New US troop SURGE through Shannon airport

by John Boy Walton Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:12

Do you want America to fight a war with Ireland too?
America obviously can't be stopped.
We are powerless to do anything.

by MichaelY - iawm Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:28

Good job Ed. Solidarity to all of you in the Clare/Limerick region continuing the fight. Good article. It's been circulated to our mailing list.

Leaving aside inane comments like those by 'Fearg' above (who has just 'advised' the Rossport activists, in another thread, to carry "concealed knives" and stab some of the cops) - do they really think that we're that stupid? - indications from around the country is that the anti-war message is beginning to filter through the election debate. There are a few media-savvy events being scheduled for May and we're including in our planning Shannon - as a number of Shannon based activists have requested. We'll let you know soon.

As for the last message that the Empire is all-powerful and cannot be defeated......tell that to the Vietnam generation, tell that to those who died in Africa, tell that to the tens of thousands of Americans crippled and maimed in the various wars....tell that to the Israelis and the IDF......tell that to Rumsfeld and now Wolfowi.....they can, they have been and will be again.

Fraternally

by Coilín Mon Apr 16, 2007 18:24

Events in Iraq demonstrate the futility of the greatest military power in world history in the face of concerted popular resistance. Bush ordered a surge and that's exactly what he got: a surge in violence, and a surge in resistance, in Baghdad and the rest of Iraq.

Not forgetting from the deaths of innocent Iraqis, US troops have gone on dying in steady numbers over recent months:
http://icasualties.org/oif/US_chart.aspx

The people of Ireland are not powerless in the face of America's futile, self-destructive violence. We can do much - and I mean peaceful protest - to encourage the United States to concede defeat, to bring the troops home safely to their families, and to pay reparations to all those who have suffered loss as a result of the invasion of Iraq.

Just as Iraq was made liable to pay reparations to anybody who suffered as a result of the invasion of Kuwait, we can and ought to push for reparations to be paid to the people of Iraq, who have lost their homes, jobs and family members as a result of the US-led invasion of their country.

Best,
Coilín.

by Fred Johnston Tue Apr 17, 2007 03:11 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

The sad fact seems to be that, yes, a lot of momentum has gone out of the movement against the dreadful abuse at Shannon of Irish neutrality and indeed sovereignty. No one seems bothered by the fact that the US now has a PERMANENT military presence there, as reported publicly in the press, of a US officer acting as liaison. So things have got much worse in the past few years. It is disgraceful. Perhaps Aosdána's next move will be to vote on this issue.

by Martin Morrison Tue Apr 17, 2007 15:09

I see where US Military has been asked today by the UN to provide protection for the civil population of Darfur who are being slaughtered on a daily basis. I am sure these poor people wont react in the same way as you idiots to US forces being in their Country.

I bet you wont have anything nice to say about this bit of news only your constant anti american rubbish.

You people are unreal

by Johnny B Tue Apr 17, 2007 21:04 Rochester, New York

Complain all you want about Imperialist America. This war will last decades wether the Ostriches in the American government have their way or not. Islamist hatred for the West has been growing for decades. Liberals seem to feel that leaving the Middle East will end violence but that is wrong. It will grow and many many more innocents will be murdered and Iraq will become the New Afghanistan except multiplied times 10,000. I suppose if those people who are protesting today were around in the late 1930's they would have been equally upset if we had challenged Hitler early on.
Unfortunately, islamist interpretation of the Koran dictates that all non believers be converted or killed. Have you read the Koran lately? I have.
Cheers

by Jason in the USA Tue Apr 17, 2007 22:22

The killing of the infedels is NOT limited to Americans, British, German and other UN troops. Not limited to the thousands that were murdered on September 11, 2001.

