Freegan Debate on Radio

Transcribed from Today FM's 'The Last Word' 2008.5.23

'what Freganism is about…is having self-sustaining communities where you’re sharing the things that you don’t need to the people who do'.

'.this ridiculous notion that money makes the world go ‘round - when sharing, really could..'

Below is a transcription of a debate between a Freegan (Alf Montague) and a modernist extremist (Feidhlim McAleer).

Alf Montague: A Freegan is somebody who tries to limit their involvement in the whole economic system as much as possible, certainly with regard to reducing consumption, being willing to live simply, recycling, making use of things that often, people throw away; and just recognizing how there’s a finite amout of resources to go around in the world – so to try not to be greedy and selfish and take more than we need, really; it’s as simple as that.

Matt Cooper: So, how do you live your life as a freegan?

AM: Me personally, I chose to quit my job back in ’99 when I was working as an accounts executive, basically paid to manipulate people in a marketing and design company, and just choose to act as a volunteer really. I get onto the streets most days and just get into conversations with people, do such things as free work; you give out information and literature that’s trying to raise awareness about various issues; get involved in projects; just try to have the motivation for doing things; not to be dependent on getting paid for things, but because I really believe in them and believe it’s right.

MC: Well, how do you live then? Where do you live? How do you eat?

AM: Sure, well, at the moment I’m living in a camper-van though over the last six/seven years I have lived everything from the street, people’s houses, various community squats as well. About 95% of all the food and other resources that I need on a daily basis, come from such things as the backs of supermarkets and from skips. There’s an incredible amount that we throw out in the West: just recenlly, there was a very detailed report in the UK, and just from household waste, we’re actually throwing away £10.2bn-worth of food every year; £6bn is actually useable; £1bn is within is within its ‘best before’ or ‘use by’ date. So, I just find an incredible quantity of perfectly useable food that are literally, thrown out.

MC: Have you ever had any health problems as a result of this food that you’er getting out of the refuse tin…sacks?

AM: Funny enough yeah, [?I’ve said] a few times, and the ironic thing is that; the only time I can really actually remember being sick in the last ten years, is when I was bought food from a fast-food shop. You just need to use your common sense really; just to try and take precautions as well, like, obviously, fish items just leave alone; or if you see packaging that’s puffed up, it’s probably got bacteria; but just give it a thin wipe of bleach water [?] if it’s got packaging; rince vegetables and fruits; use your nose and your other faculties like your eyes, and if it looks dodgy, chuck it out. Just applying that common sense and taking precautions, you can reduce the risk of health-problems, probably moreso, actually, than putting blind faith in all the things that weget from the fronts of the supermarket.

MC: Do the supermarkets every try and stop you raiding their bins to take out the food that they’ve thrown away, because you’re taking it for nothing?

AM: Obviously, there’s a mixtuer of reactions, though on a number of occasions, store-managers have actually encouraged us to do it, because I think they feel guilty chucking so much away. On a purely economic level, you’re actually saving them money because they have to pay for their waste that they get disposed to land-fill or incineration; and the cost to the environment it saves as well: I mean, again, if you take all the UK food out of the land-fill, it would, in effect, cut down emissions to the rate of taking one in five cars off the road. So, there are so many different levels at which it just makes sense to make use of that waste…

MC: We have another guest with us – a documentary maker – Feidhlim McAleer. Feidhlim, what do you make of this war against waste?

FMA: Well, as someone who makes films in the developing world, I don’t know whether to feel sad or angry for this philosophy and these people who espouse it. I mean, they hate modernity, I supose; that’s what it’s all about; they hate industrialisation; they think that modern society has somehow lost its soul; but their organization wouldn’t exist without modernity in all of its…how its creation[?], and you know, they talk about voluntary joblessness and giving it up, btu their whole way of life is based on someone somewhere, working, producing and creating…

MC: In what way? the sense that there wouldn’t be the things to take out of the refuse tips if somebody else wasn’t engaged in the whole capitalist economic system in the first place.

FMA: Exactly! If someone wasn’t engaged in this ‘orrible’ (as they say) capitalist system of producing and inventing and innovating; and that goes from better food to better medicines; don’t forget this; if these people didn’t exist (who they despise), then their whole system wouldn’t exist. they’ve a wonderful website, and their organization is created through a website; but they use the tools of modernity to condemn modernity.

MC: Let me put that back to Alf Montague: aren’t you taking advantage of the very things you condemn? If everybody was to become a fregan, well, you couldn’t, because there wouldn’t be the supermarkets for you to raid the food out of the bin from.

AM: First of all, no-one’s condemning anybody; and I think those kind of terms that that person [FMA] has just shared about – those conservative views – they’re just not very helpful. What we’re here is just to try and do some very simple things; just trying to have a different motivation for living. It’s very simple; we’re here just to encourage one another just to reduce consumption. We all fall short of the ideals that we profess; but that’s part of it, just to encourage one another to do more. But, this whole point that we’re dependent on the waste generated by the capitalist system, is utter misnomer; to quote ghandi ‘the world’s got enough resources, if everybody just shared them, rather than just taking more than they need’[quote?], and what Freganism is about, is going into community; having self-sustaining communities where you’re sharing the things that you don’t need to the people who do. This ridiculous notion that money makes the world go ‘round, when sharing, really, could.

MC: Okay, I’m going back to finish with you FMA, can you match Ghandi?

FMA: If he ever lived in a self-sustaining community, he’d want to get out of it immediately; I’ve been to them; they’re called poverty-stricken villages in the Third World. Anyone who lives in one of these so-called self-sustaining communities, needs to, wants to get out of there immediately. Basically, it’s a parasitical philosophy; it’s based on pretending to be anti-capitalist, whil e leeching off the crumbs of capitalism; in a sort of self-denial of ‘oh, I’m holider than thou and aren’t I great’ kind of way; and it’s fine; that’s alright; they’re all middle class and it’s all well and good; they live with their parents and it’s great. If such guys ever met someone whoever actually depended on scraps for their livelihood or to feed their children and told them about his way of life in the developed world, they would think they’re mad; they would think they’re some kind of strange people, and I suppose they are because they’re turning their back on modernity.