raytheon 9 Ireland War and The Arms Trade 8PM

by End the arms trade Wed Apr 23, 2008 22:04

becoming more mainstream. The dirty little secret of Irish involvement in the arms trade is finally being brought out into the open. Well done to the Raytheon 9!

by Bronterre O'Brien Thu Apr 24, 2008 01:59

CTL, based in Galway, Ceo, Dr. O Bradaigh does research for Lockheed, Raytheon and Boeing.
http://www.entemp.ie/press/2005/20051006.htm

Rivada Networks, owned by Libertas' Declan Ganley, is closely connected to the U.S. military-industrial complex. Its also based in Galway.
http://www.rivada.com/about/keypersonnel/declanjganley.htm

Republicans and socialists should oppose this incursion of the merchants of death into Ireland. They are a clear and present danger to Irish neutrality and independence.

Eamonn McCann has interesting things to say about Ahern and his support for the U.S. war mongers.

"Economics apart, Ahern has facilitated a million US troops passing through Shannon en route to the oil war which has claimed as many as a million Iraqi lives. He leaves office with their blood on his hands. He has refused to acknowledge, much less take action against, CIA ‘planes carrying kidnap victims to torture sites landing in the Republic."

http://www.sundayjournal.ie/eamonn-mccann/The-most-ruth...age=3

O Bradaigh and Ganley are threats to Irish self-determination.

by truth Thu Apr 24, 2008 02:28

You own link, states that that the company in question signed a deal with the " leading supplier of major airframe structures for the civil aerospace industry." CIVIL, not military. and that "The company's main markets are in aerospace, wind-energy, automotive and Formula 1 racing." But then this has been pointed out to you before, no?

by B.O'B Thu Apr 24, 2008 16:01

Bae Systems is the premier global defense and aerospace company.

Composite materials are dual use.

Only the willfully obtuse or the incorrigibly ignorant would believe that the materials tested by CTL are used solely for non-military use.

by ffs Thu Apr 24, 2008 18:25

So, should the production of safety mechanisms cease as it may be used in military craft as well? bronterre this has been looked into by people who ,unlike you, actually live in Ireland, and what you say isnt true. you have a personal agenda and are desperate to make a link that simply isnt there. They are involved in wind energy and a by product of that is testing WIND RESISITANCE that s why its work involves planes to racing motorcars. So besides forwarding green energy they are also making sure that the airplane you use if ever you wish to come visit wil stay in the air. Please try to be honest you are repeatedly caught out on this site.

by B.O'B Fri Apr 25, 2008 00:29

CTL tests composite materials for the largest 'defence' companies.

To suggest that these composite materials are only used in civilian aircraft is nonsense.

Raytheon assured Derry City Council that its plant in Derry was not involved in military-related production. We know they were lying.

Are we to believe that the composites materials tested by CTL are never used in military aircraft.? These are dual use materials, and to believe otherwise is inane.

CTL, subsidized by the British and Irish governments, is providing an essential research service to the merchants of death. Those who try to obfuscate this reality are, like Ganley and O Bradaigh, subversive of Irish democracy and self-determination

by McLaughlin Fri Apr 25, 2008 04:21

Any advance in any technology will make its way there, however it is a long jump in logic to attempt to link a company engaged in experimental wind resistance too munitions/arms. You are not dealing with the actuality of the matter even when its put out right in front of you.

by Plotinus Fri Apr 25, 2008 05:22

You know of course that many things have dual use?
Should no one work in the field of areonautics as it might be used for military purposes?
What about freeze drying food? The military might use it!
What about better ways to make clothes? The military might make uniforms with it!
Think about what your saying. Theres no logic to it.
As the poster above states do YOU fly on aircraft? As the same advances are used? And you want nothing to do with them.

by Bronterre O'Brien Fri Apr 25, 2008 19:19

The bulk of the profits of the merchants of death come from the military: for example, 90% of Raytheon's profits derive from the military. The 'logic' of the above posters amounts to saying that because Raytheon derives 10% of its profits from non-military activity we should ignore its involvement in war-related activity.
Obvious nonsense.

The composties materials research being done by CTL is research essential for the Anglo-American war machine.

CTL and Rivada have clear connections to the Anglo-American warmongers. These connections are a threat to Irish democracy and self-determination.