What will you protesters think when the Muslims start attacking dear old Ireland? Wouldn't you want some help to rid your country of the radical factions? Innocents die every day around the world and thats a sad fact. The posts above make it sound like the US is sending troops to Iraq to shoot innocent women and children. Far from it. US troops are FREELY giving their lives to TRY and help the Iraqi people break free of the radical factions and become a free standing society that has all the rights and freedoms just like Ireland and the US currently enjoy. I believe that most all of the civilian deaths in Iraq are due to the actions of radical Muslim groups and NOT the US military. Now go read the Koran and understand that Ireland is on the Muslim hit list.

by Sarah Tue Apr 17, 2007 23:13

Opposing US Military use of Shannon airport can be construed as anti american OR it can be construed as a friendly gesture towards the majority of AMERICANS who oppose this war.
It can be opposed on the grounds of compromising Irish Neutrality,of respecting international agreements regarding the use of aggressive military force,of opposing the use of violence to achieve peace,of the fact the the Alliance of the willing clearly has no strategy to bring about peace or democracy,of the fact that the invaders of Iraq refuse to obey the Geneva convention, and in anwser to the last xenophobic anti islamic comment -if your bleak view of the world is true the use of Shannon airport would increase the likliehood of retaliation against Ireland.
Which of us is anti american?

by Peter Scott Tue Apr 17, 2007 23:53

You just answered the question you asked, you Sarah are the Anti American as is most people on this website, you oppose everything that you think will keep you in the limelight be it the war in Iraq or Anti Israel or anything Western. By the way I dont support the war but right now all the killing in Iraq is being carried out by suicide bombers who dont care who they kill as long as its human beings they are not being killed by US forces.

You are a minority group who hate the US and everything it stands for

by Goblin Wed Apr 18, 2007 00:04

Correction. The Bush administration is a minority who hates the US and all it stands for. Most especially the bill of rights and the constitution of the United States, that 'quaint' document scribed by the Founding Fathers and pissed on by Bush and his cronies.

I'm anti Bush regime so quit your flag waving and less of the chest-thumping vitriol because that most definately does not translate into Anti-American.

There is no them and us. HUMAN BEINGS one and all. All entitled to integrity and a meaningful and full life by whatever THEIR interpretation of that is, not yours.

by GIjoe Wed Apr 18, 2007 01:06

Well now there are a few inherent flaws in this logic. I know for a fact that the Irish government is receiving payment of a great deal for the use of the facilities in Shannon. If the government is not going to be too worried about the movement of US troops in and out of your country then WHY ARE YOU. The people of Iraq are in dire need of the world's support tin the fight for their land. There is no reason why we should stand by and watch these people get slaughtered by the terror seeking people in there country. Although this war is all about the oil we also know that the war is about democratic. A democratic government is a government that is ruled by the people for the people. A democracy is what the US government is establishing there in Iraq. If you would like just go ahead and turn to the U.S. and attack us in "your" country after you have invited us there. I bet that you would like to see a USS COLE tragedy there in Shannon but you see how we handled it there in Yemen we did not just turn and run we attacked back. We will sent the Marines in to kick your but the army to aid the blood thirsty marines the air force to attack from the sky and the Navy to attack from the sky and sea. So if you really want to tempt that you could say that you neutrality is really in vane. If you were neutral then you would do for both sides> Oh yeah there is no such thing as a truly neutral country. So just go ahead and face the facts that your country wants us there then we should be allowed to be there.

by Goblin Wed Apr 18, 2007 08:50

If your in the States and considering the time difference, do you not think it was a bit early to be hitting the Jack Daniels? Or do you have another reason for your incoherent farrago?

Bush went in for the Oil and to 'finish daddies job'. In doing so he has turned Iraq into the mess is it now. The US should pull out and pay massive renumerations to the Iraqi people.

