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The Galway Races and the Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign : Never the Twain Shall Meet?

category galway | rights, freedoms and repression | news report author Thursday August 02, 2007 15:36author by TD - Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign Report this post to the editors

No €400 a plate, pig-out, in the Fianna Fail Hospitality Tent only bearing witness to beleaguered Palestine

After our successful hijacking of the opening of the Woodie's DIY store in Limerick last week, the Limerick and Galway branches of the IPSC again combined forces, this time for an eight hour stint outside the boarded up Taffe's Sweater Shop in Shop Street yesterday. Fortunately, or unfortunately there was a coachload or two of Israeli tourists in town and a serious tranche of them were trigger happy and wanton with their spleen and denial when they chanced upon our Israeli Blood Diamonds petition/info table.
galwayplate1.jpg

Every shabby mantra, shibboleth and charge was trotted out and flung in the vain hope some of them would stick and cow us or elicit the sympathy of the attendant crown; from charges of "Anti-Semitism" to being "fake" (whatever that meant?), to the prioritisation of Israeli civilian casualties over Palestinian ones, etc, etc.

Ok, so we ran the gauntlet of people, frighteningly, in denial and brain washed, it's par for the course, at least, none of them were as ugly as the four Israelis who some two months back tried to wrestle the Palestinian flag from one us after the one woman amongst them began screaming; "The Palestinians are dogs, they have no rights".

Meanwhile, a few miles up the Road in Ballybrit, Fianna Fail were entertaining the faithful and their builder/property developer friends and possibly honchoes from Cement Roadstone Holdings which is, shamefully, help build the Zionist iron garrotte around the West Bank; the Apartheid Wall.

Related Link: http://www.ipsc.ie

galwayplate9.jpg

Israeli mother and son in incandescent denial as regards the war crimes visited upon hapless Palestine by their country
Israeli mother and son in incandescent denial as regards the war crimes visited upon hapless Palestine by their country

Still at it!
Still at it!

Unrelated to the, out of control Israelis, this pilgrim after tearing up our info leaflet in front of our faces, summonsed the Gardai - God bless 'em they gave him short shrift and one of them was genuinely interested in what we were doing
Unrelated to the, out of control Israelis, this pilgrim after tearing up our info leaflet in front of our faces, summonsed the Gardai - God bless 'em they gave him short shrift and one of them was genuinely interested in what we were doing

author by TD - IPSCpublication date Thu Aug 02, 2007 15:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

more!

galwayplate13.jpg

galwayplate5.jpg

Conor
Conor

Martha
Martha

Anne
Anne

author by TD - IPSCpublication date Thu Aug 02, 2007 15:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

1!

Geraldine
Geraldine

author by Mary Kellypublication date Thu Aug 02, 2007 16:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

fantastic, stall, with giant posters =Galway as always, making wholehearted opposition to Israeli state terrorrism., while the Irish Government unashamedly turns blind eye to US & Israeli weaponry transitting Shannon.

author by crookstownpublication date Thu Aug 02, 2007 17:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Theres a good biography of pro zionist writer Eoghan Harris in Answers.com. It's important to know about Israel's apologists in Ireland.

author by R.E. Silverapublication date Thu Aug 02, 2007 18:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I commend the Palestinian Solidarity movement for sticking to their guns in the face of hecklers. I believe much needs to be done in regards giving the Palestinian people their rights and stopping the unwarranted violence generated by Israel.

Oh, but you sense a "but" coming, don't you?

Well, I will say this. As someone that agrees with the principles of the movement, I must say I abhor the use of Zionist as an insult. I believe that, regardless of the fact that Israel is visiting state terror upon, among others, their own citizens, the State of Israel has a right to exist. I do not think that this desire, nor the idea of Jewish people wanting to live there, are necessarily bad. It is when zealots and fanatics are allowed to apply violence that a problem emerges.

I am certainly not accusing the movement of being anti-semitic. However, being completely confrontational is not the answer and will not bring Israelis to the side of the movement. And after all, that is what is needed for real change to take place from both sides, asides from any international sanctions against Israel. The fact that many stories about the movement seem to point out Israelis only as being opposed to a free Palestinian state doesn't do well regarding my impressions of the campaign.

