gone! Many horses love going for treks and gallops.. why should we not enjoy the symbiotic relationship we have with our horses without people with no knowledge to support their arguements interfering and critising us?
I fail to see anything comical about abuse of any kind. this particular thread is about horse abuse. I'm sure there are others about dog abuse if you wish to go read them.
I'm glad your pony is happy and enjoys jumping. I'm also glad she is (apparently) not part of an industry of horrific exploitation of brood mares, teaser stallions and ever weakening brittle bones. Good for her/him. I hope you keep her/him and care for her/him till she/he dies of old age. That is the best we can do for the non-humans in our care.
Please explain your reasons for presuming that I do not have experience of either dogs or horses. I have years of experience of both, as a matter of fact. I know many (of both species) enjoy jumping, agility and so on. This is NOT, however, an excuse to exploit them and perpetuate an essentially exploitative industry. Go explain to a teaser stallion gone stark raving bloody mad how good a time he has it......