Bush should crawl on his hands and knees to beg forgiveness from the families of each and every Iraqi he has killed. If your a pea-brained repug 'with or against us' 'stay the course' 'merican freedoms lover who wants to fight 'merican freeedoms haters', if you've swallowed the Bush Regimes lies and blindly 'support the troops' because some drunken failure from Texas told you to. Then you should start crawling too.

by Edward Horgan - Peace and Neutrality Alliance Wed Apr 18, 2007 17:33

Just for the record, I do support genuine UN intervention in the Darfur region of the Sudan. Genocide has already been committed here, and the UN should have intervened several years ago. However, it is essential that the peacekeeping troops selected should come from appropriate countries. The experience of US intervention in Somalia in 1992 and 93 should raise alarm bells about US troops intervening in Darfur. The US bombed a chemical factory in the Sudanese capital some years back and are unlikely to be acceptable as peacekeepers. Also, the reasons for US intervention in Sudan may be similar to its Iraqi intervention, that is oil, and the fear that China will gain economic advantage in the Sudan over the US.
Great care needs to be taken with the choice of peacekeepers in Sudan if further Somalia type disasters are to be avoided. However, effective UN peacekeeping is urgently needed in Darfur.

It must also be remembered that the US intervention in Iraq contravened several articles of the UN Charter and was a gross breach of international law. The continued presence of US forces is fueling the violence in Iraq. A recent international opinion poll of Iraqi people showed that over 80% of Iraqi people believe that US forces in Iraq are counterproductive and want their immediate withdrawal.
The vast majority of Irish people respect the people of the United States, but also in a recent Irish Times poll, over 67% of Irish people do not approve of US military use of Shannon airport.

by AmericanGirl Wed Apr 18, 2007 21:31

First of all, I would like to say that if your comments were well written, correct in grammar in spelling, then I might be inclined to think of you as an intelligent, well-meaning, yet terribly misguided and ignorant individual. Unfortunately for your sake, your grammar and spelling mistakes are atrocious as is your reasoning.

I am sorry that you feel Pres. Bush and the citizens of the United States should pay reparations to Iraqi citizens (after all, the war is a NATIONAL movement, not an individual one, and the citizens of the US would ultimately be the ones paying). Pres. G.B. Bush might be taking up a fight that his father let go, but at the time and place in which our country has found itself since 2001, how responsible would it be for the president to overlook terrorism? Our government has the ability, nay, the responsibility, to defend our country through preventative tactics. We have already had a direct attack on our country by one radical group--not making ourselves a world presence would be ludacris.

If anyone should be crawling on their hands and knees asking for forgiveness, it should be your English teacher.

by Seán Ryan Wed Apr 18, 2007 22:11

For someone who needs to score points by criticising grammar, you describe the American invasion of Iraq in very vague terms: We found ourselves there. "Found?"

Did you get lost?

You describe war as a national movement. This is quite lacking in meaning. The fact that you imply that 9/11 is something to do with Iraq is both dishonest and desperate. No Iraqi's took part in 9/11. The only decent comparison that could be made between 9/11 and Iraq is that both were unprovoked and unlawful.

By the way, this is Ireland. So when you refer to "Pres." Bush, you are not using the correct format. You should have used the word, "president" with the word "our" before it and a comma after it. After all, he's yours not ours.

You suggest that the uncalled for and unjust response to 9/11 was an attempt to establish a 'world presence." What planet were you on before the attack?

Allow me to point out to you American Girl, that terrorism is on the increase on a global scale because of 'Pres.' Bush and his genocidal actions, not in decline because of his genocidal actions. You speak as if you are better than those you presume to criticise, but you limit your criticism to childish attacks about grammar and the like, the rest of your meaningless rhetoric, you spend making whimsical excuses and sound like the wife of a violent drunk, making sad excuses, that only offer a model of enablement.

Methinks you ought to take your head out of infant education and set your sights somewhat higher, with regard to your outlook as to what constitutes an education.

by Catlady Wed Apr 18, 2007 23:01

"If the government is not going to be too worried about the movement of US troops in and out of your country then WHY ARE YOU."