I do believe you when you say many Israelis wouldn't welcome the demands made by the movement. I have an uncle who lived in Israel for years and he is the most condescending and orthodox person in this matter. But those attitudes won't change unless it stops being an "us or them" situation and we realise that Israel has as much of a right to exist as a state as the other middle eastern countries which surround it, many of which, incidentally, have declarations of intent regarding wiping out all Israelites. Hardly the sort of thing to put anyone at ease.

I just wanted to contribute these two cents. Aside from that, keep up the good work!

author by Johnpublication date Thu Aug 02, 2007 22:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Israelis might have been more receptive to your arguments if you condemned the suicide bombers who've blown hundreds of Israelis to bits in recent years with no-warning bombs on civilian targets like restaurants, buses and cinemas. By the way, are you from the Fatah or Hamas wing of the Palestinian movement?

author by JohnHMpublication date Thu Aug 02, 2007 23:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Darfur ?

Zimbabwe ?

Galway ?

author by Geraldine - Galway Palestine Support Grouppublication date Fri Aug 03, 2007 00:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I support the desperately poor, malnourished, overcrowded, repressed, dispossesed, imprisoned in a tiny area of land, robbed of farms, houses, land, olive trees, vine groves, culturally suffering, war-ravaged, frustrated, victimised, re-located, apartheid-oppressed, brutalised, deprived of civil liberties or civil rights, unfortunate, hungry, very very long-suffering people of Palestine and their children.
It enlarges your understanding if you read Robert Fisk's books , or Susan Nathan's "Inside Israel" or "Intifada" by David Pratt.

Please note I abhor and condemn all killings including suicide bombings.

author by Nodinpublication date Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well done to all concerned.

author by Fred Johnstonpublication date Fri Aug 03, 2007 17:05author email sylfredcar at iolfree dot ieauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

I can recall when some of us took part in a similar, though smaller, demo in Galway's Shop Street. A group of Israeli tourists harrassed and shouted at us, in a trenchant and aggressive manner, then began taking photographs and filming us - whatever that was about, clearly it was intended to intimidate. It didn't work, of course. We were not at a checkpoint in Gaza. It was ugly behaviour. Loud voices, no attempt whatever at rational debate, finger-pointing, bullying. It seemed to me that what provoked them most was the notion that Irish people whould have knowledge of or be concerned with the plight of the Palestinians. But we've made it up to them - the Irish defence forces are now buying 'drone' aircraft from the Israelis. Perhaps at the next demo one of them will hover menacingly over Galway's Shop Street. Well done, folks.

author by Frank Adam - private citizenpublication date Fri Aug 03, 2007 19:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

First in 1967 there was no Palestine on the map; only the West Bank of Jordan - and Gaza "under Egyptian occupation." Consider that if Jordan had taken the Israeli advice via the US to stay out of the spat with Egypt; then there would never have been all the fuss about Palestine since.

Nodin and others are badly under - read about several aspects starting with the problem in this discussion of the refusal to recognise that "borders" is generic and fluffy round the edges, while "frontiers" like "marriage" is a word with legal edges & baggage.

The frontiers of Israel and Egypt, and Israel and Jordan were set by the British and re-accepted by the peace treaties between those countries. There is a recognised 1923 Franco-British frontier between the two governments in respect of Israel for one party, and Lebanon and Syria for the others.

A vast amount of the troubles of the area hang from the refusal of the Syrian government to accept the 1923 frontier and to let Lebanon sign a peace accepting its 1923 frontier with Israel. So much for the fallacy that the war is caused by Israel being out of its international frontiers.

Syria is a vicious dictatorial imperialist which has never hidden that it wants to annex: Jordan, Palestine, Lebanon and Israel. If you really want peace in the Levant throw some criticism at Syria. Egypt and Jordan have recognised that their attempt to grab chunks of Palestine in 1948 brought: nothing, trouble, expense - and they are well out of it.

The border between Israel and the Gaza Strip and ex - West Bank of Jordan (Why was she there anyway?) are not frontiers and therefore not actually legalities for they are only the cease fire accident of the battlefields lines of the 1949 armistice, and the 1967 UN 242 allows for their amendment. Again Israeli withdrawal to the 1949 border in respect of Gaza has not reinforced peace, which again proves the dispute is not about borders, but about mutual recognitions of self-determinations - a matter that the PLO and Hamas Covenants are very short on.