The political connections of Ganley and O Bradaigh should be seen in this light.

by tilting at windmills Fri Apr 25, 2008 19:33

Bronterre you are are not making any sense. CTL is involved in wind technology, correct? A by product of that is testing material for weakness by seeing how it stands against wind pressure. This is known as wind resistance. They arent building munition components but helping make (though they dont actually make anything) sure that travel is safer as it is used for civilian aircraft down to race cars. That is what they are doing. Will any advance end up being used for military purposes. Of course as they are in any and every field. Youre taking great leaps but not landing.

by Bronterre O'Brien Sat Apr 26, 2008 18:54

CTL is the "the preferred testing laboratory for all composite material testing requirements for BAE."

BAE delivers " major structures solutions for the primes, which include Airbus, Boeing, Raytheon, Cessna and Lockheed."

BAE "is the premier global defence and aerospace company."

You are of course free to make the argument that some of the composites tested by CTL for Raytheon, Cessna and Lockheed are used for civilian as well as military purposes. But this is true for all dual use products. And on this so-logic there should be no protests against Raytheon or any other of the death merchants.

Those who believe in Irish democracy and self-determination will continue to expose the military/political connections of Ganley, McAvaddy, and O Bradaigh to the Anglo-American imperial project.

by Plotinus Sun Apr 27, 2008 09:21

Bronterre O'Brien,
You are not using reason you are using a logical fallacy known as tautology.

A tautology is an argument that utilizes circular reasoning, which means that the conclusion is also its own premise. The structure of such arguments is A=B therefore A=B, although the premise and conclusion might be formulated differently so it is not immediately apparent as such.

You are saying that the research could be used for military projects and that makes the researcher a "Merchant of Death".
One does not follow the other.

And please answer the question from the above post.

by Bronterre O'Brien Sun Apr 27, 2008 18:47

"There are none so blind as those who will not see"

CTL, whose CEO is Dr. Conchur O Bradaigh, is testing composite materials for the worlds leading arms manufacturers. (This is a fact)

These materials are dual use, that is, they can be used for civilian or military purposes. (Another fact)

Just because they can be used to for civilian aircraft does not rule out their use for military aircraft (also true)

To suggest that the merchants of death, who employ O Bradaigh to do research on composite materials, do not use these materials in military aircraft is laughable.

Those who deny that CTL is being paid by the Anglo-American military/industrial machine to provide an essential service for its death-dealing activity are suffering from cognitive dissonance,-- brought on by the psychological discomfort created by this fact and its contradiction with O Bradaigh's political connections.

Prepare yourselves for more as those who believe in Irish self-determination expose all collaborators with Ango-American imperialism.

by Stop the arms trade Mon Apr 28, 2008 18:15 Derry

I have to agree Bronterre O'B. here. As he points out, politicians on Derry City Council hid behind the idea of 'dual use' technology - and still do. But if a company's MAIN business is the arms trade, then any research they commission is ultimately going to help the arms trade....otherwise they wouldn't invest in it.

by j Mon Apr 28, 2008 19:00

so just to be clear here the raytheon 9 are saying that what is claimed by Bronterre is correct?

by Briz Tue Apr 29, 2008 06:30

I was talking to friends involved in the exorcism of Raytheon's new offices in Brisbane http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87327 Raytheon had just opened its Briz base 5 weeks ago. So I guess it was a baptism as well as an exorcism! A more fitting baptism than the one Hume and Trimble presided over at the opening of Raytheon Derry.

Apparently Raytheon has made a deal with the Labor government that they are exempt from laws dealing with discrimination n employment. Anyone born in a country with a difficult history withe United States is denied employment at Raytheon Brisbane. I think they draw the line after 1812, so if you're British you should be o.!k. Wondering if the same policy operates in Derry?

by anti arms trade Tue Apr 29, 2008 21:46

To J. If you had followed the nine years of campaigning by anti-war activists against Raytheon, then you'd know that those arms companies that do a bit of civilian work on the side - and the politicians that support them - use this dual use argument all the time. So, for years, Raytheon pretended it was doing 'civilian work' in Derry. In 2004 and again in 2006, former workers and Freedom of Information requests proved that these were lies and that even before Raytheon came to Derry, John Hume and others had been lobbying the British government to ensure that Raytheon got military contracts as Raytheon had made it clear that they would only come to Derry if they got these Min of Defence contracts. Even after all this was exposed and photos produced of Raytheon Derry employees at MoD installations in Britain, local politicians were still wittering on about 'dual use'. So, let's be clear, J. Dual use = military use.