Perhaps for reasons similar to those of Irish citizens are worried about other issues our government see fit to ignore - homelessness, animal welfare, healthcare, the elderly, the environment etc. etc.etc. -because we have brains which have not been completely washed out and replaced with all their spin and propoganda... Just a thought...

by GI JOE Wed Apr 18, 2007 23:28

To Goblin:

I wrote that it was for the Oil that Bush went into Iraq. But if you would slow the truck and think before you speak, which makes you look like an ass. Knowing the facts will help your argument much more than just an attack on another person. What you have called a “mess” is actually progress. We have been able to set up a government that has actually been able to hold an election which as not happened since Saddam took over the country. If you had been in country and seen the war at the front like a real man you would have seen a side the true side of the war. The Media has twisted the facts so much that watching it would make you believe that going into any part of the Middle East is dangerous. So until you have found yourself in the middle of a firefight with radical extremists fighting for a piece of dirt that they stole from another human then we’ll listen to ya. Why should we pay retribution to the Iraqi people we are not there fighting them we are fighting with them against the barbarians that stole there lands. So if the French came in and stole your land should whomever comes to your aid pay you retributions (I bet you would have no problem asking for the US Marines to help you then. So why must you so adamantly fight us trying to help a third world country. Do you realize that you government actually asked this carrier to fly in and out of Shannon.
Bush has not killed anyone in this has had to order the retaliation of the American people against the terrorists in this world. Apparently you have not a clue as to what this is all about. It’s called freedom. Freedom is what every American that has given his/her life has sacrificed it all for. These people know that and you apparently do not.
Goblin you are an open book anyone who has read anything that you have written has seen that you are. The fact of the matter is that you just outright hate anything that is not about you being in the lime light. I bet that if Pres. Bush was to say that he is giving the Irish government 10million Euro to be dispersed to the people of that land you would actually like him why he has given you something. So quit being so ignorant and look at all the facts and take a step back to the shadows and you’ll see that there is a big picture to this abstract piece of work.
Thank you to all those who have gone and served and especially to those who have given all for there country.

by GI JOE Wed Apr 18, 2007 23:54

TO: Sean Ryan

Apparently you have no concept of the use of a verb. To find your self is to discover that you been put into a bad place. This bad place was when we lost those 5 thousand people in the attacks on the World Trade Centers, the pentagon, and the flight that was crashed in Pennsylvania.
By the way not all of the people here are from Ireland. I know that I AM NOT! And I would bet that “American Girl” is not either. So using the phrase “Our President,” makes no since. This is America here bubs. So he is ours and we like the way he works.
The attacks on the WTC were merely an eye opener. It was a good kick in the pants like Pearl Harbor. The fact that no Iraqis took part in the 9/11 attacks is why we are not fighting against the Iraqis. This is for the Iraqis not against them. We are there building not destroying. And by the way most of the deaths of this long war have been from suicide bombings not the American soldier so if you would like to go and see for yourself what these guys are fighting for go ahead and follow suit like you forefathers did and come to the greatest nation in the World. The good old USA. Were freedom is not free but we sacrifice what we have to in order to keep that freedom. So before you go off the handle and chew on someone about there way of writing you might want to think about there perspective.
And you also know that “METHINKS” is stupid and makes you sound like you don’t know how to address someone like an adult but a child with childish slang. I don’t know what your back ground is here but this is not about slamming each other it’s about making conversation about each other’s opinions. So if you are offended by my way of thinking, I don’t really give a hoot about it. And also by the looks of your name you aren’t fully Irish are you? I know that I have an Irish decent and thank them for the fight that I have within me. So look for the good in this because we are not going to turncoat and run from this war. And put all the lives that have been lost in vane.

by Seán Ryan Thu Apr 19, 2007 00:15

I think Mr. GI JOE, that it is you, who suffers from an understanding of concepts.

When one finds something or someone, it means that this something or someone was lost, preceding their being found. Fear has nothing to do with the concept or its definition. The fear you speak of is the fear you've been indoctrinated with. Okay that's the end of the English lesson, you are on your own afer this.

You speak in a very gung ho fashion and try to combine this with spin about humanitarian issues. When Americans build things in the US, do they use rifles, jets, tanks, missiles, grenades, depleted uranium, phosphorous, and other similar tools.

When drive by's, gang warfare and other American customs erupt in some American ghetto, do the authorities, send in the troops, to bomb the shit out of the inhabitants, and bring to them freedom?

Did you know that there are many American communities, so poor and delapidated, that they could and have applied for aid as they quality in terms of third world countries?