Meanwhile, just because a lot of people amuse themselves - and even earn their bread - by impersonating Marilyn Monroe or Elvis Presley, does not mean that those impersonators are their subjects. Similarly apartheid was an internal South African problem while the Palestine problem stems from two nations seeking to be themselves externally and avoid the other. Quite a lot of bedouin and other Arabs have infiltrated Israeli borders and settled especially in Galilee and the Negev, in villages that are illegal because created without planning permission. They then insolently take your subscribers for a sob story that they are not provided for - well pay taxes and obey regulations first! All of them!

Finally before calling Israel, or admiring Palestine Arabs as plaster saints - or even Garibaldi's Redshirts - do look at how the Arab World treats its Christians eg the Catholics in Gaza last month, because that is how they intend to treat you; as soon as they feel strong enough to do so. They did so in Spain and the Balkans. North Africa was so imperialised and acculturated it has never returned to a mutual Mediterranean commonality. Like all religious extremists from the Inquisition to Hitler, jihadis have no humour. Like the Bourbons, they learn nothing, and forget nothing.

author by Nodinpublication date Fri Aug 03, 2007 20:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Having read Lord Caradons commentary on what 242 was supposed to entail, I'm confident in saying that it did not imply in some hidden semi-biblical code 'Go forth ye and plant your settlers, and treat of the natives as though they were strangers in their own land'.........Nor did it in anyway give permission for arbitrary annexation.

The guiding principle was "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war", as far as I recall. Vast amounts have been written to fluff, bury and distract from this, but at the end of the day, were it not for the US putting its considerable weight and volume behind Israel, the idea that Israels conduct had some merit or grounds would be treated with the same derision many of the proclamations of Mugabe are greeted with.

author by Nodinpublication date Fri Aug 03, 2007 21:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors


By the way Frank, you lose all credibility with your last two paragraphs there. There were Bedouin in the Negev before there was an Israel. Seeing as a large number of persons seek to infiltrate Israel to wreak havoc and are stopped or killed in the process, I find it amusing that suddenly a group can pop up and start claiming benefits. The stereotype of the "lazy Arab" is rather as objectionable as that of the "blood crazed arab" you then try to claim is coming for us. I suggest a return to scare-mongering class, as the basics seem to have escaped you.

author by david - jato-NYCpublication date Sat Aug 04, 2007 13:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

IPSC: Can you please post the text of your "Blood Diamond" petition/flyer? Thanks in advance.

author by TD - IPSCpublication date Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:01author address author phone 086 3366525Report this post to the editors

Text of Dette's poster : On Saturday, Aug 11th at 3PM, a Socialist Forum will be held in the Western Bar Meeting Room, Prospect Hill, Galway. Dr Abdullah, from Lebanon will deliver his analysis of the situation in Lebanon and why Socialists should stand unambiguously on the side of those fighting imperialism and oppression.

The text of the Israeli Blood Diamond info leaflet will be posted shortly

Dette from the SWP at  the IPSC stall outside Lynch's castle, yesterday.
Dette from the SWP at the IPSC stall outside Lynch's castle, yesterday.

author by Jacqueline Fallonpublication date Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well done to the IPSC in Galway and all who assisted them in highlighting the plight of the Palestinian people. It is heartening to see so many give of their time to expose the continued imprisonment of the impoverished Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and the other criminal acts in the West Bank perpetrated by the Israeli Government.

I find it astounding that Israeli tourists who newly arrive in this country abuse people here campaigning for human rights. Over a year ago, I was distributing leaflets highlighting a rally in aid of the Palestinians that was to take place, and I was confronted by Israeli tourists who proceeded to spit in my face and told me I should be shot - who do they think they are coming over to this country and treating us like that! What sort of people behave like that - it speaks volumes about them - and it's even more amazing that after all the abuse they hurl at you, they expect you to then listen to them and bow to their point of view?

