What did connolly die for?

by Connolly column Sat Mar 08, 2008 21:35

Seems an extremely interesting and timely discussion. Unfortunately being from the other end of the country I won't be in a position to attend on the night, but I would dearly love to read any follow-up reports.

by kautskys shadow - none Sat Mar 08, 2008 22:01

He died as the leader of the Irish Republican Army, as thus for the all Ireland Republic proclaimed Easter week, 1916. I know of only one political group that gives its loyalty to that Republic. Guess?

by me Sun Mar 09, 2008 00:43

What would the bould Kieran Allen and the SWP (the erstwhile SWM) know about what Connolly died for or about the struggle up north? During the 'troubles', all Allen and his comrades did was snipe at those engaged in anti-imperialist struggle. How many SWM members, for instance, were jailed for resisting British imperialism? And I'm not saying for engaging in armed struggle (which they opposed) but for any type of street resistance...anything at all. The answer is none. Their sum contribution to the struggle against British imperialism was selling copies of the Socialist Worker. All talk, no action.

by reader Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:33

At about the time the germans were burning Louvain he described them in August 1914 as the ones to back:

"If we had to choose between strengthening the German bully or the Russian autocrat the wise choice would be on the side of the German. For the German people are a highly civilised people, responsive to every progressive influence, and rapidly forging weapons for their own emancipation from native tyranny, whereas the Russian Empire stretches away into the depths of Asia, and relies on an army largely recruited from amongst many millions of barbarians who have not yet felt the first softening influence of civilisation. German thought is abreast of the best in the world; German influences have shaped for good the hopes of the world, but the thought and the hopes of the best in Russia was but the other day drowned in blood by Russia's worst."

Then in 1916 they were his "gallant allies", according to the proclamation he signed. That is what he died for.

by IrishCitizen Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:45

Looking around at the greed and apathy and disinterest in issues, the collapse of the social fabric our society and it's infrastructure, the prevalent blind capitalist ethic, the drunken preoccupation with celebrity, soaps and Bebo, britains capital rule by proxy and the great sellout of our resources, I think I can honestly say that this great man died for nothing

by Barry - 32 csm Sun Mar 09, 2008 16:15

Germany was our countrys ally at the time , supplying Ireland with desperately needed arms . Offering to set foolish Irish prisoners of war free if they could be bothered fighting for their own country against Irelands only enemy , Instead of fighting for that enemy against a country helping Ireland . Promising to send an expeditionary force armed with artillery to assist any Irish rebellion that held out for even a few months and promising to force Britian to accept terms of full Irish national sovereignty in the event of German victory

Britian Russia and France were also rife with naked anti semitism , with Germany acting as a civilised barrier to such primal and tribal hatreds . Those actions were gallant enough in my opinion .

by Concerned of Athy Sun Mar 09, 2008 17:41

Barry, the German war plans issued in September 1914 included hegemony over Europe. It would have been out of the frying-pan into the fire for us.

That's why Pearse and Desmond Fitzgerald discussed Prince Joachim in the GPO. He would be invited to rule Ireland when Germany won the war. The Germans had told Casement that 3 days of fighting (at least) would give Ireland a place at the peace conference when they won.

No worker's republic with Comrade-President JC in command, sad to say. He was ahead of his time, but is not quite relevant to ours either.

by sean Sun Mar 09, 2008 18:41

why do you attempt to tye conolly into your anti bebo agenda. As a great propagadist for his cause JC is well known for publishing great tracts to advocate new idea's and reach the masses. iam sure if he was alive today he would not hesitate in taking advantage of the huge internet social network that is bebo. but iam sure people like you would call him a troll, just as murphy's scibes did. Men like JC come around once in a thousand years, sadly thoose fearfull of change and new way's are always with us.

by Barry - 32 csm Sun Mar 09, 2008 19:02

asides from its own exiled and diaspora our country had no other ally than Germany . Given the fact Germany was actively helping Ireland on the military and diplomatic front then a few words of thanks in its dIrection were not altogether misplaced or unexpected . Im unsure as to whether you believe this assitance should have been turned down or even should Ireland have fought against Britian in the first place . As theres a wide school of people who know better who insist we shouldn t have rebelled against the colonialists I honestly wouldnt be surprised . Another reason not to have rebelled will always come in handy .
Connollys observation was that out of a bad bunch in Europe Germany was the most civilised and cultured , most open to progressive ideas and the country most likely to have a socialist style progressive future . So if someone was going to triumph in the insanity of that war it was better for the world it be them . Although a bit optimistic thats almost what happened and pretty much the way it was prior to the Treaty of Versailles .
But I dont really see your overall point Im afraid .
Pearse and Connolly fought in an attempt to have our nation achieve its sovereignty in the fullest sense , territorial , economic , democratic . Its dignity . Our people , mainly because they permitted themselves to regulalry behave like a race of morons , have failed to either acheive this or defend it . Dignity as a nation occupies no place in our society today . We are still partially occupied , fully dominated , completely sold out to imperialists , capitalists , bloodsuckers , our resources are gone , our national monuments desecrated thanks to corruption and profiteers and we collude in the mass murder and torture of Iraqis and Afghanis . And our people are largely pretty happy about it , because they are largely morons who put up with it . Whether left or right , nationalist or unionist , landlord , developer or tenant .
Connolly and Pearse werent morons , they died in an attempt to give us our dignity . We however collectively probably didnt deserve them . They saw a potential in us that probably wasnt there and never will be unless we wise the feck up andpout our own interests as a nation first . Its in our nations interest to put the interests of its people and its territory and resources over and above the interest of a moneyed few , a foreign occupier , multinational thieves and global imperialism . We'l be the much better for it , more dignified and less moronic to have these principles at the heart of our politics and society .
Thats what Mr Connolly died for .

by Concerned of Athy Sun Mar 09, 2008 23:08

Fair do's, Barry, we didn't deserve him. We are slow to change and the real revolution of attitudes has only started in the south after 1990. Not yet in the north.

The British system had its reforms in the 1945-50 period which we copied from the 1970s. We live in a very different world today, some of which he would have liked and some not.

by IrishCitizen Mon Mar 10, 2008 05:21

As you say, I'm sure James Connolly would have embraced the internet and its wonderful possibilities but I don't think he would have been too impressed with the signal to noise ratio on social networking sites like Bebo as meanwhile the world falls down about our ears. What a waste of great potential. Just like the irish people. James Connolly died for nothing.