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a functional society yourselves, before you'd presume to impose your ignorance and inhumanity on another culture that is much older and experienced than your own?

I'm not offended by your way of thinking, far from it. I'm ofended by you inability to think and to do so for yourself. As for my name not sounding Irish. This puts the validity of your self-important expertise into focus. And for what it's worth, "methinks" is not slang, go look it up if you know how.

You speak lots of shite about freedom. Would you mind defining what you mean about freedom?

Then again why not go watch WWF and have a Coke? Your country needs you.

by Goblin Thu Apr 19, 2007 01:18

"ludacris"

Stones? Glass houses?

I rest my case

by Goblin Thu Apr 19, 2007 01:24

I went to see Rich Hall tonight. I suggest you do the same. It might enlighten you a little as to what the majority of Americans actually think of the chimp and his 'Yeeeeehah' rhetoric.

I fear is it only this kind of base analysis that will permeate such a thick skin.

As for the rest of your nonsense it doesnt even deserve comment.

by Fred Johnston Thu Apr 19, 2007 02:35 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

The culture of violence which successive governments have bred in the US, and which they have visited upon so many other countries in the world, needs no further proof of its existence than the recent insanity in a school in Virginia. What can one say about a country where the NRA actually fund candidates to run in elections? Invading Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism, save that which the US carried out. It was about oil and power. The US got neither. The people of the US need to look deep into their psyche, into what mutters around in there to make so many of them so afraid, insecure, and gun-happy: and prey to the kind of Old Testament fundamentalist madman that is George W. Bush. I think one of the most endearing qualities of most Americans is, ironically, their naivety.

by flygirls Thu Apr 19, 2007 16:44

OMNI is the correct way unstead of OMI! so if you are going to complain about a company get the name RIGHT!!
The flight crews that are comming thru the snn airport are extremely nice. So Ireland open your mind and ears, let them come thru or shut it!! you don't have a choice.
Welcome to Omni Air intl' and Welcome to Ireland
thanks

by none Thu Apr 19, 2007 16:48

american girl

by Seán Ryan Thu Apr 19, 2007 17:00

Typos happen to everyone. Check out your own "unstead."

Besides, if you check out the caption with the picture provided, you'll note the correct spelling. Why dwell on the little things when so many large issues are mentioned?

As for having a choice. Your take on this is quite silly. There's always choice. Remember that all progress in politics comes from dissent. To argue otherwise would be to argue that we live in a perfect world.

By the by, Amnesty International (also nice people) aren't too impressed with OMNI either. Apparently OMNI likes to ship arms on behalf of the American Genocidal Dictatorship. http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engact300082006

I'm sure this will not phase our government (who are only nice to their US masters). But it will not deter those of us who see that there are choices and decisions to be made.

by Fergus Thu Apr 19, 2007 17:02

When did Italian or German bomber pilots attack Pearl Harbour and the usa as well?

Oh, thats right they didnt, yet mr. roosevelt knew who a bigger threat to his country was

since Timothy Mcviegh the Oklahoma bomber was of Irish descent should Ireland fear Invasion?

Utter rubbish

by Catlady Thu Apr 19, 2007 19:03

GI Joe said "By the way not all of the people here are from Ireland. I know that I AM NOT! "

Yet you presume to criticize those amongst us Irish who do not want our country to be used by US aircraft... Could this perhaps be because you feel that you and your perceived freedom to be somehow more important than ours??? That the US has the moral right to use OUR country in order to achieve it's own dubious ends even if that means they are infringing on OUR right to freedom???

Because that it what this boils down to you know. Most Irish people do not want Shannon used by the US army, despite what the government here allows. You on the other hand seem to think that the US has the right to do so despite our opinion. You also seem to think that we have no right to speak up and express our opinions, and then you have the nerve to blather on about "freedom", as though the concept actually meant anything to you apart from the freedom of the Bush regime to ride roughshod over anyone who gets in their way...

by F. Costello Thu Apr 19, 2007 22:31

It seems easy to critiscize when ones country has been protected by others since 1939. Ireland counted on British, then American Protection during the second world war. Ireland took delivery's of British Arms & equipment while supposedly neutral. Brenguns, Boyes Anti-Tank rifles, Vickers Machineguns, Hawker Hurricane fighters, Avro Ansons, Lysanders, Magisters,Vosper MTB's, etc.