Shame on those Israeli people who support their Government's human rights abuses (being aware also that there is a vocal minority of Israelis in Ireland and in Israel who do not!)!

author by Feyadeenpublication date Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Finally before calling Israel, or admiring Palestine Arabs as plaster saints - or even Garibaldi's Redshirts - do look at how the Arab World treats its Christians eg the Catholics in Gaza last month, because that is how they intend to treat you; as soon as they feel strong enough to do so. They did so in Spain and the Balkans. North Africa was so imperialised and acculturated it has never returned to a mutual Mediterranean commonality. Like all religious extremists from the Inquisition to Hitler, jihadis have no humour. Like the Bourbons, they learn nothing, and forget nothing. "

Honestly Frank, do you really take us all for fools? Do you think we know nothing about history? It's common knowledge that the Moors were very tolerant of both Christians and Jews while they ruled Spain. They were given the right to practice their faith and not persecuted by the state. When the Christian armies drove them out, they deported every single Jew who refused to convert to Christianity, and set up the Inquisition that you mention to keep an eye on the ones who did convert and persecute them for centuries. The Spanish Jews fled to Salonika, part of the Ottoman Empire, where they were allowed to settle and once more treated much better than anywhere in Christian Europe. Their community was eventually disrupted by the arrival of German armies in 1941 and most of them died in the concentration camps.

And if you're going to talk about "imperialism" in the context of North Africa, you might recall the brutal French occupation and counter-insurgency war that claimed a million lives - a war that was fully supported by the young Israeli state, despite the friendly attitude of the Algerian nationalists to their country's Jewish community.

author by TD - IPSCpublication date Mon Aug 06, 2007 15:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Jacqueline, Jewish-American academic and activist, Joel Kovel, offers an insight, in his recently published book; Overcoming Zionism, on this; "Those ridden by Zionist logic are bound to project the accusation of antisemitism onto whoever troubles their bad conscience"

David, sorry for the delay in posting the requested text of our Israeli Blood Diamonds flyer :

ISRAELI BLOOD DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER …ON YOUR CONSCIENCE

The Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign (IPSC), in co-operation with solidarity groups worldwide has initiated a campaign to raise awareness about the extent of Israeli involvement in the diamond business.

The IPSC believe that as a result of Israel's domination of the diamond business, diamonds crafted in Israel are on sale in all Irish jewellery shops and Irish consumers are unwittingly supporting the Israeli economy and Israel's illegal occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people.

The recent release of the film Blood Diamond has draw a lot of attention to the issue of conflict or blood diamonds. Jewellers representatives have bombarded the media in an effort to assure the public that the enforcement of the UN based Kimberly Process controls have eliminated the trade in blood diamonds. What these spin-doctors fail to mention however is the fact that the Kimberly process only applies to unpolished or rough diamonds and completely ignores the trade in, the much more lucrative, polished diamonds from conflict zones. This has proven very convenient for Israel in particular and for jewellers as they now use their compliance with the Kimberly process as a smoke screen to sell diamonds crafted in Israel, the world's longest running and apparently most intractable conflict zone, to unsuspecting consumers.

The IPSC calls on the Irish public to reject diamonds crafted in Israel and to insist on the right to know where each diamond was crafted and the right to choose Israel-free diamonds, such as laser inscribed diamonds from countries that respect human rights.

• In 2005 Israel gemstone exports were valued at $16 billion
•The Israeli Ministry of Defence budget in 2007 is $12 billion
•In 2007 the value of gemstone exports from Israeli is estimated to reach $18–20 billion

ISRAELI DIAMONDS FUND WAR CRIMES - NO TANKS !

author by MichaelY - iawm/ipsc - per cappublication date Mon Aug 06, 2007 15:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well done Galway IPSC - hello TD hi Dette

For an interesting and 'innocent' read of how the Israeli State uses writers and literature to distract attention from the crimes the State is committing pls go to:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/890305.html

The best case for a cultural boycott I have come across for a long time. Btw, the IPSC boycott/picket of Israeli produce in supermarkets is continuing. For further info contact the IPSC through

http://www.ipsc.ie

PS - TD, if you have 5 free mins, have a chat with Dette about the proposed Conference in October.....

author by Frank Adam - private citizenpublication date Thu Aug 09, 2007 23:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just because there were bedouin in what is now Israel before Israel was created; does not mean that more have not infiltrated the area since. One of the problems of the keffiya and demo lot is they pursue a Rousseauvian Aracadia of peasant farmers in cash only business, and no complex tax and benefit government that ceased a lifetime ago as the local populations doubled and then doubled again. De Valera's similar 18th century view of Ireland also dissolved about that time.