by Ciaron - Catholic Worker/Ploughshares Thu May 01, 2008 09:02

One of the reasons I'm basing myself in Ireland presently is to offer support for the Raytheon 9 www.raytheon9.org as they face the legal system for their wonderful act in Derry of nonviolent direct action against the bombing of Lebanon. www.raytheon9.org

So it was good to get along to this meeting to primarily hear from one of the defendants.

There was approx 60 folks at the meeting (willing to stand corrected).....most would have been socialists but also present Palestine solidarity activists, IAWM, AWI, Republicans, Arab community and non aligned people. As an anarchist I was struck by the absence of people from the anarchist scene, considering this was a rare Dublin solidarity meeting with folks looking at serious time who took NVDA against the war machine. Being a Christian I noted the absence of church people. Being a Manchester United fan I was getting text updates on the score throughout the meeting.

The first speakers were Susan and Aussie John who seemed to be NGO folks in town for this huge international meeting involving 100 countries looking at the banning of Cluster Bombs. This is being hosted in Dublin very soon and is very significant. Check ouot websites www.clusterbombs.ie
www.thebanbus.org

John gave a powerful presentation on cluster bombs with visuals. Laos had 380 million cluster bombs dropped on it in 8 years. These bombs keep on killing decades after the wars have ended "hampering development and keeping people impoverished".

In the 06 bombing of Lebanon, Israel dropped 4 milllion cluster bombs in the last 72 hours of its campaign. 25%-40% don't explode on impact and become defacto land mines.
Each CB casing carries 600 bomblets (theriw ere photos of a Laos village displaying how the locals were using the casings in the architecture of their houses.

In Dublin, there will be march against Cluster bombs on Sunday May 27th and a public meeting on Monday May 29th, and a lot more activities around the conference in Dublin. I assume the world media will be assembled in Dublin during this period.

Andy Stroey form Afri then gave a speech in support of the Raytheon 9 and detailing Irish involvement in the arms trade. Afri produces literature around this issue. So check them out Andy also addressed issues around property damage, affiliatiojns and property in relation to the examples of the Pitstop Ploughshares and Raytheon 9 as examples of NVDA and political trials. he also spoke of the increasung mlitarisation of Ireland and potential effects of the Lisbon Treaty.

Eamonn McCann then gave a great and engaging speech on the privatisation of the military, the role of Raytheon, the anti-raytheon campaign in Derry, the war on Lebanon and the Raytheon 9 visit to Lebanon where the witnessed the war damage caused by raytheon and other arms companies.

An excellent booklet written by Eamon has been produced by DAWC. I bought a few copies to post to friends in England, Australia and U.S.

Does anyone know where this booklet is easily available in Dublin.
I dropped into Connoly Books over a week ago and they didn't have any but seemed interest in stocking them.

The Raytheon 9 are due to go to trial May 19 in Belfast. IAWM are running a bus up for the first day of the trial 10 euro return They're on trial for us, We should be on the streets for them!

by E swp - SWP Thu May 01, 2008 20:57

Re Ciarons inquiry as to where he can get McCanns pamphlet.. try the swp.. he is a member after all.Ph 01 8722682.

by Ciaron - Catholic Worker/Ploughshares Fri May 02, 2008 06:47

Dropped into Connoly Books they are keen to stock them.
If you can get some down there.

I'd like to have an easy accessible place to recomend to people to pick one up.
I think it is an excellent pamphlet that people should read before the trial

Harry Browne recently reviewed the booklet.
Maybe someone could post the link to the review here?

by isn'er - irish socialist network Fri May 02, 2008 10:22

Harry Browne's review of the Raytheon 9 pamphlet can be found at: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87408

by General Dtnamics Occupied Tue May 06, 2008 07:27

LINK-May Day raid on General Dynamics Weapons Plant - Vermont, USA

http://www.counterpunch.org/dangl05052008.html