Irelands so-called neutrality was never tested by a German Invasion, because British & Americans were killed to stop Fascisms spread. I've read most Nazi Espionage agents used Ireland to reach the UK, is this true?

Rineanna(Shannon) & Foynes seaplane base became major transit points for Allied War supplies guarded by the Irish Defence forces 7th & 8th Brigades

If Your Government is continuing a Policy thats been in place since the 2nd world war, when Ireland did turn a Blind eye to military aircraft using Shannon & other aerodromes, it seems the height of hypocrisy to now suddenly be horrified. If you dont want them using your landing fields ELECT representatives who will repeal the agreement, seems simple enough if you really do speak for the Majority of Irish Peoples.

by scflygirl Fri Apr 20, 2007 01:44

I'm from the US and I work for Omni. It doesn't really matter whether you're for or against the war in Iraq; the fact of the matter is that these (mostly young) men and women volunteer to take a bullet or whatever ammunition used against them in an attempt to defend the freedom of the US and of Iraq. Please don't forget that Countless countries have turned to the US when assistance has been needed - be it monetary or military. The US stands up and fights for what is right. So while you're blasting the US, remember - you may need us one day. Do you want to offend us to the point that we don't step up to the plate for you as well? I love my job...etting our troops safely to and from the middle east. And if my job requires that I get our troops safely to and from Ireland in order that they defend your country, then I will be just as proud.

by Irish Airport Worker @ Shannon - 4 million friends of America Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:24

HI Scflygirl and all other US Crews, Please note the vast majority of Irish Workers are delighted to have American Crews and their passengers visiting Shannon and Ireland in general. Please don't pay too much attention to the media as they have proven to be in the business of selling media that generates more money than media to inform on actual facts in their entirety.
The Media are all cowards and are afraid to print POSITIVE news in case their sales drop. As most people know, the media,are only able to print the negative side of all stories and will earn more crediibility when they change to relating the WHOLE TRUTH to the readers.

All the workers @ Shannon Airport and surrounding areas are delighted with American Crews, Military and Visitors pasing throu and if this was not the case, then how come no one has stood up and voiced the opposite. The Irish have shown worldwide that we are not afraid of standing up and being counted.

Please OMNI Crews and other Carriers save a few seats for the ANTI'S and transport them to Iraq and Afghanistan for a two week period to enrich their minds and then maybe they will pass on their own experiences to all and not rely on the poisoned pens of " SHIT STIRRERS" worldwide with their own hidden agendas. Good things are happening, why can't we find "in print" ?

by To all OMNI and US Carriers Thru Shannon Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:34

What 'Irish Airport Worker @ Shannon' is really saying is that he doesnt care where you guys go, who you kill or for what reason. Just keep his cash register busy with your dollars and he'll turn a blind eye.

Can't have you guys flying through Dublin or London and have his kids go hungry now can we?

by Fred Johnston Fri Apr 20, 2007 16:19 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

Why do I get a sick, numb feeling when I hear the US described as protectors of freedom?

by Darby Fri Apr 20, 2007 19:41

Maybe you feel that way because you are Sick, as in Mentally? the yanks have more graves filled with their young men in the cause of freedom across europe than Ireland does. If they wanted to, europe would have become another state easily, but they didnt did they?

was it american tanks in Budapest in 1956? or soviet

was it american tanks in Prague in 1968? or soviet

again who built a wall to keep it's subject in? america or the liberty sucking soviets socialshite republiks?

Ireland to Our shame played both ends, sucking up to the Nazi's while taking weapons from england. Only Japan & Ireland expressed Condolences upon Hitler's suicide.

by Aut Pax Aut Bellum Fri Apr 20, 2007 21:36

What are the messages the anti-war / peace movement broadcasts?