Further 'Fedayeen' could read some history because Moorish Spain was not one seven century stretch of learned toleration by any means. Just for starters about the second half of the twelfth century the Almoravid wave made life difficult for non Moslems and lax Moslems. That was when the Maimonides family left and he eventually made it to court physician to Saladin.

As Fedayeen could only mount a skirmish from general history, he accepts the rest of the detailed argument.

author by Memory Manpublication date Fri Aug 10, 2007 02:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

One should not forget the ease with which the Israeli government constantly utilise their long-thought out plan to use art and arts' events to push the message that they are really doing nothing nasty to the Palestinians and are actually a civilised and oppressed
nation 'defending ' itself. Aosdána, however reluctantly, did pass a motion tabled by playwright Margaretta D'Arcy earlier this year requiring Irish artists to think again on the ethical implications of their attended Israeli-sponsored cultural events. There exists now no excuse for Irish artists to be fooled into believing that Israeli 'cultural' visits and events are anything other than political exercises in PR. The Irish Writers' Union remains dumb-struck at the thought of politcal action of any kind, especially against Israel. They should be ashamed of themselves.

author by Sean Healypublication date Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Memory Man,
I suppose you are unaware of the Israeli Embassy's sponsorship of "9 Star Hotel" at a film festival in Donegal earlier this year. If you think that film is about hiding the hardships of the Palestinians, well, you've set an impossible standard.

author by Labhras - Selfpublication date Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Great stuff guys. Wish I could have seen the Garda giving the "Move on " to tose two who tore up the leaflet. They should know this is a democracy and protest is allowed.

author by Feyadeenpublication date Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"As Fedayeen could only mount a skirmish from general history, he accepts the rest of the detailed argument."

No Frank, I do no such thing. The rest of your argument is a pack of lies - I dealt with a few of the lies, others posters have dealt with others. I have no need to repeat the solid arguments they have come out with in response to your nonsense.

author by Memory Manpublication date Fri Aug 10, 2007 14:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sean, I did not see the film you refer to and you don't give the least info on what it was about, so I can't comment on whether it was propaganda or not. I find it hard to believe that the Israelis would sponsor a film showing the plight of the Palestinians, so I'd be grateful for further elucidation. But you are doubtless aware that the Israeli government have drawn up a special policy specifically to use art and artists as a means of pushing a 'softer' line on Israel.

author by Frank Adam - private citizenpublication date Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Unfortunately for those in the backwaters of prosperity who a need Dulcinea del Tobosa to play with their imaginations, there are certain facts in the witnesses' record that have to be faced. UN 181 in 1947 did accord the Arab community in Palestine a fair share in the circumstances - fair in that it accorded them a state; self determination; and an area greater than they now accept - an area without the total desert parts of the Negev that are half of Israel.

However it was the Arab parties who refused to have anything to do with UN 181; threatened to fight it, which they did bloodily with all their contradictory fundamentalist beliefs about mutilating enemy corpses. The then UN Secretary General Trygvie Lie (pron: Lee), said the Arab behaviour in Palestine was the first act of aggression since 1945. The Arabs are not innocents in nor since1948 and have to take the consequences of their actions, which by and large they have been too politically immature or cynical to do.

As there is one Ireland RFU team, you understand the advantage rule in refereeing: if the game goes against the fouler because of, or in immmediate consequence of the foul, play on and do not stop the game. To the credit of most of the Arab refugees of 1948 and their families they remade their lives elsewhere. Those still in troubles are the victims or cast offs of their Arab leadership or what pretends to it.

Everybody else 's refugees have been resettled and rehabilitated by UNHCR so UNWRA is the molly coddling source of the problem and an example of exceptional privileged treatment for Palestine as one of the three special UN bodies wasting UN subscriptions on a solveable pseudo problem keptup as an Arab smokescreen for aggresssion.