They tell Iraqis: you were better off living under Saddam’s brutal dictatorship. Peace and security was yours…as long as you did what the state said, and hopefully your daughter didn’t attract the attention of Saddam’s sons.

They tell Iraqis: you would be better off if the Americans left. Then you could be ruled by the thugs that currently set off bombs that indiscriminately kill civilians in marketplaces and mosques. What a wonderful world it will be!

They tell Iraqis: we live in a democratic republic, but that’s not really for you. You should live under a totalitarian dictatorship and be happy with the resulting “peace and security” Maybe you could have your choice of a secular or religious dictatorship.

Iraq may currently be a mess, but important moments in a nation’s history often are. The work may be hard and the desired result not always in sight. History presents past events as inevitable, but in the actual moment there were doubts; calls to quit. It takes fortitude, faith, convictions to see nations through those events. America has had such moments; our revolution, our Civil War. Was the Irish Free State worth its violence?

If you desire peace at any cost, there are plenty of people in this world whose goal in life is to eventually make you pay every cost. Do we sit and wait for those times?

As for Darfur, why wait for the Americans to do the heavy lifting? Send the Irish army down there. We will support you! In fact, we will probably have to transport you there. Neither Eire nor the EU have the capacity to move a substantial amount of men and equipment. Maybe we will save you some Euro’s and charter Omni aircraft to move your soldiers. More comfortable than a military transport, too.

by Fred Johnston Sat Apr 21, 2007 01:50 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

Walls, 'Darby', is it? I see now the US are about to build a wall around some parts of Baghdad to try to silence the Mahdi Army! Good at wall-building, the US: like the one they're building across the Mexican border and the one their client-State, Israel, is building around Gaza. Now anything else you stupidly want to say about the US and walls??

by Darby Sat Apr 21, 2007 02:41

Yes there is, firstly from the reports I've read the wall in southern america is to channel illegal border crossers from Mexico from their wholesale crossings into the states. Hardly trying to keep american citizens from fleeing into mexico, maybe you have some other information about the vast illegal american immigration to mexico? Interestingly while reading up I found that mexico treats illegals crossing it's southern borders with savagery, shooting at guatemalans even.

Recently , a Landowner and his young Daughter were arrested on his property in america by armed Mexican soldiers who crossed into the us because the landowner reported drug offences being transacted near his land on the mexican side.

Amusingly enough I can find no reports of americans shooting their citizens for crossing into mexico, canada either. Yet many reports of the old warsaw pact forces killing their citizens when they attempted to cross in czechoslovakia,east germany, etc. might you have information about the isreali's shooting isreali's crossing into palestinian areas?

Now as to Isreal, is that wall to keep isreali's in or terrorists out?

Now you were gobbing off about baghdad as well....

might I say that as someone who served in the forces for a short time at best, the idea of "Canalizing" the enemy into specific areas covered by fires is an effective way of controlling infiltration, has worked for centuries as My Sapper sergeant used to teach, he even mentioned something about Hadrians wall being an example of it.

ta for now...

by Fred Johnston Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:40 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

Your knowledge of what is happening in Gaza is either utterly biased, blind or just lacking in basic knowledge ( not good, for a 'military man' like yourself), so there's nothing worth answering in that regard; I think the Soviets in East Germany, when they built the most infamous Wall of all, would certainly have agreed with your fanatical belief in walls. Before them, there was a bit of 'canalisation' being done around Warsaw too, as I recall my history. I don't believe you ever saw a uniform in your life that wasn't on telly. No one aware of what walls really can do - and in Iraq the walls are a sign that the US has bitten off much more than it can chew - would share your sentiments.

by god Sun Apr 29, 2007 18:10

why bother trying to educate yanks? they`ve badly lost another war, (have they ever won one alone?) at home, if they do`nt end up wiping themselves out with guns, then nature will finish the job. let them build as many, and as high, walls as they want. if i was a mexican i`d be happy to see them wall off the asylum that they call the land of the free (k).