The proof is in the brief to provide for all who in 1947 had been at least two years in Palestine ie inclusive of immigrants of whom 50 000 legal migrant Arabs: see the records; and intro chapter of Leila Khaled's memoirs. Anybody else hanging about DP camps after a decade would have been told, "That's it. Get a life and a job and stop being a welfare sponger." European DP's had cetainly disappeared from the news before 1960.

Actually the Saudis and other Sunni powers are now so terrified by Iran's Shi'ite imperialism that they are, again, screening a peace plan to the US to shelve Palestine to sell their last two decades of cheap petroleum. This will only work if it recognises Israeli self-determination by dropping The Return to 1947 of the Arab refugee families.

Saudi could and can pay out monetary compensation for them which is cheap in their defence purchases. What is definite is there is no return to the Arcadian non- economic peasant idyll, even if those with green fingers can cultivate a pergola of vines over the front veranda. In the thirties, already 84% of Palestine Arabs were townees, now it is over 95%. Besides there is ten times the population already in the area with higher expectations of water use and life.

Those who want to create peace and a Palestine state should lean on Syria to sign off on the 1923 Franco British frontier and stop harbouring and supplying the extremists who are against even minor swaps along the Green Line of the 1949 Armistice.

When Palestine and petroleum are both over, it will be plain as a pikestaff that the Arab parties - especially the Philistines - have gained nothing they could not have had by treaty in 1950, let alone by accepting UN 181 in 1947.

author by Michael Martinpublication date Sun Aug 12, 2007 13:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

.......the three captive soldiers, Gilad Shalit, Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser! Shalit is being held by Palestinians for well over one year now. But the IPSC fails to mention this crime against humanity on their website or in the leaflets they are handing out in Galway and elsewhere!

Related Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit
author by Feyadeenpublication date Mon Aug 13, 2007 06:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"the three captive soldiers, Gilad Shalit, Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser! Shalit is being held by Palestinians for well over one year now. But the IPSC fails to mention this crime against humanity on their website or in the leaflets they are handing out in Galway and elsewhere! "

Why on earth do you think the IPSC should protest because three Israeli soldiers were captured while on active duty and are being held as prisoners of war? How is this a crime against humanity?

author by JohnHMpublication date Tue Aug 14, 2007 21:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If they --the Israeli Soldires kidnapped inside Israel by Hamas or Hizbollah are prisoners of war their whereabouts should be made known

The whereabouts of all the Arabs prisoners kept by Israel are well known

author by Noapublication date Mon Aug 20, 2007 08:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It's common knowledge that the Moors were very tolerant of both Christians and Jews while they ruled Spain.
Yet, it is not true. It IS true there was a golden age for Jews under the Moors in Spain, between 9th and 12th century, but this "golden age" still included massacres of Jews by Muslims (the 1066 massacre in Granda, for one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre).
Its also included, as everywhere else under Muslim goverment at that time, the Jews and Christians were second-rate citizens, forced to pay special taxes, and never equal. True, it was better than some places in Christian Europe, but yet, it is nothing to brag at.

The ones to end this "golden age", by the way, weren't the Christians.
It was the Moors themselves.
In the mid 11th century the Almohades invaded from North Africa, and forced a Jewish convertion to Islam. Many Jews, including Maymonides family, by the way, fled Spain.

After there were still many Jews in Spain, till 1492, but it was not so shiny, nor golden any more.

author by Noapublication date Mon Aug 20, 2007 08:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Feyadeen,
Assume Austria would kiddnapped Italian soldiers, from within Italia's borders, holding them for a year, REFUSING to give any information about their health, if they are alive at all, refusing to let them contact their families or getting packages through the Red Cross, wouldn't that be a war crime? Or at least, a fat violation of the Geneva convention?
Now, Assume it's not even the Austrian Army who did it. It's a big and popular political pary, member of the Austrian parlament, who happens to have an army of it's own and controll half the country.

author by sylvia - UK - durham/palestine educational trpublication date Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

John M proudly trumpets that whilst the whereabouts of the 3 captured Israeli soldiers is not known,
that of Israeli prisoners is known. I would contend that knowing where your child is imprisoned is
little consolation to the parents of the approx. 300 UNDER 16's held in Israeli Jails.

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